Finest known?

BAJJERFAN

The 1889 Morgan dollar has a reported mintage figure of 21,726,000 coins. If you were a Morgan collector 80 years ago and without benefit of the internet, how would you go about laying your hands on the finest example from such a large number of coins?

tradedollarnut

Contact the Clapps. But 80 years ago the finest would be considered a proof example... so maybe contact John Story Jenks instead

Sonorandesertrat

John Story Jenks died in 1923 (90 years ago). Go to an East Coast dealer like Thomas Elder.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Contact the Clapps. But 80 years ago the finest would be considered a proof example... so maybe contact John Story Jenks instead >>



So how would JSJ have gotten it? How were the coins sorted through and the nicest ones kept? I wasn't asking about a dealer having it. I was interested in the process by which these millions of coins were distilled down into a handful of the best ones.

roadrunner

<< <i>

<< <i>Contact the Clapps. But 80 years ago the finest would be considered a proof example... so maybe contact John Story Jenks instead >>



So how would JSJ have gotten it? How were the coins sorted through and the nicest ones kept? I wasn't asking about a dealer having it. I was interested in the process by which these millions of coins were distilled down into a handful of the best ones. >>



You'd have to think that any proofs still in original wrappers by 1923 were basically still in superb original gem condition. By the time the JSJ coins came to market in the past 50 years, there were very few untouched original
coins that hadn't been molested in some manner. Condition by attrition. If someone wanted a single near perfect 1889 dollar back then, they'd probably have had to sift through an original bag shortly after issue. It would be
a miracle if more than a couple of people ever did that. I don't know how Clapp did it, but more than likely he (or a friend) sifted through a pile of coins at the mint/bank windows until a suitable gem example was found. He had
50-100X more unc coins available to him than we do today. His job was a lot easier. Finding the single finest available 1889 mint state Morgan dollar during Clapp's time was an impossible feat. There was always one nicer. But,
after attrition of most 1889 dollars over the following 100-120 years, it was much easier to sift through nearly all the remaining BU bags and rolls to find the best specimen....something impossible back in 1889-1919. Still, you
could have looked through say a dozen 1889 bags back then (12,000 coins) and found an MS66+ quality coin to cherry pick. Whether you'd have ever found an MS67 is another story as strike would have eliminated a lot of
otherwise near flawless coins (PCGS pops show 3 MS67's and a single MS68.....such coins would have been hard to find in 1889 as well). For now, the single PCGS MS68 1889 is the finest graded at that service.

TireKicker

Depends on how much time and money I had in 1933. If I had an abundance of both, I would start by searching in bags and rolls.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Depends on how much time and money I had in 1933. If I had an abundance of both, I would start by searching in bags and rolls. >>



It wouldn't need to be exactly 80 years ago either. About what time did the Morgans start to get sorted through looking for better examples? Did people have other reasons for sorting thru bags and just kept the extra nice ones and put them aside or were they seeking extra nice ones specifically?

ricko

Just a process of 'search and sort' until the best of the best is found.... Cheers, RickO

ColonelJessup

A dealer bought a original bag of '89's from a Christie's sale back in the early 2000's. IIRC Jeff Garrett bought 5 bags of 22's and 23's at the same sale ($14 per coin or somesuch). It was a cluster f@@K with bargains galore, totally mismanaged by the red-headed head of the coin department at that time. . .

If you were a Morgan collector 80 years ago (any of the three of them) you couldn't have cared less

Pittman melt? How many millions of coins? .

1964 US Treasury releases (a few dates like 98-O, 99-O, O3-O, much tougher at that time than a 1893-S) were destroyed as rarities, but...) .. but 99% went directly from Sub-Treasury doors to private citizens who sometimes made three-times-a-day round trips to the smelter.

Continental Bank, LaVere Redfield, ...... Virtually all these coins were bullion crap 35 years ago except MUCH better dates and were melted up the wazoo or delivered in bag quantities to private hoarders. Elsewise, they were marketed as promotional material, etc.

A thousand bags or more.

A "nice original" bag was expected (by today's standards) to be pretty solid 62's, dingy or white. Leon and David Hendrickson's Silvertowne (gonzo major market makers in this type of "item") advertised full-page or two each week in pre-electronic CoinWorld. One little corner of the selling ad had a want-ad. "Professional numismatist wanted. First requirement: a strong back."

A minority of the Redfield 95-S (all blazing) in Paramount/Redfield MS65 slabs were less than MS63.

An up-state NY collector named Bill Lauer used to set up at a few shows. He had an entire display case stacked with flipped-up 95-S and a separate case for some of the special ones. His traveling buddy George Mosher had an MS64++ 93-S I screwed up and foolishly did not buy at $200K. Jay Miller bawled me out later. .
.

"Professional numismatist wanted. First requirement: a strong back"