I'm getting a few more in the mail over the next few days. Here's one I like and its starting to take on some color.
I'm planning on submitting in the next few month's
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Once you start slabbing and grading counterfeits, it becomes difficult to claim that you are an authentication and grading service anymore. It would create the appearance that you’d slab anything for the right price.
@cameonut2011 said:
Once you start slabbing and grading counterfeits, it becomes difficult to claim that you are an authentication and grading service anymore. It would create the appearance that you’d slab anything for the right price.
These are not counterfeits of any known coins. PCGS slabs Lesher silver dollars. Are these counterfeits?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The court case only classified some Norfed issues as counterfeit. Others were not, which is why many of the tokens/medals that were seized in the raid were eventually returned to claimants.
@cameonut2011 said:
Once you start slabbing and grading counterfeits, it becomes difficult to claim that you are an authentication and grading service anymore. It would create the appearance that you’d slab anything for the right price.
These are not counterfeits of any known coins. PCGS slabs Lesher silver dollars. Are these counterfeits?
There is a court ruling declaring them to be counterfeits. Once you open the flood gates, the flood will ensue. As for Lesher coinage, I’m not familiar enough with it to opine on it.
@coinsarefun said:
Well, I went ahead and purchased this 1998. Curious.....I received a wooden box and it says first first year of issue
Recovered 2018. I did read that these were taken and then given back by the government. Then a counter stamp
was applied under the date to show it was okay to own. Not sure if this was a sales ploy but either way its a low mintage
of 150 and cool wooden box.
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I know that this post is a year old but here goes...
The MA ("Monetary Architect") counterstamp was applied to coins that had been recovered by claimants who sent them to Bernard von Nothaus with a payment of $10 per counterstamp.
The fancy box was obviously made by someone who had enough of the recovered tokens to make it worthwhile.
My recovered Liberty Dollars were copper varieties and I had a half dozen counterstamped. The copper LDs cost me $1 each originally and then $10 each to have counterstamped, but I had it done to preserve their history.
I know that this post is a year old but here goes...
The MA ("Monetary Architect") counterstamp was applied to coins that had been recovered by claimants who sent them to Bernard von Nothaus with a payment of $10 per counterstamp.
The fancy box was obviously made by someone who had enough of the recovered tokens to make it worthwhile.
My recovered Liberty Dollars were copper varieties and I had a half dozen counterstamped. The copper LDs cost me $1 each originally and then $10 each to have counterstamped, but I had it done to preserve their history.
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Thanks, recall easing somewhere here on the forum that several people had counterstamps.
So is there anyway to know how many have a counterstamp and which initials they are?
I know that this post is a year old but here goes...
The MA ("Monetary Architect") counterstamp was applied to coins that had been recovered by claimants who sent them to Bernard von Nothaus with a payment of $10 per counterstamp.
The fancy box was obviously made by someone who had enough of the recovered tokens to make it worthwhile.
My recovered Liberty Dollars were copper varieties and I had a half dozen counterstamped. The copper LDs cost me $1 each originally and then $10 each to have counterstamped, but I had it done to preserve their history.
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Thanks, recall easing somewhere here on the forum that several people had counterstamps.
So is there anyway to know how many have a counterstamp and which initials they are?
There were multiple counterstamps done over the years by Norfed. I am not sure if exact mintages are known for all of them.
For example, in the short timeframe between the preparation of federal criminal charges and Bernard von Nothaus's arrest, they used a handcuffs counterstamp on a couple silver issues.
The MA counterstamp you pictured was for any issues that were recovered from the feds after the court case. Individual owners had to file to be a claimant in the case to try to get their Liberty Dollars returned. Those would have been LDs that were ordered but not yet shipped, LDs that were purchased but held in the vaults of the minter. Holders of unexpired paper LDs could also file a claim to get bullion.
I was a claimant for 20 copper LDs. I think I was only one who was chasing recovered copper. I did it just for the experience.
Hawaii tidbits from a US Government court findings document.
... In November 2007, the U.S. Government executed seizure warrants on entities associated with Bernard von Nothaus, including the Liberty Dollar Organization (“LDO”), Headquarters in Evansville, Indiana (also known as the NORFED Fulfillment Office) and Sunshine Minting Inc “Sunshine Minting”) in Coeur ’Alene Idaho. The FBI seized approximately $3.5 million worth of assets, including Liberty Dollars, raw silver, coining dyes and other miscellaneous items...
...In December 2014, the Court rendered its findings relevant to “counterfeit” coins as it relates Liberty Dollar coins. Specifically, the Court identified specific coins types not designated as “counterfeit” or “contra ban per se”:
1. Liberty Dollar coins bearing competing insignia (imprinting representing at least two different origins) such as both Liberty and the Hawaii Dala.
2. Liberty Dollar coins with characteristics of multiple von Nothaus entities. For example, coins with the Liberty insignia on one side and Hawaii Dala on the other side.
Back to the future. This book lists and catalogs most all of the medals by the Royal Hawaiian Mint, including the newer Dala, original Norfed's, and some of the newer medals. PCGS relies on a reference book to grade medals, and so now there is a greater chance these absolutely beautiful and rare medals could be graded. I have an extensive collection of these and PCGS would probably make thousands, just from my submissions alone, if a Registry Set was started.
It took John Dean's book on modern National Commemoratives of the United States Mint in 2012 to get PCGS on board with a Registry Set for them.
I believe it is valuable to document these well designed and struck Liberty medals for history. The older dala need to have a good reference book as well.
@Goldminers said:
Back to the future. This book lists and catalogs most all of the medals by the Royal Hawaiian Mint, including the newer Dala, original Norfed's, and some of the newer medals. PCGS relies on a reference book to grade medals, and so now there is a greater chance these absolutely beautiful and rare medals could be graded. I have an extensive collection of these and PCGS would probably make thousands, just from my submissions alone, if a Registry Set was started.
It took John Dean's book on modern National Commemoratives of the United States Mint in 2012 to get PCGS on board with a Registry Set for them.
I believe it is valuable to document these well designed and struck Liberty medals for history. The older dala need to have a good reference book as well.
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This is fantastic! Where is the best place to order one?
I’ve been trying to get an appointment with the powers that be here for almost 2 years.
But, that for the GMM small Liberty dollars. While they grade some it’s a minute part.
But, this may be a stroke of luck and genius. Like GMM, Moonlight mint and Norfed there
Is a very limited amount they will grade. This book may have the answers.
Btw @Goldminers I’ve looked for some nice examples and these can be quite expensive. I’m guessing
because of a limited mintages. But, they sure are beautiful
@coinsarefun said:
Btw @Goldminers I’ve looked for some nice examples and these can be quite expensive. I’m guessing
because of a limited mintages. But, they sure are beautiful
Yes, some of the Liberty medals are indeed extremely rare. The 2007 Euro (only 20 minted w/o numbers), the New York Double date, Evansville, are nearly impossible to find and have sold for $1,000-$2,500. Most of the SMI (States) had only 500-1,000 minted. Some of those also have various hallmarks, counter-stamps, and a few in rare numbered sets.
And yes, David Gillie had the medal made that you posted above with his restaurant on the reverse.
I am checking book availability for you on the Liberty's. The books are scarce.
As far as the Hawaiian Dala, which are exceptional, Dr. Darryl's site and his documentation is the best out there.
I have around 150-200 different Dala examples from 1977 to 2004, prior to the 2007 Liberty designs. The gold layered ones from 2007 are extremely rare probably less than 20 were done like the 3 shown below. Many of the other Dala have mintages only in the hundreds, some even less like the 1992 salute gold above.
This is a similar gold certificate by E.C. Harwood in 1987. He also had gold and silver "coins" although I have never seen any. Could not find much information about them but I assume since I have a very nice certificate they must not be worth much.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
This is fantastic! Where is the best place to order one?
I’ve been trying to get an appointment with the powers that be here for almost 2 years.
But, that for the GMM small Liberty dollars. While they grade some it’s a minute part.
But, this may be a stroke of luck and genius. Like GMM, Moonlight mint and Norfed there
Is a very limited amount they will grade. This book may have the answers.
The book above is a First Edition, which was a bit rough on the photos. There is a new Second Edition that I will ask about getting an extra copy for you. Could take me a couple weeks, and I will send you a PM if things work out.
The book above is a First Edition, which was a bit rough on the photos. There is a new Second Edition that I will ask about getting an extra copy for you. Could take me a couple weeks, and I will send you a PM if things work out.
@Icollecteverything said:
This is a similar gold certificate by E.C. Harwood in 1987. He also had gold and silver "coins" although I have never seen any. Could not find much information about them but I assume since I have a very nice certificate they must not be worth much.
I don't think I have seen any "coins" related to this, but based on the dollar sign made out of a "G" instead of an "S", these bars are probably related (I know of silver 1-oz, 10-oz, and 100-oz sizes): designscomputed.com/coin_pics/gold_standard_silver_bar.jpg
@Icollecteverything said:
This is a similar gold certificate by E.C. Harwood in 1987. He also had gold and silver "coins" although I have never seen any. Could not find much information about them but I assume since I have a very nice certificate they must not be worth much.
Pic removed
I don't think I have seen any "coins" related to this, but based on the dollar sign made out of a "G" instead of an "S", these bars are probably related (I know of silver 1-oz, 10-oz, and 100-oz sizes):
>
Pic removed
I have a 1/20th OZ $G.05 gold coin dated 1984 with a portrait of Nicholas Deak - says something about "sound money" on it, I'll image it later and post here...
It currently sits in my Orwellian barbarous relic collection
There were a lot of various designs of these "gold standard coins". Supposedly some were struck in silver and platinum, too, but I have not seen them. Usually the smaller denominations were less fine, like 18 karat, or as on the note above .80378. Below are some early versions that sold at Apmex at one time.
Other gold standard versions were of Milton Friedman, Adam Smith, James Blanchard, Elizabeth Currier, Jerome Smith in the 1982-1986 range. There are some Currier's one tenth troy on eBay linked below with photos and more detail. I prefer collecting the Norfed and Liberty Dala as the quality is excellent and the medals were usually .999 fine, but these others are also an interesting piece of numismatic history.
Pre-NORFED issues by Bernard von NotHaus, currently unlisted in Hawaiian regional collector books. However, listed in the Royal Hawaiian Mint database.
@DrDarryl said:
Pre-NORFED issues by Bernard von NotHaus, currently unlisted in Hawaiian regional collector books. However, listed in the Royal Hawaiian Mint database.
There are also silver and platinum versions of those 1992 salutes.
No PCGS shouldn’t certify counterfeit coins, and yes there was a legal adjudication declaring the coins counterfeit and convicting the creator of a felony.
Even though there is a visible group of collectors that openly collect counterfeits and some prolific counterfeiters have followers (including some historic ones), it looks silly and cheapens the brand of any service that slabs them IMHO.
Judge Voorhees makes it very clear that many of the Liberty Dollar specie do not qualify as counterfeit. The first concrete statement confirming this fact is found at the bottom of page 15.
Judge Voorhees goes on to specify which pieces are clearly NOT counterfeit on page 18.
The legal department of PCGS should make the call.
My interest is purely with the items associated with the text "Hawaii Dala" (Royal Hawaiian Mint), which are not deemed as counterfeit.
Many of the Liberty Dollars have been cataloged by Krause Publication under "World Coins - United States".
I recently picked this one up and a rather good price too. 2009 Liberty Norfed Copper TEA PARTY
While I do not believe this is a low mintage copper one I did find out and interesting fact. When the TEAPARTY copper showed up shortly after July 4th, 2009, I was informed that there were three different ones. Upon investigating, I discovered that it was a reference to the rotational ratio of obverse to reverse once again. I discovered that there are many more than three. There were 15 different easily discerned angles in the 40 pieces I had. Pictured below is the five most drastic. This was caused by the reverse die not being rotationally locked in the press, so they can be at any angle
I realize that some TPG's certify things that are not coins.
That said, a reminder that the title of the thread is wrong, and these are NOT "coins."
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
I'm getting a few more in the mail over the next few days. Here's one I like and its starting to take on some color.
I'm planning on submitting in the next few month's
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Sharing my past research on the Royal Hawaiian Mint and NORFED design.
Very nice @DrDarryl !
This one just sold for $268.55 on May 24, 2021!
eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203459521788?
Photos by: shrc2012
Zoins,
Yes, the 1/20 oz. The seller has been selling a few on eBay.
The 1/10 oz is rarer with a mintage of 20.
More about this and related issues: https://thehawaiiananumismatist.com/tag/norfed/
Another one came today. Is this the same Gillies Coney Island Restaurant in Michigan?
http://www.gilliesconeyisland.com/
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Once you start slabbing and grading counterfeits, it becomes difficult to claim that you are an authentication and grading service anymore. It would create the appearance that you’d slab anything for the right price.
These are not counterfeits of any known coins. PCGS slabs Lesher silver dollars. Are these counterfeits?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The court case only classified some Norfed issues as counterfeit. Others were not, which is why many of the tokens/medals that were seized in the raid were eventually returned to claimants.
There is a court ruling declaring them to be counterfeits. Once you open the flood gates, the flood will ensue. As for Lesher coinage, I’m not familiar enough with it to opine on it.
I know that this post is a year old but here goes...
The MA ("Monetary Architect") counterstamp was applied to coins that had been recovered by claimants who sent them to Bernard von Nothaus with a payment of $10 per counterstamp.
The fancy box was obviously made by someone who had enough of the recovered tokens to make it worthwhile.
My recovered Liberty Dollars were copper varieties and I had a half dozen counterstamped. The copper LDs cost me $1 each originally and then $10 each to have counterstamped, but I had it done to preserve their history.
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Thanks, recall easing somewhere here on the forum that several people had counterstamps.
So is there anyway to know how many have a counterstamp and which initials they are?
I have found one website that gives mintages and rough recent sold prices
https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/one-ounce-silver-series
And it gives links to another if you want to buy some.
But, nothing mentions the 1998 Shelter System one that were recovered and counterstamped.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I just found on that website this that talks about it but not exactly the one.
https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/specially-marked-pieces
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
There were multiple counterstamps done over the years by Norfed. I am not sure if exact mintages are known for all of them.
For example, in the short timeframe between the preparation of federal criminal charges and Bernard von Nothaus's arrest, they used a handcuffs counterstamp on a couple silver issues.
The MA counterstamp you pictured was for any issues that were recovered from the feds after the court case. Individual owners had to file to be a claimant in the case to try to get their Liberty Dollars returned. Those would have been LDs that were ordered but not yet shipped, LDs that were purchased but held in the vaults of the minter. Holders of unexpired paper LDs could also file a claim to get bullion.
I was a claimant for 20 copper LDs. I think I was only one who was chasing recovered copper. I did it just for the experience.
The recovered 1998 NORFED shelter LDs with MA hallmark are still available for purchase (also the Pattern LDs obverse). https://thelibertydollar.com/1998-liberty-dollar-hallmarked-with-ma.html
I personally did order from this website. The book was out of print at the time and BVN did write me a personal note and sent me a money order refund.
I collect the "Hawaiianized" Liberty Dollars :https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/hawaii-dalas
Seems like still has a strong connection with the Royal Hawaiian Mint.
I'd love to know more about the history of the Royal Hawaiian Mint and the Royal connection.
Thanks for the link. I may pick up one or two.is there any mintages known of each
Ones offered on that site somewhere?
How do we know there aren’t a few hundred left. If that’s the case than prices may not be reasonable
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Hawaii tidbits from a US Government court findings document.
No Royal connection. He set-up shop in Hawaii in 1974. More background connection between RHM and LDO via BVN.
libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/1166043540.pdf
Back to the future. This book lists and catalogs most all of the medals by the Royal Hawaiian Mint, including the newer Dala, original Norfed's, and some of the newer medals. PCGS relies on a reference book to grade medals, and so now there is a greater chance these absolutely beautiful and rare medals could be graded. I have an extensive collection of these and PCGS would probably make thousands, just from my submissions alone, if a Registry Set was started.
It took John Dean's book on modern National Commemoratives of the United States Mint in 2012 to get PCGS on board with a Registry Set for them.
I believe it is valuable to document these well designed and struck Liberty medals for history. The older dala need to have a good reference book as well.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Attached is a Word file I edited from my records to give you some of the RHM history.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
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This is fantastic! Where is the best place to order one?
I’ve been trying to get an appointment with the powers that be here for almost 2 years.
But, that for the GMM small Liberty dollars. While they grade some it’s a minute part.
But, this may be a stroke of luck and genius. Like GMM, Moonlight mint and Norfed there
Is a very limited amount they will grade. This book may have the answers.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Btw @Goldminers I’ve looked for some nice examples and these can be quite expensive. I’m guessing
because of a limited mintages. But, they sure are beautiful
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Yes, some of the Liberty medals are indeed extremely rare. The 2007 Euro (only 20 minted w/o numbers), the New York Double date, Evansville, are nearly impossible to find and have sold for $1,000-$2,500. Most of the SMI (States) had only 500-1,000 minted. Some of those also have various hallmarks, counter-stamps, and a few in rare numbered sets.
And yes, David Gillie had the medal made that you posted above with his restaurant on the reverse.
I am checking book availability for you on the Liberty's. The books are scarce.
As far as the Hawaiian Dala, which are exceptional, Dr. Darryl's site and his documentation is the best out there.
I have around 150-200 different Dala examples from 1977 to 2004, prior to the 2007 Liberty designs. The gold layered ones from 2007 are extremely rare probably less than 20 were done like the 3 shown below. Many of the other Dala have mintages only in the hundreds, some even less like the 1992 salute gold above.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
My little accumulation of norfed.
This is a similar gold certificate by E.C. Harwood in 1987. He also had gold and silver "coins" although I have never seen any. Could not find much information about them but I assume since I have a very nice certificate they must not be worth much.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
Here are a couple other Norfed examples:
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
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That is Uber cool
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
The book above is a First Edition, which was a bit rough on the photos. There is a new Second Edition that I will ask about getting an extra copy for you. Could take me a couple weeks, and I will send you a PM if things work out.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
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Sounds great!
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
PCGS Currency graded these notes. Does the new PCGS service grade them?
A recent email from BVN.
@Goldminers thanks for the updated book and net $1000 gold note.
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Now I need a once ounce gold but hate paying the big premiums
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I don't think I have seen any "coins" related to this, but based on the dollar sign made out of a "G" instead of an "S", these bars are probably related (I know of silver 1-oz, 10-oz, and 100-oz sizes):
designscomputed.com/coin_pics/gold_standard_silver_bar.jpg
Pic removed
>
Pic removed
I have a 1/20th OZ $G.05 gold coin dated 1984 with a portrait of Nicholas Deak - says something about "sound money" on it, I'll image it later and post here...
It currently sits in my Orwellian barbarous relic collection
It's all about what the people want...
There were a lot of various designs of these "gold standard coins". Supposedly some were struck in silver and platinum, too, but I have not seen them. Usually the smaller denominations were less fine, like 18 karat, or as on the note above .80378. Below are some early versions that sold at Apmex at one time.
Other gold standard versions were of Milton Friedman, Adam Smith, James Blanchard, Elizabeth Currier, Jerome Smith in the 1982-1986 range. There are some Currier's one tenth troy on eBay linked below with photos and more detail. I prefer collecting the Norfed and Liberty Dala as the quality is excellent and the medals were usually .999 fine, but these others are also an interesting piece of numismatic history.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114796965077?hash=item1aba6eacd5:g:jKMAAOSwnK5glOrY
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Nice to see Presidents on gold coins too!
Should the US Mint follow?
Excuse the cell phone pics, but this is the 1/20th G.05 I have dated 1984.
Back to the OP, I would love to see PCGS grade and encapsulate NORFED dollars.
I am in the middle of reading Bernards book posted above and it’s fascinating!
It's all about what the people want...
Pre-NORFED issues by Bernard von NotHaus, currently unlisted in Hawaiian regional collector books. However, listed in the Royal Hawaiian Mint database.
There are also silver and platinum versions of those 1992 salutes.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Platinum mintage is 3 (1/10 oz). Did not see anything in Wafs in Gold Boots (RHM database) for silver.
There are also salutes just like the medals in the photos above, in both silver and gold, that state Hawaii, instead of USA on the obverse.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
No PCGS shouldn’t certify counterfeit coins, and yes there was a legal adjudication declaring the coins counterfeit and convicting the creator of a felony.
Even though there is a visible group of collectors that openly collect counterfeits and some prolific counterfeiters have followers (including some historic ones), it looks silly and cheapens the brand of any service that slabs them IMHO.
Long read/interpretation for the legal department of PCGS.
https://gata.org/files/VonNotHausForfeitureOrder-12-2-2014.pdf
Judge Voorhees makes it very clear that many of the Liberty Dollar specie do not qualify as counterfeit. The first concrete statement confirming this fact is found at the bottom of page 15.
Judge Voorhees goes on to specify which pieces are clearly NOT counterfeit on page 18.
The legal department of PCGS should make the call.
My interest is purely with the items associated with the text "Hawaii Dala" (Royal Hawaiian Mint), which are not deemed as counterfeit.
Many of the Liberty Dollars have been cataloged by Krause Publication under "World Coins - United States".
An example:
https://ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/united-states-10-liberty-dollars-x-201-1998-cuid-1075971-duid-1633923
Source:
https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/the-court-decision-whats-counterfeit-and-whats-not
Returned liberty dollars.
https://coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/federal-government-to-return-millions-in-liberty-dollars-.html
https://coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/returned-liberty-dollars-being-hallmarked.html
Becoming a cypto-currency.
https://coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/liberty-dollar-becomes-silver-backed-cryptocurrency.html
I’ve had this for many years but when I Google the name nothing much comes up.
Does anyone know who this person was?
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I don't, but I if the email address no longer works, I would reach out to the people at:
Liberty Dollar Encyclopedia
https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/
I recently picked this one up and a rather good price too.
2009 Liberty Norfed Copper TEA PARTY
While I do not believe this is a low mintage copper one I did find out and interesting fact.
When the TEAPARTY copper showed up shortly after July 4th, 2009, I was informed that there were three different ones. Upon investigating, I discovered that it was a reference to the rotational ratio of obverse to reverse once again. I discovered that there are many more than three. There were 15 different easily discerned angles in the 40 pieces I had. Pictured below is the five most drastic. This was caused by the reverse die not being rotationally locked in the press, so they can be at any angle
Website link:
https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/gold-copper-platinum
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Mine is pretty much medal struck
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I realize that some TPG's certify things that are not coins.
That said, a reminder that the title of the thread is wrong, and these are NOT "coins."