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18/17 Buffalo opinion please?link to coin added

This is the only pic provided to me so I am looking for some opinions if they can even be given of the date. Not concerned if treated, cleaned, dipped just trying to verify the date. Thank you ahead of time for your opinions.( the seller is stating it is authentic )


image

edited the best I could
image
link I finally found the listing and this is the link thanks all for the help

Comments

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just simply don't think so.

    peacockcoins

  • Thats what I was thinking it looks tampered with I can see where a 7 could be but the centers of the 8 do not appear to be distorted enough.
  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is not the 18/7 D.
    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 3-5, 2025 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    it is really strong and obvious on an example in that condition
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nope.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No. Both holes in the 8 would have a big diagonal flat side.
    The lower hole in yours is clearly round.

    If you do a google image search for 1918/7-d buffalo nickel,
    you will find many images of the real thing.
    Very easy to look up.
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭
    Negatory! image Better luck next time.
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep looking, but it won't appear on that one.
    Let's be very specific about what we are looking for , so that more may discover what so few of us ever find.

    image
    took this shot from the rebook. I guess it's a form of plagiarism with the smartphone.
    From the 66th edition of the Red Book.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is the only pic provided to me so I am looking for some opinions if they can even be given of the date. Not concerned if treated, cleaned, dipped just trying to verify the date. Thank you ahead of time for your opinions.( the seller is stating it is authentic )


    image

    edited the best I could
    image >>


    and maybe…. just maybe there are hints of the 7. But it has to match , from my experiences.
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭
    You must also look for the other diagnostics, the die crack which runs to the jaw, and the D mintmark on the reverse. Here's an awesome pic posted by MF a long time ago:

    image
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say no.... Cheers, RickO
  • here is the link all and thanks for the help I guess I will report it now.
    Text
  • kevinstangkevinstang Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭
    Looking at the mintmark position, it may be legit. Date when treated doesn't always show up the best, but I think I see the flat top 8 with points of 7 and the upper loop filled like it should. The coin in the auction has just had the date treated and the head of the buffalo to show "full horn"- not my cup of tea. I've probably found a dozen 18/17 over the years and either just restored the date or entire coin, I don't believe any every had the die crack across cheek really visible in this grade. I always look for mint mark position when searching dateless coins with the top of D just ligned up with end of E and the bottom of D kicked over to the right making mintmark crooked.

    Edited to add:

    His price is way out there, I think the best I ever did was maybe 150 to 175 for such a treated coin.
  • Hello everybody. I am the seller of this coin and I have dug up this old account in order to respond on the matter. It wasn't a big deal, but for whatever reason the buyer, the individual who started this thread, has been repeatedly insulting and berating me about this coin. I've never seen anything like his behavior before from somebody who hasn't even bought the coin.

    In any event, I felt like I should get my say. I am personally 100% guaranteeing the authenticity of this coin and my listing has a return guarantee and a special privilege of full extended refund if buyer wants to send the coin in for authenticy. I will even refund the TPG costs if it were to come back as fake.

    I am not some Chinese couterfitter. I am a normal collector who sells on ebay as part of my hobby. My account has over 1000 feedback rating and only 99.8% positive. I have dealt with buffalos for a very long time, am an ANA member, and have actually published on the matter (local coin club).

    I will go over the main diagnostics of this coin. Everybody should keep in mind that this is a restored coin (which was completely disclosed and discussed in the listing), so the details will always seam a bit blurry. The diagonal bar of the 7 will create two half moon circles within the '8'. This is mostly evident in circle positioning rather than shape at very low grades or restored. If one compares to a regular '8', which clearly shows one circle on top of the other, you will notice the upper loop to the left of the lower loop. Maybe the pictures aren't the best, but it is very obvious in hand. On the reverse, you will first notice the the reverse has been rotated at what has been estimated at about 15 degrees. This coin is an exact match. There was also only one reverse die used which has a fairly particular shape and position of the mintmark 'D'. I won't go into detail as "kevinstang" has already brought this up, but the coin is an exact match. In my experience the die break disappears from original coins at right around original VF grades so obviously that would be missing.

    I have bought and sold many overdates before. Both originals and restored coins and both on ebay and off ebay. I would vouch my entire reputation that this coin is genuine and I have certified examples in my possession to compare.

    The buyer, along with the insults, has reported my listing. Customer service told me that they would remove it because saying it was "restored" and not "acid-dated" implies it is a replica. This is absurd of course, but actually confirms that they agree it is a 1918/7-D. I suppose they didn't bother to check the 100's of other listings, including more of my own, that say the same thing or nothing at all.

    I have also offered to make a wager with the buyer in question confirming the authenticity. His response was that I have to send him the coin for free and that he would only trust Rick Snow or Fred Wineburg to look at the coin closely. I suppose that is just a way of trying to get out of a deep hole he's dug for himself.

    I would welcome any responses and any personal messages from anyone if they would like to discuss this further. Contrary to what the OP may say, I'm actually a very nice normal collector who would love to discuss this or anything else. Sorry for the long message, but I had a lot to say.
  • Just so we are clear I did not report this coin as of yet. Iwas waiting on more responses from those in the know on this particular over date. If anyone care to I can forward them the e-mails to see what I said as it mainly concerns the quality of the photos provided and I even offered to buy him a camera oh so rude and mean of me . I did ask to see the coin in hand and still would befor making a wager as an uninformed wager is an automatic loss. I asked to have Mr. Snow look at it for us as I am going to his shop in early December and the seller is in California. I never asked for the coin to be shiped any where but if I were going to I would ship it to Mr. Snow so I could see it in person and his qualifications are above question. If there are further questions please PM me and I will provide anything I can. Thank you for the help as always.


  • << <i>Hello everybody. I am the seller of this coin and I have dug up this old account in order to respond on the matter. It wasn't a big deal, but for whatever reason the buyer, the individual who started this thread, has been repeatedly insulting and berating me about this coin. I've never seen anything like his behavior before from somebody who hasn't even bought the coin.

    In any event, I felt like I should get my say. I am personally 100% guaranteeing the authenticity of this coin and my listing has a return guarantee and a special privilege of full extended refund if buyer wants to send the coin in for authenticy. I will even refund the TPG costs if it were to come back as fake.

    I am not some Chinese couterfitter. I am a normal collector who sells on ebay as part of my hobby. My account has over 1000 feedback rating and only 99.8% positive. I have dealt with buffalos for a very long time, am an ANA member, and have actually published on the matter (local coin club).

    I will go over the main diagnostics of this coin. Everybody should keep in mind that this is a restored coin (which was completely disclosed and discussed in the listing), so the details will always seam a bit blurry. The diagonal bar of the 7 will create two half moon circles within the '8'. This is mostly evident in circle positioning rather than shape at very low grades or restored. If one compares to a regular '8', which clearly shows one circle on top of the other, you will notice the upper loop to the left of the lower loop. Maybe the pictures aren't the best, but it is very obvious in hand. On the reverse, you will first notice the the reverse has been rotated at what has been estimated at about 15 degrees. This coin is an exact match. There was also only one reverse die used which has a fairly particular shape and position of the mintmark 'D'. I won't go into detail as "kevinstang" has already brought this up, but the coin is an exact match. In my experience the die break disappears from original coins at right around original VF grades so obviously that would be missing.

    I have bought and sold many overdates before. Both originals and restored coins and both on ebay and off ebay. I would vouch my entire reputation that this coin is genuine and I have certified examples in my possession to compare.

    The buyer, along with the insults, has reported my listing. Customer service told me that they would remove it because saying it was "restored" and not "acid-dated" implies it is a replica. This is absurd of course, but actually confirms that they agree it is a 1918/7-D. I suppose they didn't bother to check the 100's of other listings, including more of my own, that say the same thing or nothing at all.

    I have also offered to make a wager with the buyer in question confirming the authenticity. His response was that I have to send him the coin for free and that he would only trust Rick Snow or Fred Wineburg to look at the coin closely. I suppose that is just a way of trying to get out of a deep hole he's dug for himself.

    I would welcome any responses and any personal messages from anyone if they would like to discuss this further. Contrary to what the OP may say, I'm actually a very nice normal collector who would love to discuss this or anything else. Sorry for the long message, but I had a lot to say. >>



    Thanks for the confirmation. I could see it as a 18/7, some diagnostics look like they can be there.

    Not very good on lostincoins.
  • That is why I asked for opinions and why I asked the seller for better photos of the date. I do not see what is wrong with that. The coin has been altered and I could not tell if the alteration could hev been done to hide tooling. I am also woundering if a normal 1918 Buffalo Nickel can have a similar rotated reverse so I am getting mine out to look or is it only 1918/17 etc...
  • This is a G4 Buffalo I was using as a comparison.
    image
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,077 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Has It been nuked now? Appears so?

    Need to be careful confronting people with less than clear pictures.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • I am the seller of this coin and it is listed here
    listed here

    Please see my post earlier in this thread for my opinions on the coin or just read the listing as some of it is repeated.

    I'm glad to see some posters actually realizing that this coin is authentic.

    Thanks everybody and keep the comments coming.
  • I also have a number of pictures from some of my other restored overdates for comparison. Pics will be small for size, but are good enough to decipher. I then have provided a composite picture of all the dates. Sorry for the double post
    1st) sold for $430
    2nd) sold for $600
    3rd) sold for $400 and certified by NGC
    4th) the overdate in question in this thred
    5th) and 6th) just two other restored overdates I currently have
    7th picture) the composite of dates


    slideshow
  • CoinflipCoinflip Posts: 845 ✭✭✭
    DEFINITELY NOT THE 18/7
    SMILEFORSOMECHANGE LLC
    RAD#306

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image


    << <i>I also have a number of pictures from some of my other restored overdates for comparison. Pics will be small for size, but are good enough to decipher. I then have provided a composite picture of all the dates. Sorry for the double post
    1st) sold for $430
    2nd) sold for $600
    3rd) sold for $400 and certified by NGC
    4th) the overdate in question in this thred
    5th) and 6th) just two other restored overdates I currently have >>


    I agree that #3 (top right corner) is a 1918/7.
    #2 is a "possible" (I'd lean towards not an overdate). Need a better image.
    The others are not (judging from the images provided). The bottom loop of the 8 is round in them.
    image

    On ebay there is a potential honesty problem, because the seller controls the image quality.
    A seller may choose to provide a lower quality image which suggests possibilities,
    rather than provide a quality image which rules out the possible overdate.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,042 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>DEFINITELY NOT THE 18/7 >>



    image I have got to say unless the seller provides "BETTER" images of this over date I will have to say NO WAY!!!! Just no way to tell. If the seller really expects folks to take a chance on a coin like this at the price the seller is asking "ungraded" he/she should provide much better images. Or, get it graded.....CHD
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Hello everybody

    I am still so amazed that so many people do not believe the coin is genuine, despite what I see as obvious diagnostics and the fact that my record (ANA and ebay) shows no red flags. Several people have pointed out that the pictures are simply not good enough to tell. I can understand that point. Regardless, I have just pulled my own auction and I will submit this coin, along with the two others overdates I currently have, to PCGS for authentication.

    I will probably be able to ship them off later this week and after a couple weeks I will be able to post the results. I will post results regardless of what they are. I always believe everyone has room to grow and learn. It is my opinion that many people here do not fully understand what a restored overdate is supposed to look like and what diagnostics remain and what are missing. It should be kept in mind that I have dealt with many of these before and have already had a coin certified in the past that looked about the same to the naked eye as the one in this thread. I'm not angry with anyone over their opinion. We will find out one way or the other. If I am indeed wrong, I will admit my mistake. If I am able to post pictures of several slabs in a few weeks, I would expect some apologies.

    Expect pending updates.
  • no apologies are needed for honest opinions as they are just that, opinions.

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