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Would this 1796 Large Cent slab problem free?

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  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't know you picture taking skills but if it looks like these pics I would say no.

    bobimage

    Can you re-shoot or does it look like this in hand?
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a close call, but I think you'll get a Genuine for "environmental damage" on that one. Sometimes they are generous to early copper with surface problems, but it seems to apply more so to 1793 cents for some reason. In any event, a '96 Cap in this grade is hard to find without major damage, so it's a very collectible piece.

    I find there is little need to slab early copper, unless it's a high grade type piece. I feel like a Randall Hoard cent in MS65 needs to be slabbed to realize its full market potential. However, a coin like a 1796 Cap that's of interest in any grade doesn't need to be slabbed.



  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    The issue is the pososity and what their threshold is. There really is no correct answer to my question because with EAC there are worse coins in slabs and better ones have been bagged. I think its a nice coin.

    imageimage
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Surfaces look like they may have been smoothed...
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
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  • bestmrbestmr Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭
    I'm going with altered surface. It looks a bit off for some reason.
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  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Surfaces look like they may have been smoothed... >>



    Yikes. What do you see that is indicative of that?
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't realize that slabbed meant Problem Free.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭
    Looks a little porous, which is worrisome. I don't think the TPG would give it a numerical grade. image
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know. Probably, but maybe not.
    I'll tell you what though- that would look stunningly perfect in my Library of Coins type set!

    peacockcoins

  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    This is a high res closeup of the surface with contrast raised. Is anything about this surface unnatural?

    image
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not think it will slab due to micro corrosion, but I also think it has been smoothed. So, no way, IMO. Still, it has a pleasing look, so enjoy it for what it is.

    Tom

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I do not think it will slab due to micro corrosion, but I also think it has been smoothed. So, no way, IMO. Still, it has a pleasing look, so enjoy it for what it is. >>



    image
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

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  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    Micro porosity I can handle. Altered surface, no way! Its going back. This forum is such a treasure of knowledgeable people willing to help. Its much appreciated.
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ED. Though it's really very nice corrosion image
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this the coin in question? It appears that the seller wanted to be very specific about the coin not being enhanced or altered in any way.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, there are a lot more people here, much more knowledgeable than me who haven't offered an opinion yet but I think it's a nice coin, especially for what it is. I don't see any smoothing or else the rest of the metal would look strange, and it doesn't. I don't see the look of any recoloring either. I do see some probable environmental damage on some aged old copper, and my guess is that it wouldn't grade.
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  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is this the coin in question? It appears that the seller wanted to be very specific about the coin not being enhanced or altered in any way. >>



    Thats the one. His pic looks much better than the coin does in hand though.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Okay, there are a lot more people here, much more knowledgeable than me who haven't offered an opinion yet but I think it's a nice coin, especially for what it is. I don't see any smoothing or else the rest of the metal would look strange, and it doesn't. I don't see the look of any recoloring either. I do see some probable environmental damage on some aged old copper, and my guess is that it wouldn't grade. >>



    Ankur is a copper collector and I put much value in his opinion. I personally do not understand smoothing very well. Its something that has only recently been appearing on slabs and I do not know what the indicators are.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    This is from coin facts. This coin is a VF30. And has obvious environmental damage. So, its kind of a crap shoot.
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Surfaces look like they may have been smoothed... >>



    Yikes. What do you see that is indicative of that? >>


    Displacement of metal, especially the high points often is an indication of whizzing/buffing/highly polishing.
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    bestmr

    I think that it looks "off" because the porosity is waaaaay too uniform, at least to my way of thinking and looking at a lot of LC's
  • I was watching this coin on ebay but decided not to bid because it looked like, in those scans, some of the hair and eye details had been strengthened. I don't see evidence of the re-engraving so much in the new photos, but the details still look a little "off." Anybody else see this? And yes, the surfaces were likely smoothed.

    If it were just the porosity, I think it's 50/50 whether the coin would slab, but with that combined with the funky surfaces/details, I don't see this straight-grading.
  • The neck area looks to have been tooled or damaged and then smoothed, but maybe not. If not that, I would say that it's too porous and will not grade.
  • raysrays Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it is impossible to say without seeing the coin in hand, and even then, in borderline cases, it may end up in a graded holder someday after multiple attempts.

    There are a lot more 1796 Liberty caps around than 1796 Draped Busts, so I believe PCGS is a little less lenient on the liberty caps.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say that getting this coin into a graded slab is a throw of the dice. There are pieces that are not as nice as this in graded slabs, and there are pieces that are better than this that are in body bags or "genuine" slabs. My record with getting early copper coins into slabs has been mediocre. That's why I only by early copper in slabs IF I WANT IT IN A SLAB. Getting it done yourself is a minefield.

    I think that that this piece has had some corrosion removed from it, but when it comes to early copper that is not unusual. Copper is the most reactive of all of the classic coinage metals (gold silver and copper), the early pieces were very prone to environmental damage. In fact in the well circulated grades, it's almost a given.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they'd call questionable color. The interior of the R and A on the reverse shouldn't be bright like that. But that's looking at a picture..I'm thinking this issue should be a darker color in hand.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To put this into perspective, here is a nice 1794 large cent that rated a body bag years ago.

    imageimage

    You can scrub old silver and gold coins to within an inch of their lives, and they will still get a grade; but if you have an early copper coin that might had anything done to it, it won't grade.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Slight but not impossible that it would slab....still not a bad example of the date though....both hairstyles are tough to
    find nice.
    Me, I know my example was burnished, no need to bother submitting it, but it was priced accordingly, and does have a Tom
    Reynolds and Rod Burress pedigree, FWIW:

    image

    image
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  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Heres mine
    Pcgs vg8 CAC

    image
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • raysrays Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And mine, currently in a PCGS VF35 holder:

    image

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