Does or should PCGS certify Liberty Dollar / NORFED coins from Bernard Von NotHaus?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 1, 2019 2:42AM in U.S. Coin Forum
If so, this could be an interesting development for the hobby.

The reason I ask is because PCGS does certify Liberty Dollar bills from Von NotHaus:



Comments

  • I'm aware the question was from 2013. Six years later I believe the Numismatic Society is prime for moving forward on Grading NORFED Liberty Dollars. There are many Designs. High Quality, they range from hard to find to extreamly RARE, you can build sets and the hunt for individual raritys will bring the interest and desire for all ages to get excited in Numismatics again. They sell on several websites. I've been saying NORFED's have been the greatest hidden Treasure of the Numismatic Society. I'm willing to help move this forward since I personally have graded thousands of NORFED Liberty Dollars.
    PLEASE take this serious. I believe most collectors would pay a premium to have them graded by PCGS. As for now ANACS is the only choice.
    I personally back this move by posting my full name.
    Robert A. Haire
    Owner of the 360 Edge Viewing Optics
    I am a TRUE Lover of NORFED Liberty Dollars.
    Anyone who would like to work with me on making this possible, please contact me at:
    [email protected]

  • rickoricko Posts: 71,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fatcatbobcat....Welcome aboard.... I do not have any NORFED dollars myself, but certainly agree they should be graded. Cheers, RickO

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 13,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Had to Google for pix. Bullion.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Had to Google for pix. Bullion.

    PCGS certifies a lot of bullion
    So this could be an argument to slab them.

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not trying to sound sarcastic, but if there is a demand and PCGS can turn a profit, then I don't see why they shouldn't slab them.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 37,337 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS slabs Lesher Dollars so there is a precedent for slabbing privately issued bullion coins. I see no reason not to slab them.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are numismatic history just like other "coins" that have come before them, the Lesher Dollars probably being the most famous.

    There are enough of the LDs that the value probably wouldn't rise much above bullion value for most issues, at least not for many years to come.

    There is the added complication that some of the Liberty Dollar designs were declared to be illegal counterfeits in the court case in which Bernard von Nothaus was convicted.

    And don't forget - in addition to silver there were also a few gold and several copper issues.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Private minted bullion not to mention I believe these coins were deemed illegal by the US gooberment. Why on earth would a company such as PCGS want to support this type of illegal activity?

  • keetskeets Posts: 22,159 ✭✭✭✭✭

    there are plenty of other TPG's that I'm sure could be persuaded to grade these, why not just go there to get your silver rounds encapsulated??

    --- George Carlin RIP, he'd have a lot of fresh material if he was alive today!!
  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not all LDs were declared illegal - only some.

    I was in the class of claimants who got some of their confiscated LDs back from the feds.

  • Bernard von NotHaus never spent a day in jail. In the end he spent 60 days house arrest. The Government was made to give all Liberty Dollars back to each owner and investors. NORFED's are and have always been legal to owen, buy, sell and trade. The secret service never band them. That was fake news used to have them removed off E-bay. It didn't last. There now for sale on several sites. To say PCGS or NGC would not grade them because there bullion is crazy. They been grading Silver Eagles from day one. I also believe the Liberty Dollars are extreamly valuable. I've seen and have proof they have sold for $100's and even $1,000's
    When you have mintage numbers of 10,000 to an average of 1,000 and some were minted less then 100. That makes them extremely RARE! That equals BIG $. I personally would pay a premium for grading do to there value.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 13,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Me to.

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 850 ✭✭✭✭

    I got in the game with them a short while before the lawsuit. I too got all my silver back although I didn't have much.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 37,337 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019 3:28AM

    I think PCGS would be more likely to slab these coins/tokens if there were some scholarly reference book that organizes and photographs each coin/token including any major varieties and assigns a number to each coin/token. This is the case with pioneer gold coins, HTT's, CWT's, and SCD's which the major grading services now slab.

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 8,309 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like it or not, these pieces have a rabid fan base who are willing to pony up big money. Check recently ended NORFED auctions on eBay and you'll see what I mean. Individual rounds can sell for hundreds of dollars.

    To me they're bullion, and I've seen better. If they're going to be slabbed, I think ATS would be a better match.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • fatcatbobcatfatcatbobcat Posts: 3
    edited October 31, 2019 6:02PM

    NORFED Liberty Dollar Designs, Coin Numbers and Values some have sold. This site is ran and owened by Ron Goodger.

    This site discusses $10 Base $20 Base and $50 Base. Liberty Dollars can be found in
    5 ounce, 2 Ounce, 1 Ounce, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/20th ounce. They are minted in Silver, Gold, Copper, Platinum and Pewter. You'll find that each design is numbered and mintage mentioned. You'll also see Hallmarks, Die Sets, Prototypes and much much more.
    This site also discusses early on Hawaiian Dalas. This data is all one needs to build sets, find RARE Die Sets and start you TREASURE Hunt. This site will more than aid the gradding houses in grading NORFED Liberty Dollars. Please take the time and enjoy the history and load of data that will more than impress. If you find this site as helpful as I, please donate to keep this site relevant.
    There is now a BOOK of NORFED Liberty Dollars for sale on this site.
    The Liberty Dollar - From Concept to Crypto book measures 8-1/2 X 11 inches, contains 360 pages, lots of historic photos, presents the complete history of the currency and features four long chapters on the legal history of the Liberty Dollar. It also contains a 30 page Coin Catalog of every issue that features the Lady Liberty image or the LIBERTY DOLLAR name from 1992 to 2018.

    https://sites.google.com/site/libertydollarencyclopedia/

    As a grader of thousands of NORFED Liberty Dollars, This is a valuable site full of information. I worked dirrectely with Bernard, Dave Gille and others That distributed. They were a great wealth of knowledge. But I believe any grading house would all necessary info on the website and in the "NEW BOOK"
    PCGS
    Let's get these NORFED Graded PLEASE.
    Robert Haire

  • JBKJBK Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fatcatbobcat said:
    The Government was made to give all Liberty Dollars back to each owner and investors. NORFED's are and have always been legal to owen, buy, sell and trade.

    This simply is not true. I was personally part of the class that petitioned to get back LDs that were confiscated in the FBI raid on LD headquarters.

    BvN indeed did not go to jail but he was in fact convicted of counterfeiting based on a jury's (absurd) decision that certain LDs were too close in appearance to US coins. The LDs that led to that verdict were deemed to be counterfeit coins and were not returned to the owners.

    To repeat: some LDs were NOT returned to their owners. Somewhere I have the court documents that include details of the names, addresses, and specific LDs involved.

    I opposed the confiscation, support the collecting of LDs, and wish more services would slab them. But the facts are the facts.

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Norfed Liberty dollars along with Gallery Mint Museum, Daniel Carr and more are being
    graded by pcgs for some time now. If its in the Krause Unusual coins.
    .
    I uploaded only one page to give everyone an idea.
    .
    .

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭

    "As a grader of thousands of NORFED Liberty Dollars..."

    ...For whom?


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    If so, this could be an interesting development for the hobby.

    The reason I ask is because PCGS does certify Liberty Dollar bills from Von NotHaus:

    (Image)

    Since these were adjudicated to be counterfeits, I'm surprised any grading service would grade them. I might see a "not genuine" or "counterfeit" label though.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019 8:37PM

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Zoins said:
    If so, this could be an interesting development for the hobby.

    The reason I ask is because PCGS does certify Liberty Dollar bills from Von NotHaus:

    (Image)

    Since these were adjudicated to be counterfeits, I'm surprised any grading service would grade them. I might see a "not genuine" or "counterfeit" label though.

    Then prepare to be surprised :)

    PCGS and other TPGs straight grade counterfeits like the Machins Mills half penny. Also ANACS straight grades these Liberty Dollars.

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