<< <i>I would like to take any confusion out of the equation here. In the most simplest of terms, are you guys saying the following: Member A buys a coin for $100 and sells it to member B for $150 immediately thereafter and that is labeled as a scam. >>
Yep, that about sums it up. Oh, don't forget that doing so is also "sleazy and/or unethical."
<< <i>I would like to take any confusion out of the equation here. In the most simplest of terms, are you guys saying the following: Member A buys a coin for $100 and sells it to member B for $150 immediately thereafter and that is labeled as a scam. >>
There is considerably more nuance to the scenario, but if you are incapable of wrapping your brain around it, and your simplification works for you, that's great.
<< <i>where is the scam here. What did anyone loose? Was there a theft? This post should not be permitted it passes judgement and brands a person a scammer without proof.
Maybe annoying , perhaps a person I would avoid to buy or sell to but scammer I do not know and can not say as a fact.
I hope the mods will remove this one sided post. This type of follow the leader grab the pitch forks post is one of the worst aspects of this forum. >>
I suppose the irony of my pitchfork picture was lost on you then.
<< <i>where is the scam here. What did anyone loose? Was there a theft? This post should not be permitted it passes judgement and brands a person a scammer without proof.
Maybe annoying , perhaps a person I would avoid to buy or sell to but scammer I do not know and can not say as a fact.
I hope the mods will remove this one sided post. This type of follow the leader grab the pitch forks post is one of the worst aspects of this forum. >>
I am going to disagree with you. A number of people, including myself, have commented that we do not believe that this is necessarily a scam.
Edit: Perhaps we can agree that he is not exactly a straight shooter. >>
oui, oui.
just be careful from whom you buy. and I do not necessarily mean forum users, since in this case you could be, in reality, be buying off another online site like eBay. as mentioned, if someone comes calling with a large inventory of everything, perhaps the WTB person should turn to google instead.
That said, I'll pay the $100 finder's fee if I can get $200 for the attempt to sell an NGC holder when a pcgs was mentioned explicitly twice.
<< <i>I am simply trying to take any drama, exaggeration, one-sided storyism, stretching, basically anything added out of the equation here and that is all. I too have been contacted by a member or two offering up something for x + y but that is listed on another's site at X and thought it was sleazy. I have in the past complained right here about those dealers who list a coin on their site for x+y and yet they don't own it or have it in their possession while it currently is listed on another dealer's site at X and they in fact own it and have it in their possession. When I complained about these dealers, and they are many of them (right here btw) I was shot down. So I am trying to figure out exactly why now it is deemed a scam and how I may have gotten it wrong prior. >>
Realone, Thanks for tossing in some algebra... Although I can't figure out what the value of X is
Next time please use two trains moving at different speeds!
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
<< <i>You shouldn't try to sell something you don't already own. >>
Isn't that exactly what a broker does? Isn't a dealer also a broker? Don't dealers do that all the time? Do you have to be a dealer to broker a deal? >>
A good broker won't try to convince me a Ngc pf70er is the same as Pcgs pr70fs that's 50% more in price. A good broker identifies as a broker and won't say "I have"
Assuming the seller is acquiring and then selling the coin legally, do the specifics of how he makes it happen really make a difference? Does anyone worry this much about how the supermarket acquires the bread or can of beans they sell?
RO, Drama can be created, or it can be defused. It all depends on the presentation.
Here is how I reinterpret the scenario.
Let's say that I am looking to buy a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it and let a few people know that I am looking for one. There is one at the BMW dealership just a few blocks away, but it is lavender with pink suede seats, and they want $45,000 for it, which is way too much. Someone who is a friend of a friend of a friend calls me because he heard that I was looking for a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it, and he knows of one for sale. My ears perk up, and I ask for the details. Well, it's lavender with pink suede seats, the VIN number matches the one at the dealer 3 blocks away, and he can cut me a deal for $47,500.
Ebay is everyone's coin dealer "just a few blocks away", but it's even closer. And everyone looking for coins knows to look there. It's not a secret. (Just between us, Heritage is not much of a secret either, but I am not going to give any more coveted information like this away in a public forum. )
<< <i>Assuming the seller is acquiring and then selling the coin legally, do the specifics of how he makes it happen really make a difference? Does anyone worry this much about how the supermarket acquires the bread or can of beans they sell? >>
I will gladly pay the requisite markup for the supermarket to get my bread and beer (I am too lazy/untalented to make them myself), the auto dealer for my car (I do not have skills or resources to manufacture my own), and my coin dealer to acquire coins for me (many of the best sources are just not available to me).
If I find a $20 bill on the ground, I will not pay the coin dealer to pick it up for me--that is one task that I am capable of handling myself.
<< <i>You shouldn't try to sell something you don't already own. >>
Isn't that exactly what a broker does? Isn't a dealer also a broker? Don't dealers do that all the time? Do you have to be a dealer to broker a deal? >>
I was just going to post the same thing and saw you did.
Over the years, I have seen individuals sell items on this board which they did not own. Each time, there have been problems with their actions. In one instance, the individual was a long time member and I ended up helping him financially in order to get out of the situation. The next time this individual had problems, he did not receive any help and is no longer with us (suicide). My point is that we need to watch for individuals like this and let others know what is going on prior to a major problem arising. Does anybody remember the guy buying silver from the pawn shop and flipping it? He ended up owing individuals on these boards and on Ebay a considerable amount of money. I have no problem with individuals flipping a coin for a profit, my problem is the effects of their actions on trusting boardmembers.
Fall 2026 National Battlefield Coin Show September 11 & 12, 2026 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. Early Bird passes Thursday September 10, 2026 from Noon to 5pm $25 each. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
<< <i>Over the years, I have seen individuals sell items on this board which they did not own. Each time, there have been problems with their actions. In one instance, the individual was a long time member and I ended up helping him financially in order to get out of the situation. The next time this individual had problems, he did not receive any help and is no longer with us (suicide). My point is that we need to watch for individuals like this and let others know what is going on prior to a major problem arising. Does anybody remember the guy buying silver from the pawn shop and flipping it? He ended up owing individuals on these boards and on Ebay a considerable amount of money. I have no problem with individuals flipping a coin for a profit, my problem is the effects of their actions on trusting boardmembers. >>
I don't disagree with one word you said as I understand your intent it so overly cautious perhaps given potential issues that could arise.
He's just "drop shipping", his model would be really slick if he could get the eBay seller to ship it straight to you. As many have stated, not really a scam, per se. His choice of words could be used a little more wisely, like "I have access to the coin you are looking for, let me know if you are interested", something along those lines.
This situation is similar to the person who buys a rare coin from a mail order dealer with a 15 days return privilege and then shops it around for a higher price and then returns it when he can't flip it for a profit. Unethical but not really a scam.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As a dealer I prefer to own the item before selling it unless it's a true consignment; the business model presented here could backfire if the middleman's source has sold the item just as the middleman sells it to someone else.
That said, the reality is that there are collectors-and even a few dealers- who either don't have the time or the inclination (or perhaps are simply too lazy) to endlessly surf the net and other venues for items they seek...so I suppose these middleman types do fill a niche of sorts. I wouldn't begrudge such individuals a profit for their efforts. Some in this hobby/business apparently feel that unless they're getting something at dead wholesale and the person selling to them is making only a pittance, it must be a scam and/or the seller has to be a sleaze. It makes me wonder how some folks do any buying at all if they're that terrified of someone (other than them, natch) making a buck...
At any rate, I think OP should reconsider his use of the term "scammer" as it applies to this situation. and the thread title. You could argue ethics perhaps, but it's not a scam unless the person took money and never intended to deliver the item(s). "Unethical" is even somewhat hard to argue; if the act of obtaining something from someone and reselling it to someone else is deemed "unethical" then anyone who ever sold something for a profit is then unethical by that same flawed standard. I also find it unfortunate that this person's ID was outed... though their presentation of the items to OP was embellished somewhat, it wasn't a scam IMO and not worthy of defaming them in a public forum like this. Not cool.
<< <i>Let's say that I am looking to buy a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it and let a few people know that I am looking for one. There is one at the BMW dealership just a few blocks away, but it is lavender with pink suede seats, and they want $45,000 for it, which is way too much. Someone who is a friend of a friend of a friend calls me because he heard that I was looking for a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it, and he knows of one for sale. My ears perk up, and I ask for the details. Well, it's lavender with pink suede seats, the VIN number matches the one at the dealer 3 blocks away, and he can cut me a deal for $47,500. >>
'Knowing of one for sale" is not the same as having one for sale. The difference falls under the definition of a scam - a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people. Per the OP, the seller claimed he "owned the coin" that he obviously did not.
If this someone responds to your BST post, check eBay and other sites for the item. You will find it cheaper there than the reseller's marked up re-sold item that you could find cheaper on eBay yourself.
<< <i>I may be the odd man out but I don't see the scam... because he offered a coin to you and tried to make a profit ? that's a scam ? he may have several of them, or access to several of them, sorry, I don't see the scam. did he take your money and not deliver the product ? did he promise anything that wasn't delivered ? or perhaps "scam" isn't the tem you should be using >>
Comments
<< <i>I would like to take any confusion out of the equation here. In the most simplest of terms, are you guys saying the following:
Member A buys a coin for $100 and sells it to member B for $150 immediately thereafter and that is labeled as a scam. >>
Yep, that about sums it up.
Oh, don't forget that doing so is also "sleazy and/or unethical."
(face/palm)
<< <i>I would like to take any confusion out of the equation here. In the most simplest of terms, are you guys saying the following:
Member A buys a coin for $100 and sells it to member B for $150 immediately thereafter and that is labeled as a scam. >>
There is considerably more nuance to the scenario, but if you are incapable of wrapping your brain around it, and your simplification works for you, that's great.
<< <i>where is the scam here. What did anyone loose? Was there a theft? This post should not be permitted it passes judgement and brands a person a scammer without proof.
Maybe annoying , perhaps a person I would avoid to buy or sell to but scammer I do not know and can not say as a fact.
I hope the mods will remove this one sided post. This type of follow the leader grab the pitch forks post is one of the worst aspects of this forum. >>
I suppose the irony of my pitchfork picture was lost on you then.
<< <i>
<< <i>where is the scam here. What did anyone loose? Was there a theft? This post should not be permitted it passes judgement and brands a person a scammer without proof.
Maybe annoying , perhaps a person I would avoid to buy or sell to but scammer I do not know and can not say as a fact.
I hope the mods will remove this one sided post. This type of follow the leader grab the pitch forks post is one of the worst aspects of this forum. >>
I am going to disagree with you. A number of people, including myself, have commented that we do not believe that this is necessarily a scam.
Edit: Perhaps we can agree that he is not exactly a straight shooter.
oui, oui.
just be careful from whom you buy. and I do not necessarily mean forum users, since in this case you could be, in reality, be buying off another online site like eBay.
That said, I'll pay the $100 finder's fee if I can get $200 for the attempt to sell an NGC holder when a pcgs was mentioned explicitly twice.
<< <i>I am simply trying to take any drama, exaggeration, one-sided storyism, stretching, basically anything added out of the equation here and that is all.
I too have been contacted by a member or two offering up something for x + y but that is listed on another's site at X and thought it was sleazy. I have in the past complained right here about those dealers who list a coin on their site for x+y and yet they don't own it or have it in their possession while it currently is listed on another dealer's site at X and they in fact own it and have it in their possession. When I complained about these dealers, and they are many of them (right here btw) I was shot down. So I am trying to figure out exactly why now it is deemed a scam and how I may have gotten it wrong prior. >>
Realone, Thanks for tossing in some algebra... Although I can't figure out what the value of X is
Next time please use two trains moving at different speeds!
always two sides of a story, we have one side but are missing the other side of the issue involved so basically the whole scammer issue is lopsided
Now for sale: Silver Graded coins
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bVXfxXKosyE7ByGq7
<< <i>
<< <i>You shouldn't try to sell something you don't already own. >>
Isn't that exactly what a broker does? Isn't a dealer also a broker? Don't dealers do that all the time? Do you have to be a dealer to broker a deal? >>
A good broker won't try to convince me a Ngc pf70er is the same as Pcgs pr70fs that's 50% more in price.
A good broker identifies as a broker and won't say "I have"
Drama can be created, or it can be defused. It all depends on the presentation.
Here is how I reinterpret the scenario.
Let's say that I am looking to buy a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it and let a few people know that I am looking for one. There is one at the BMW dealership just a few blocks away, but it is lavender with pink suede seats, and they want $45,000 for it, which is way too much. Someone who is a friend of a friend of a friend calls me because he heard that I was looking for a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it, and he knows of one for sale. My ears perk up, and I ask for the details. Well, it's lavender with pink suede seats, the VIN number matches the one at the dealer 3 blocks away, and he can cut me a deal for $47,500.
Ebay is everyone's coin dealer "just a few blocks away", but it's even closer. And everyone looking for coins knows to look there. It's not a secret. (Just between us, Heritage is not much of a secret either, but I am not going to give any more coveted information like this away in a public forum.
<< <i>Assuming the seller is acquiring and then selling the coin legally, do the specifics of how he makes it happen really make a difference? Does anyone worry this much about how the supermarket acquires the bread or can of beans they sell? >>
I will gladly pay the requisite markup for the supermarket to get my bread and beer (I am too lazy/untalented to make them myself), the auto dealer for my car (I do not have skills or resources to manufacture my own), and my coin dealer to acquire coins for me (many of the best sources are just not available to me).
If I find a $20 bill on the ground, I will not pay the coin dealer to pick it up for me--that is one task that I am capable of handling myself.
<< <i>
<< <i>You shouldn't try to sell something you don't already own. >>
Isn't that exactly what a broker does? Isn't a dealer also a broker? Don't dealers do that all the time? Do you have to be a dealer to broker a deal? >>
I was just going to post the same thing and saw you did.
<< <i>Over the years, I have seen individuals sell items on this board which they did not own. Each time, there have been problems with their actions. In one instance, the individual was a long time member and I ended up helping him financially in order to get out of the situation. The next time this individual had problems, he did not receive any help and is no longer with us (suicide). My point is that we need to watch for individuals like this and let others know what is going on prior to a major problem arising. Does anybody remember the guy buying silver from the pawn shop and flipping it? He ended up owing individuals on these boards and on Ebay a considerable amount of money. I have no problem with individuals flipping a coin for a profit, my problem is the effects of their actions on trusting boardmembers. >>
I don't disagree with one word you said as I understand your intent it so overly cautious perhaps given potential issues that could arise.
As many have stated, not really a scam, per se. His choice of words could be used a little more wisely, like "I have access to the coin you are looking for, let me know if you are interested", something along those lines.
It's all in how the coin was presented to the OP.
If the so-called 'flipper' said or implied "I have this coin" = problem.
If he said "I can get you this coin" = not a problem.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That said, the reality is that there are collectors-and even a few dealers- who either don't have the time or the inclination (or perhaps are simply too lazy) to endlessly surf the net and other venues for items they seek...so I suppose these middleman types do fill a niche of sorts. I wouldn't begrudge such individuals a profit for their efforts. Some in this hobby/business apparently feel that unless they're getting something at dead wholesale and the person selling to them is making only a pittance, it must be a scam and/or the seller has to be a sleaze. It makes me wonder how some folks do any buying at all if they're that terrified of someone (other than them, natch) making a buck...
At any rate, I think OP should reconsider his use of the term "scammer" as it applies to this situation. and the thread title. You could argue ethics perhaps, but it's not a scam unless the person took money and never intended to deliver the item(s). "Unethical" is even somewhat hard to argue; if the act of obtaining something from someone and reselling it to someone else is deemed "unethical" then anyone who ever sold something for a profit is then unethical by that same flawed standard. I also find it unfortunate that this person's ID was outed... though their presentation of the items to OP was embellished somewhat, it wasn't a scam IMO and not worthy of defaming them in a public forum like this. Not cool.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Let's say that I am looking to buy a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it and let a few people know that I am looking for one. There is one at the BMW dealership just a few blocks away, but it is lavender with pink suede seats, and they want $45,000 for it, which is way too much. Someone who is a friend of a friend of a friend calls me because he heard that I was looking for a 2011 BMW X3 with 20,000 miles on it, and he knows of one for sale. My ears perk up, and I ask for the details. Well, it's lavender with pink suede seats, the VIN number matches the one at the dealer 3 blocks away, and he can cut me a deal for $47,500. >>
'Knowing of one for sale" is not the same as having one for sale. The difference falls under the definition of a scam - a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people. Per the OP, the seller claimed he "owned the coin" that he obviously did not.
Velocity, Not Valuation Defines A Bubble.
<< <i>Seanthecoincollector >>
...isn't this the guy/girl who just started a thread claiming he was robbed??? Oy vey
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>Seanthecoincollector >>
...isn't this the guy/girl who just started a thread claiming he was robbed??? Oy vey
Erik >>
Yes!
Read this thread carefully!
<< <i>I may be the odd man out but I don't see the scam... because he offered a coin to you and tried to make a profit ? that's a scam ? he may have several of them, or access to several of them, sorry, I don't see the scam. did he take your money and not deliver the product ? did he promise anything that wasn't delivered ? or perhaps "scam" isn't the tem you should be using >>