A most unfortunate situation...
SilverBaron
Posts: 767 ✭
As a few of you may know .... I do like my Engelhard PM's. 
The popularity of collecting Engelhard items has grown by leaps in the last few years.
It now looks like we are a under attack do to our own success.
The number of BLATENT fake / counterfeit items on "A particular auction site" makes it
next to impossible for me to even check it for items ... let alone place bids.
Just 2 Examples ....
Best photo for a $3500 item?!!?
Not even close.
Just a thought ..... If you are looking at anything you think is questionable....
Try to post it here for opinions .... there are a lot of great folks this many years of experience ...... and are always willing to help!!
All I can say is ..... Do not give up collecting Engelhard .... Just be VERY careful!!
Keep on stack'n!!
The popularity of collecting Engelhard items has grown by leaps in the last few years.
It now looks like we are a under attack do to our own success.
The number of BLATENT fake / counterfeit items on "A particular auction site" makes it
next to impossible for me to even check it for items ... let alone place bids.
Just 2 Examples ....
Best photo for a $3500 item?!!?
Not even close.
Just a thought ..... If you are looking at anything you think is questionable....
Try to post it here for opinions .... there are a lot of great folks this many years of experience ...... and are always willing to help!!
All I can say is ..... Do not give up collecting Engelhard .... Just be VERY careful!!
Keep on stack'n!!
Silver Baron
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Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
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Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
0
Comments
Steve
<< <i>Is it just me, or is that pic out of focus, cuz I spent 2 minutes waiting for it to focus
Steve >>
You have to squint your eyes to see it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The first may well be legit too as it is pictured on the about ag website having 2 others that are 1 serial number off.
With the pictures offered from the 1st seller, Lack of concrete data, as well as unrealistic pricing (understatment) I don't see this one moving any time soon...
It's a pity I don't frequent Ebay as much as I used to and let this one get away from me without so much as a bid... 50c Piece
As much as I was excited to add it to my watch list, I didn't even realize it had closed un till days later....
Hopefully more info will show up to this thread
Cheers
edit; mixed up 1st and second ...
It's all about what the people want...
Its funny to me that the seller/flippers are always complaining how Ebay is supposedly all about the buyers. I don't know how that can even be said when ebay looks the other way at all these obvious scam sellers on the site. I mean you list one fake item, maybe you didn't know, but when everything you list is fake, come on get rid of these sellers. And I love how all these cam sellers like all ebay sellers have 100% feedback, the feedback system is way too easily manipulated by flippers/sellers.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
YES, just as I predicted they would. Certain legit 5 oz'ers are up as much as 30+%. Everyone thought it would affect the value for legit ones in a negative manner. I've been on record since April of this year countering that point of view, and I have been right. The presence of fakes has made legit ones go up, not down.
You certainly must be very aware of what oyu are bidding on, but there has been substantial things out there to combat it such as aboutag.com now having a Forum to discuss the topic and point out known sellers of fakes, and now a new site has an incredible amount of data with pictures and explanations pointing out what to look for, and the evolution of this trend. It's called allengelhard.com
Visit both sites and pay attention to what is going on and contribute if you have info. too. These sites are how the sellers of fakes are being combatted since eBay is doing absolutely nothing about it, and in fact, harbors and promotes sellers of fakes.
Sellers of fakes can manipulate their feedback as well so you wont be able to see when they do get tagged with a negative. Making all listings "private" enables them to hide all of that. Feedback on eBay is a joke because of this ability to hide it!
<< <i>...... since eBay is doing absolutely nothing about it, and in fact, harbors and promotes sellers of fakes. >>
I find this statement - well - frankly - unbelievable..... not for one second do I accept this and I do believe, that, without concrete proof, it is libelous.
Cheers, RickO
Where's the just kdding emotion with your comment. You can't be serious right?
It's been documented on here and other pm forums how eBay is doing absolutely nothing when a known seller of fake bars is still being to not only continue to sell, but even have an active account. The bars he is selling have been proven to be fake by experts in the hobby (no, not me, real experts, people who are well known to be experts in the Engelhard arena), and have been reported every time he relists them at $279, and eBay continues to allow him to do that. Is that not harboring and allowing fraud to occur?
There's a REASON his bars aren't selling having been relisted at least a dozen times at $279. I'll cut to the chase for you. If they were real, they'd go for $300+. Those who know better wont buy and it's gotten to a point that even beginners wont buy from him because the word has been spread that he is a fraud...yet eBay still allows him to have an active account. I don't think it gets any more plain than that. That is harboring known and proven fraud.
<< <i>I made the decision a long time ago to only keep 1) slabbed gold bullion and 2) 90% halves. Seemed to be the safest "hedge" against the counterfeit issue >>
You've got company there and it makes sense. I have not gone that far yet but the day might come where many of us do just that.
<< <i>I made the decision a long time ago to only keep 1) slabbed gold bullion and 2) 90% halves. Seemed to be the safest "hedge" against the counterfeit issue >>
Counterfeit Engelhard poured bars are most likely 999 silver.
The counterfeiters are making their money on the premium that bar collectors are willing to pay for scarce varieties.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>Have these fakes affected pricing for the real ones? >>
No, but alot of 3 ozers have passed hands cheaper...
<< <i>
<< <i>I made the decision a long time ago to only keep 1) slabbed gold bullion and 2) 90% halves. Seemed to be the safest "hedge" against the counterfeit issue >>
Im with ya there, I prefer slabbed bullion coins and assay carded bars, all from professional sources ......... And even with that I still keep an eye out for counterfeits of those as you can never be too safe !!!!!!!!
THEN, like in many, many numismatic coins, some of the "value" of the item (and profit for both the slabbing company and the people who submit and deal in slabs) will not be the value of the item itself, it will be the value of the "opinion"
And THEN, it might as well cease to be a piece of precious metal, and turn into a collector's item, which will be never be melted and used for industry, but just sold and resold to greater fools.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Yea, just like Da Vinci, Monet, Michelangelo , Raphael , Donatello , etc... >>
I wonder if Baley thinks these should also be slabbed?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Baley, how is it so unlike certified coins, there's obviously a market for it. So one is a "fool" if they happen to buy an uncertified coin that happens to be fake? Just trying to understand the comment correctly I guess. Does that mean one is a fool if they buy a fake engelhard bar? That's a bit harsh if I interpret what you're inferring correctly. >>
The Balphic oracle has gone silent.
Allow me to try to suggest two possible interpretations the original oracular pronouncement:
- Believing that a silver or gold ingot can be a collector's item with a market value greater than melt makes you a fool (or is it greater fool?);
- Only a fool would collect objects that have not received the Balphic oracle's seal of approval; or
- Both of the above.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
is that all that paint, didn't cost millions of dollars,
Cause I think you can still buy it today, and possibly
For just a few dollars...
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why do less minted coins go for more money than mass produced ones? Same rules apply for paintings I would think. But I try not to anymore.
<< <i>
The Balphic oracle ... >>
I assume this is some kind of digital phallic symbol/deity?....
<< <i>
<< <i>
The Balphic oracle ... >>
I assume this is some kind of digital phallic symbol/deity?.... >>
Not exactly - its just the Delphic oracle under new management.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
price is inflated though...
<< <i>that 1oz bar is not fake...
price is inflated though... >>
Do you know dimensions of this bar by chance? thanks
<< <i>
<< <i>that 1oz bar is not fake...
price is inflated though... >>
Do you know dimensions of this bar by chance? thanks >>
I've never had one in hand. Broadcasting those details, even if available, only helps the counterfeiters.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>that 1oz bar is not fake...
price is inflated though... >>
Do you know dimensions of this bar by chance? thanks >>
I've never had one in hand. Broadcasting those details, even if available, only helps the counterfeiters. >>
Makes sense, PM would be much appreciated. Anyone?