Does Secure Plus holder add value?

Catbert

When I've add a badly scratched holder, I've tended to have them reholdered into Secure Plus. These have been coins valued at around 1.5-2.5K.

Do you use this service and what value does it represent to you?

Weiss

Given the choice between the two, all else equal, which would you choose?

dbcoin

As a buyer, if the coin was a high value coin (your upper range qualifies), and/or toned, I would feel more comfortable with the Secure Plus scan and certification.

DennisH

<< <i>Given the choice between the two, all else equal, which would you choose? >>

There's the rub; they aren't equal in the OP's scenario. The reholder fee for putting a coin into a Secure Plus holder is higher than for a regular holder.

To answer the question posed by the OP's thread title... I am skeptical that it does, due to the strong confidence that the coin market has for the PCGS brand in general.

Catbert

<< <i>As a buyer, if the coin was a high value coin (your upper range qualifies), and/or toned, I would feel more comfortable with the Secure Plus scan and certification. >>



This is my take as well, but I'm also curious how the market perceives the difference in terms of value, if any.

ricko

I am not sure of the added value, however, I would prefer the Secure plus....just do not know what premium might be.... Cheers, RickO

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>

<< <i>As a buyer, if the coin was a high value coin (your upper range qualifies), and/or toned, I would feel more comfortable with the Secure Plus scan and certification. >>



This is my take as well, but I'm also curious how the market perceives the difference in terms of value, if any. >>


in the way of plastic, the highest values i've seen for coins being near equal are ones in a pcgs sp holder with green/gold cac vs all others

tons of exceptions and nuance, as with everything

*disclaimer: my opinion is based on public-accessable auction results and private sales of slabbed/raw coins may further skew above opinion further.
.

astrorat

For my collecting interests, Secure Plus adds no value.

Patches

Given a choice between a secure plus holder and a coin of equal weight not in one, I choose the one not secure plus. There's just something about buying a coin that's in a known database if it were to be cracked out I don't like. I prefer the anonyminity factor.

Steve27

I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate.

MsMorrisine

I don't see a value add right now at least not necessarily

SP is good and needs to be the standard. In the future, while upgrade potential might be in question, the fingerprint of legitimacy over fakes will be useful. (I see a future with computer cut, die made super counterfeits)

Catbert

<< <i>I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate. >>



OK, but then also would it help retain the proper value of said coin in relation to actual grade on the holder?

coinbuf

For myself personaly I would/will not pay a prem for an SP holdered coin; in the area I collect I have not seen enough SP holdered coins to see any impact on pricing. For those who pay crazy high moon and above for wildly toned coins and/or gold coins I can see where it could have some value added.

amwldcoin

<< <i>I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate. >>



LOL! I just upgraded my 04-S Barber Half at Baltimore under reconsideration. It went from AU-53 Secure Plus to AU-55.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>

<< <i>I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate. >>



LOL! I just upgraded my 04-S Barber Half at Baltimore under reconsideration. It went from AU-53 Secure Plus to AU-55. >>



I was just going to add that
1) if it is a high, high end coin that it is likely to be recognized whether SP nor not.
2) for the commoners, resubmitting under non-SP would likely not have the coin remembered unless pcgs were "watching" your submissions.

as for ability to prevent downgrade, or even on the upgrade side, ...

PCGS maintains that grades can still change, up or down, on secure plus coins.



Also, there was, and may still be, a misconception that SP coins can be cracked and the grade will still be honored. This is totally false because -- supposed that cracked coin is dropped or scratched or tooled .... a cracked SP is back to being raw -- although PCGS fingerprinter should still recognize it.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>

<< <i>I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate. >>



OK, but then also would it help retain the proper value of said coin in relation to actual grade on the holder? >>



not necessarily,

no matter the service level, overgrades and undergrades are still possible

lkeigwin

Until the methods of SP become universal (at least at PCGS) I don't any value added. Cracked resubmissions can bypass the scanning and sniffing with the regular service.

I have heard collectors say "it will help if the coin is stolen". But only (1) if a resubmission goes through SP and (2) PCGS has some way to tag the original scan as one from a stolen coin, and (3) does just that before a resubmission is made.

Others have said, "I like that it detects AT". It doesn't. The Sniffer simply checks for banned substances. AT judgments are done by graders.

I've heard, "It give me peace of mind to know that no banned substances were used on the coin". Okay, I get that. So the possibility of a BB is a little higher with SP, simply because someone applied a harmless coin conserver like Blue Ribbon.

I'd like SP to succeed. I'd like all coins to be digitally scanned. And I'd like all coins to be photographed. Until real value is added to SP I don't see any reason to use it.
Lance.

BAJJERFAN

PCGS does do SP scans on coins if they feel it's warranted even if it isn't requested. If you report a coin stolen, PCGS might be able to watch for it if it is resubmitted raw, esp. if it has something about it that is unique like color, marks, etc.

lkeigwin

Perhaps, if it is an especially valuable, rare or unusual coin. They are grading 8,000/day. So I have my doubts they would be watching for a somewhat ordinary stolen coin.
Lance.

mozin

I like the look of the SecurePlus label better. Don't think I would pay extra for it though.

Walkerfan

Are we talking about the Secure holder or the actual plus grade? I believe that the Secure holder adds little value but the PLUS symbol itself can add a lot of value IF YOU AGREE WITH IT. Most plus graded coins I DON'T agree with but I own ONE that I do and I didn't even pay a premium for it----I paid (retail) base price, so it was a pretty decent deal for me. I at least thought it was fair and the coin was real PQ for the grade.

Catbert

Walkerfan - the thread topic is about the PCGS Secure service and its designation on slabs. I think when it was first launched, it was called Secure Plus. Perhaps they changed the name due to potential confusion when the plus grading was introduced. Plus grades are not the intent for this thread.

PCGS weblink address says secureplus, but site lists service as PCGSs Secure

Walkerfan

<< <i>Walkerfan - the thread topic is about the PCGS Secure service and its designation on slabs. I think when it was first launched, it was called Secure Plus. Perhaps they changed the name due to potential confusion when the plus grading was introduced. Plus grades are not the intent for this thread.

PCGS weblink address says secureplus, but site lists service as PCGSs Secure >>



Thanks for clarifying. As I said, I like the Secure slabs but, as a buyer on the open market, I wouldn't pay extra for a coin that was already housed in one.

Steve27

<< <i>

<< <i>I would think Secure plus would reduce the value, because no one is going to buy it as a potential upgrade candidate. >>



OK, but then also would it help retain the proper value of said coin in relation to actual grade on the holder? >>




It all depends on what the holder says. I'm convinced a lot of seasoned submitters never use Secure Plus out of fear a coin will come back with a no-grade "cleaned" designation. I know there have been resubmission of "cleaned" coins, which made it into standard holders the second time around.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Perhaps, if it is an especially valuable, rare or unusual coin. They are grading 8,000/day. So I have my doubts they would be watching for a somewhat ordinary stolen coin.
Lance. >>



Agreed for widgets, but if they do a SP scan on a $10K coin they might check to see if it's already in the database. That being said, I have no idea how PCGS deals with coins that have been reported to them as stolen. Ones best bet is to ensure the security of their coins. At best, SP is of limited value for theft recovery.

lusterlover

<< <i>

It all depends on what the holder says. I'm convinced a lot of seasoned submitters never use Secure Plus out of fear a coin will come back with a no-grade "cleaned" designation. I know there have been resubmission of "cleaned" coins, which made it into standard holders the second time around. >>



Aren't you in essence stating the value of SP. It is less likely that a messed with coin will be in that holder.

lkeigwin

It's important to remember exactly what SP offers. There's the scan, its storage, and sniffing for banned substances.

So if you're worried about nose grease, putty, coin conservers, or heaven help us, urine, then yes, those messed-with problems will be detected.

The usual problems...AT, cleaning, tooling...are not something SP ID's. So no, it is not less likely a coin in a SP holder has been messed with.
Lance.

Walkerfan

<< <i>It's important to remember exactly what SP offers. There's the scan, its storage, and sniffing for banned substances.

So if you're worried about nose grease, putty, coin conservers, or heaven help us, urine, then yes, those messed-with problems will be detected.

The usual problems...AT, cleaning, tooling...are not something SP ID's. So no, it is not less likely a coin in a SP holder has been messed with.
Lance. >>



Lance is right----I have seen blatantly dipped coins in SP slabs.

Coinflip

Yes , why wouldnt it add value? It definitely should add more value than a green bean or a first strike , at least in my opinion.

BryceM

SP - a few advantages, but hard to justify for most of what I collect. Some coins have a borderline acceptable look that some might find more palatable in a SP holder. Other coins that have been bb'd a few times might have a better chance at grading via the SP service. Also, in case of theft it would be very handy to have the SP images/fingerprint of the coin. Does anyone know if all submissions are screened against a list of stolen coins? I'm guessing no. There are a few downsides. Once a coin is in a SP holder the upgrade game is less enticing for those who play such games. Loss of appeal to a potential buyer is a negative IMO.

Overall though, it depends. We don't all collect the same stuff at the same level and what makes sense for one person might be ridiculous for someone else.

Regarding those who are concerned about finding "blatantly dipped" coins in an SP holder........

A) What precisely do people think happens during the new restoration service?
There is no universal consensus that dipping constitutes doctoring, or is even in the least bit undesirable. In fact, I'd argue that the TPGs employ it rather frequently in cases of coins "turning in the holder". I'd also argue that some coins warrant a dip as a conservation measure, even without factoring in eye appeal.
C) Does a proper dip even leave any residue that can be detected by the sniffer? I'm guessing the dip solution can be 100% removed with a soak in a suitable solvent (acetone).

MrEureka

Yes, it adds value. But if you're submitting hundreds or thousands of coins a year (like most dealers do), you think a little harder about spending an extra $10 a coin. Especially if you've never had a customer reject a coin because it is not SP'd.