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The value of diminished value for collectors
crypto79
Posts: 8,623 ✭
Awhile ago I won an auction on a whim while bidding late at night while up with a baby, I put in a feeler bid and I guess I was the only one feeling it and won the coin cheap for about 1k. Now with it in hand it is a really appealing slider with a single attractive chop on the rev. The coin is dinged for some wispy wipe marks on the obv only and futher dinged into an AU details holder dispite have nearly full Frost & cartwheel and the look of MS62 coin (or old fashioned au58). It was the hat-trick of devaluation with the cleaning, tough grading and chop mark it sent a coin that really is a 5figure coin to not really retail marketable.
While I know coins like this are not the best investments it really goes to show how collectors can enrich their collections with coins that they other wise wouldn't have access to by choosing carefully selected genuine coins. One really doesn't come across 73cc's with that look often and they are super pricey when you do. Just sharing a story of one collector who doesn't condem problem coins as long as they are priced accodingly.
While I know coins like this are not the best investments it really goes to show how collectors can enrich their collections with coins that they other wise wouldn't have access to by choosing carefully selected genuine coins. One really doesn't come across 73cc's with that look often and they are super pricey when you do. Just sharing a story of one collector who doesn't condem problem coins as long as they are priced accodingly.
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Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>My experience with problem coins is that they will always disappoint when it comes time to sell. >>
It goes back to what one pays, some of my biggest profits were taken on problem coins bought cheap and traded to dealers on upgrade examples
But it goes back to the point that if one takes away the profit motive of only "problem free" examples. Collectors can find cool coins that enrich their collection if not some unrealized profit that may or may it realize down the road anyway. Most collectors don't make a ton of profit away so I don't see the point of constraining one collection to an ideal. Besides I am not saying one should only buy these and forgo market preferred graded coins.
That said, grading is only a shorthand notation for what a coin should market for. We can argue endlessly about PQ, unattractive toning, plus grades, stickers, or whatever, but at the end of the day....... I have some coins that aren't terribly strong for grade, but they're graded appropriately. As long as I realized that and didn't pay a PQ price, what is the problem? Judging from the ones I've sold so far I think I'll come out of them OK in the end.
The big issue is when one pays full retail (or full retail plus a premium) for a coin that doesn't deserve it. That guy will be disappointed at sale time. There are plenty of dealers who make a living working in detail-graded, raw, and "problem" coins. They seem to do OK at sale time. Everything has a price.......
<< <i>I think Crypto has a point here. I think we forget sometimes the big picture. Detail coins generally aren't for me, but then for the stuff I collect there are plenty of coins in graded holders available to go around.
That said, grading is only a shorthand notation for what a coin should market for. We can argue endlessly about PQ, unattractive toning, plus grades, stickers, or whatever, but at the end of the day....... I have some coins that aren't terribly strong for grade, but they're graded appropriately. As long as I realized that and didn't pay a PQ price, what is the problem? Judging from the ones I've sold so far I think I'll come out of them OK in the end.
The big issue is when one pays full retail (or full retail plus a premium) for a coin that doesn't deserve it. That guy will be disappointed at sale time. There are plenty of dealers who make a living working in detail-graded, raw, and "problem" coins. They seem to do OK at sale time. Everything has a price....... >>
Well said, The core of the reality is most collector coins are problem coins, it's just that not all problems are created equal. Are a few wipe lines that are mostly toned over on a high grade condition rarity & key date coin really worse than a tarnished coin that has been rubbed down to the point lots of original detail is missing and none of the luster is present?
This 73cc cost just about the exact same. Is it not a coin with problems too?
A set of golf clubs or a ski boat or a Porsche generally offer lousy returns, but we buy them and enjoy them anyway.
Not that the investment potential can be ignored in numismatics, but if you like a coin, buy it and proudly share it on this forum and with your friends.
<< <i>Well said, The core of the reality is most collector coins are problem coins, it's just that not all problems are created equal. Are a few wipe lines that are mostly toned over on a high grade condition rarity & key date coin really worse than a tarnished coin that has been rubbed down to the point lots of original detail is missing and none of the luster is present?
This 73cc cost just about the exact same. Is it not a coin with problems too? >>
Good thread and posts. It's good to see the cost comparable example as well. A while back I had passed on a R8 SCD that was a problem coin but still attractive IMO. I still think about that one some times.
The middle and late dates are generally not too hard to find decent, but the early dates and classic heads are a whole
different story. You better be willing to live with some flaws, or have deep pockets. Just don't overpay,
and 'err' on the low side when determining a price.
<< <i>I have more of a problem with obvious "details" coins in graded holders. Look on eBay at mid-grade Barbers, you can almost always find graded key date Barbers that should never have made it into a normal graded slab. Values ran up on how difficult these were to get in a slab and every sub-standard one that now makes it impacts the value of the rest. >>
You are not kidding there. There is becoming an over abundance of dipped out,midgrade coins that would not grade before. The sad part is the ebay sellers who take pictures that make them look like the nice original grey that most of us like...then they arrive a shiney dipped blast white.
<< <i>My experience with problem coins is that they will always disappoint when it comes time to sell. >>
Did the person selling to you make out okay? The person buying from you? Does the issue boil down to you paying too much?
At some price paid, most problem coins can be moved for a profit. This is true for most coins, from the best of the best, to problem coins. On the other end, at some price paid, the best of the best coins, can also disappoint when it comes time to sell. Problem coins tend to have a much smaller potential pool of buyers. Dealers tend to bid very low on problem coins because of this. Some of the same dealers ask near the price of no-problem specimens. If a person pays that full asking price, a financial loss is almost sure to occur.
The trick is to avoid paying too much for the problem coin. Because of the thin market, and individualized nature of each problem coin, finding that too much price line is tricky.
<< <i>Individuals that have problems with less than perfect coins, are profit motivated - either wannabe dealers or dealers..... Collectors do not require perfection, nice to have, sure, but the coin is the objective. Cheers, RickO >>
Not always . . . for example, some with deep pockets may deliberately overpay to obtain more "perfect" coins for their registry sets. Their chief goal is to have a high-ranking set rather than making a profit.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Individuals that have problems with less than perfect coins, are profit motivated - either wannabe dealers or dealers..... Collectors do not require perfection, nice to have, sure, but the coin is the objective. Cheers, RickO >>
I'm usually on the same page with you, RickO, but not this time. The absolute pickiest folks I've seen have been experienced collectors. Not saying that's good or bad, just my observation on many occasions. In turn, this probably motivates many dealers who cater to them to be almost as picky.
Now, when it comes to profit motivation, yes, I've seen dealers blowing minor problems out of proportion in order to get a coin at a
steep discount.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Hoard the keys
<< <i>Individuals that have problems with less than perfect coins, are profit motivated - either wannabe dealers or dealers..... Collectors do not require perfection, nice to have, sure, but the coin is the objective. Cheers, RickO >>
Well said Ricko, I agree. I only strive for a nice collection and every coin I own tells a story that is part of the narrative I have chosen for my set to represent. Granted some do it more attractively than others.
<< <i>Awhile ago I won an auction on a whim while bidding late at night while up with a baby, I put in a feeler bid and I guess I was the only one feeling it and won the coin cheap for about 1k. Now with it in hand it is a really appealing slider with a single attractive chop on the rev. The coin is dinged for some wispy wipe marks on the obv only and futher dinged into an AU details holder dispite have nearly full Frost & cartwheel and the look of MS62 coin (or old fashioned au58). It was the hat-trick of devaluation with the cleaning, tough grading and chop mark it sent a coin that really is a 5figure coin to not really retail marketable.
While I know coins like this are not the best investments it really goes to show how collectors can enrich their collections with coins that they other wise wouldn't have access to by choosing carefully selected genuine coins. One really doesn't come across 73cc's with that look often and they are super pricey when you do. Just sharing a story of one collector who doesn't condem problem coins as long as they are priced accodingly.
It's an attractive coin no doubt! I don't mind the chop, and don't particularly mind the wipe lines. Not crazy about the black stain/spotting in the lower obverse. I assume that can't be removed, or, if it could be, what would remain would be a worse-off view.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have more of a problem with obvious "details" coins in graded holders. Look on eBay at mid-grade Barbers, you can almost always find graded key date Barbers that should never have made it into a normal graded slab. Values ran up on how difficult these were to get in a slab and every sub-standard one that now makes it impacts the value of the rest. >>
You are not kidding there. There is becoming an over abundance of dipped out,midgrade coins that would not grade before. The sad part is the ebay sellers who take pictures that make them look like the nice original grey that most of us like...then they arrive a shiney dipped blast white.
I have noticed this to be true from time to time, and it's not always intentional I would wager. There's a 20 cent piece I have that's kind of a pale gray, not bad and not great either. But when I take a pic of it, no matter what I'm doing with the lighting, it comes off not as pale gray but a deep, rich brown-gray tone that would be just terrific, if it represented reality.