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Richie Incognito
galaxy27
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I'm surprised this hasn't been touched upon. When I initially caught this story at face value, I didn't think much of it. I just figured yet another innocuous "hazing" incident. But then I delved by reading the transcripts, and this is truly unprecedented stuff. Now I know why Richard Seymour punched this guy and why Antonio Smith tried to decapitate him with his helmet. If you'll treat a fellow teammate this way, can you only imagine what has gone on in the trenches against an opposing team?
ESPN link
ESPN link
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<< <i>I'm surprised this hasn't been touched upon. When I initially caught this story at face value, I didn't think much of it. I just figured yet another innocuous "hazing" incident. But then I delved by reading the transcripts, and this is truly unprecedented stuff. Now I know why Richard Seymour punched this guy and why Antonio Smith tried to decapitate him with his helmet. If you'll treat a fellow teammate this way, can you only imagine what has gone on in the trenches against an opposing team?
ESPN link >>
Unbelievable that teammates would treat one another this way. Even more amazing is that the head coach or coaching staff or veteran players, someone, didn't step in and tell this clown to knock it off.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>By no means am I saying what happened is right or just some childish hazing, but how does a guy that's 6'5" and 312 pounds get bullied to this extent? Somewhere along the line you would think he would have enough and resort to a serious physical confrontation. >>
I was thinking the exact same thing, win or lose Im smashing this guy but thats just me some people are just victims.
I want to hear more about this before I crucify this guy though, I havnt read a whole lot about it except that he was forced to pick up a $30K dinner tab which by all means he could have said no but who knows what else was going on for sure.
(I swear there must be some genetic link).
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Lots of players and staff are going to have to come up with some answers and it's not going to go away.
Edited for spelling.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Perkdog, you're underestimating the dynamics of the locker room. Unfortunately you can't just say no to picking up the $30k tab in today's pro sports world. For some insane reason it's a rite of passage in all pro leagues. Incognito also threatened his family and told Martin he would kill him.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What's not being reported is how did the coaching staff and/or management not catch this prior to this happening. Are they that removed or willfully ignorant that they didn't see it coming?
My thoughts exactly...
IMO, follow Richard Seymour's lead. Deck this racist clown.
Dave
<< <i>Now I know why Richard Seymour punched this guy and why Antonio Smith tried to decapitate him with his helmet. >>
Interesting that people who accused Antonio of being a 'dirty' player made plenty of excuses for Incognito during the pre-season. Dragged his name through the mud and have yet to offer an apology, though I doubt he'll hold his breath waiting for one.
<< <i>As long as his behavior only offends 9% of the population it's ok. >>
I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.
<< <i>
<< <i>As long as his behavior only offends 9% of the population it's ok. >>
I don't care who you are, that's funny right there. >>
+1
<< <i>As long as his behavior only offends 9% of the population it's ok. >>
Game. Set. Match. Well played.
As to people who think all 300 pounders are equal and should stand up for themselves......many lineman bench like 400 LBS.....Incognito benches 600 and is crazy. I'm about 175 and would last about 3 seconds with an MMA 175 LB fighter....just long enough to tap out.
Does not matter if they are young or old, big or little, boy or girl, etc. Crazy is crazy. Toss on top of crazy physical fitness and strength and you have an explosive situation.
If Incognito is crazy, then it does not matter what Martin did or did not, or could or could not do (or any other player on the team, or management, or ownership).
If the guy is a loose cannon waiting to go off, he is not worth the trouble and should be kicked off the team for good and banned from the league. He can then go be crazy in the middle of nowhere and hopefully not cause any trouble for anyone other than himself.
<< <i>By no means am I saying what happened is right or just some childish hazing, but how does a guy that's 6'5" and 312 pounds get bullied to this extent? Somewhere along the line you would think he would have enough and resort to a serious physical confrontation.
My thoughts exactly...
IMO, follow Richard Seymour's lead. Deck this racist clown.
Dave >>
Absolutely. There has never been a problem in the work place that could not be best solved with violence
Incognito's professional career is over, and rightfully so. The NFL is going to make an example out of this clown. More proof of how out of control this guy is? Video. Careful on the video, as there's some pretty unsavory language going on in there.
Or maybe he should attend counseling?
Dave
<< <i>Incognito is nuts. Throw in that, and the fear of retribution, and it's easy to see why Martin didn't do anything. Let's also not forget that Incognito was a Pro Bowler last year, which I am sure added to Martin's not wanting to come forward.
Incognito's professional career is over, and rightfully so. The NFL is going to make an example out of this clown. More proof of how out of control this guy is? Video. Careful on the video, as there's some pretty unsavory language going on in there. >>
Indeed, as someone who has been a victim of bullying (not just the classic schoolyard kind but also from, I'm sorry to say, from my so called "family") I too know exactly what it's like to be afraid of coming forward out of fear no one will believe you or take you seriously. As people here pointed out, don't you think Martin was wondering the same thing, who's gonna believe a giant 300+ lb six figure making NFL player could possibly be a victim of bullying on his own team? Sort of like how who could've believed that holy men of the cloth, special agents of God, could possibly be capable of sexually abusing children? Or that police officers could also do something like that (as my wife's father did to her when she was a child)?
All I can say is I hope whoever is responsible for all this nonsense (especially Incognito and the coaching staff) faces the appropriate consequences. And if necessary I hope Martin will find a team who can better appreciate what he has to offer.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
<< <i>
Indeed, as someone who has been a victim of bullying (not just the classic schoolyard kind but also from, I'm sorry to say, from my so called "family") I too know exactly what it's like to be afraid of coming forward out of fear no one will believe you or take you seriously. As people here pointed out, don't you think Martin was wondering the same thing, who's gonna believe a giant 300+ lb six figure making NFL player could possibly be a victim of bullying on his own team? Sort of like how who could've believed that holy men of the cloth, special agents of God, could possibly be capable of sexually abusing children? Or that police officers could also do something like that (as my wife's father did to her when she was a child)?
. >>
WTF did you just say?
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
Richie does live on the edge, but his teammates love him. Martin suffers from emotional stress, and that is tough.
The Dolphins organization and team have to have the media up their nose 24/7 now.
What Richie did has been done in football for many years now. Intimidation is a part of the game. These guys can be brutal.
Like the marines, if you can't handle it, then find a desk job. But you've got to feel bad for Martin. Hopefully everyone can be a little
more sensitive around this guy in the future.
<< <i>but his teammates love him. >>
Link
I'm very interested to hear Incognito's side of the story.
Throw this bum out, and make the NFL and its players realize that there is no place in any organized sports for this.
<< <i>Anyone who thinks the messages that Incognito left for Martin are 'hazing' or are in any way, shape, or form part of the game need a wake up call. When it devolves even further into talks and threats against your family? No, there's no place for that in football. And no, before that even gets brought up, it's not part of the 'wussification' of the league (as I am sure *some* of you are going to jump to next), but this is not about building tougher teammates, it's about waging emotional and psychological warfare against a guy who is supposed to be your teammate. If this were ANY other than sports, the messages left for Martin would mean instant termination for Incognito.
Throw this bum out, and make the NFL and its players realize that there is no place in any organized sports for this. >>
Actually, there is no place for this in the current academia world.
This type of behavior has been going on for centuries in climates where toughening guys up is needed for success.
Ask any marine, former pro football player, and current pro football players. No wussies allowed in these areas, and it's accepted practiced amongst these guys.
Richie may have crossed the line according to some, but to others, this is nothing, except for maybe the N word.
<< <i>
Actually, there is no place for this in the current academia world.
>>
What is 'the current academia world'? LOL
<< <i>This type of behavior has been going on for centuries in climates where toughening guys up is needed for success. >>
This wasn't 'toughening guys up', and I should have known you would be unable to understand the difference. Making repeated, threats against a teammate and his family is not 'toughening them up'. Continued use of racial slurs against a teammate isn't 'toughening them up'. Forcing a teammate to contribute $15,000 to a trip you aren't even going on isn't 'toughening them up'. The fact that you are willing to dismiss this out of hand as par for the course shows just how completely bonkers you are.
<< <i>Ask any marine, former pro football player, and current pro football players. No wussies allowed in these areas, and it's accepted practiced amongst these guys. >>
If it's so widely accepted, then it shouldn't be a story. If the hazing hadn't gotten so completely out of hand, it wouldn't be a story. What went on with Incognito (and presumably others) went far, far beyond 'toughening guys up', it strayed directly into workplace harassment. No, what went on wasn't 'accepted'.
<< <i>Richie may have crossed the line according to some, but to others, this is nothing, except for maybe the N word. >>
'May have crossed the line', but not to you? This is nothing? Good gravy you are something.
In no way did I give my opinion towards what Richie did. If you read my first post on the subject, I said it's sad for all people involved.
I merely stated that this has been going on for years in the NFL, marines, and other places of toughening guys up.
Look at how many of Richie's mates support him..
Now you want to try to associate my comments with crossing the line ?
Nowhere did I say what Richie did was acceptable. All I said is that this type of stuff has been going on for years in that environment.
Don't be so quick to judge, quick to anger, and try to be more understanding of what people are actually writing.
<< <i>
In no way did I give my opinion towards what Richie did. If you read my first post on the subject, I said it's sad for all people involved.
>>
The fact that you said 'maybe the n-word' crossed the line tells me all I need to know about how you feel. Throw in your continued support for the racist team name 'Redskin' and I see a clear pattern of behavior in regards to you.
<< <i>
The fact that you said 'maybe the n-word' crossed the line . >>
The truth is that the N-Word did not cross the line with some of Richie's African-American teammates.
So for me, the N-Word does cross the line. But some of Richie's AA teammates went on record supporting Richie.
I'm sure there's other AA teammates who do not appreciate it being used. They are still silent.
Much of the media reports from Dolphins players are supporting Richie, and not this Martin guy.
That could change in the future, but for now, there is lots of support for Richie amongst the Dolphins players.
<< <i> Throw in your continued support for the racist team name 'Redskin' and I see a clear pattern of behavior in regards to you. >>
I support the 91% of Native American Indians who do not feel the term Redskin is a racial slur.
You support the 9% that do.
I have not called the 9% bigots.
You have called the 91% of Native Americans bigots because they disagree with you.
You have proven over the years how vile you are with your comments. You even call those who disagree with you about the term Redskin bigots.
Do you understand that anyone who disagrees with you is for some reason underneath you ? Anyone who doesn't see things the way you see it is either a bigot, fool,
or any other derogatory word you can think of ? Are you ever going to just politely learn to disagree, or are you going to spend the rest of your life putting people
down who disagree with you ?
Text
"Local 10 in Miami got its hands a police report that was filed in May of last year, in which Richie Incognito is accused of physically harassing a woman who was volunteering at an annual golf tournament hosted by the Miami Dolphins."
<< <i>I think the critical takeaway from all this is that Jonathan Martin probably isn't suited for a career in pro football. You can say that reflects poorly on Martin, or that it reflects poorly on the NFL, but either way I think this is the only conclusion that anyone (to this point) can confidently assert. >>
Agreed.
<< <i>Cornwell is used to high-profile sports cases. Among his clients are New York Yankees star Alex Rodriguez in his case against Miami-based Biogensis, and former Milwaukee Brewers MVP Ryan Braun, who had a successful defense against performance-enhancing drug allegations before eventually admitting guilt >>
"But in an unscientific survey conducted by team reporters for ESPN.com's NFL Nation over two days this week, Incognito does not have the same level of support from some of his peers. Three players participated from each team surveyed, with 72 players in all asked three questions. The players taking part were granted anonymity.
To the question of which player, Martin or Incognito, would they rather have as a teammate, 15 of the players who responded (20.8 percent) said they would rather have Incognito as a teammate, while 34 (47.2 percent) said they would rather have Martin as a teammate.
However, 23 of those who responded, or 31.9 percent, said they would want neither as a teammate. In all, the results showed that 57 of those who answered (79.2 percent) would not want Incognito as a teammate."
<< <i>I think the critical takeaway from all this is that Jonathan Martin probably isn't suited for a career in pro football. You can say that reflects poorly on Martin, or that it reflects poorly on the NFL, but either way I think this is the only conclusion that anyone (to this point) can confidently assert. >>
Given my own personal background, I'm giving Martin the benefit of the doubt. A victim of abuse is never at fault and the last thing Martin needs is any kind of garbage about he "deserved it" or "had it coming" or "isn't cut out for pro football". No one doubted his ability to be an NFL lineman before all this...why should anyone now?
And I hope his family is indeed helping him along and standing behind him...because most of my "family" will not.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
From that point on, I decided that anyone trying to physically bully me was going to get fu#*ed up with whatever weapon I could find or my bare hands.
I have never been "hazed" by anyone, but over the years have read about some pretty sick $hit that has been done to people with the excuse of it being some kind of a pathetic "tradition".
Carrying someones pads or having to sing a fight song wouldn't bother me, but this garbage gets taken way too far. It's time we grew up a little bit and knocked of this B.S.
Some people are lucky this guy didn't react to bullying the way I did, or somebody would have been seriously hurt.
There's also no place here for the racial garbage. Fourth graders might not know any better (although they should) but adults certainly should.
Edited to add; If I had to buy donuts for the team OK. Thousands of dollars for some kind of extravagant team meal, no way. I don't care how much I make.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the critical takeaway from all this is that Jonathan Martin probably isn't suited for a career in pro football. You can say that reflects poorly on Martin, or that it reflects poorly on the NFL, but either way I think this is the only conclusion that anyone (to this point) can confidently assert. >>
Given my own personal background, I'm giving Martin the benefit of the doubt. A victim of abuse is never at fault and the last thing Martin needs is any kind of garbage about he "deserved it" or "had it coming" or "isn't cut out for pro football". No one doubted his ability to be an NFL lineman before all this...why should anyone now?
And I hope his family is indeed helping him along and standing behind him...because most of my "family" will not.
No one is questioning whether or not Martin felt like he was being picked on. What I got from boo's comment was that Martin didn't have the mental makeup for a barbaric sport, even more so in the trenches.
I'm not the thought police and don't know if Incognito's words were mean-spirited or good natured family-like ribbing. I can see how his words, without knowing the context, have no place in today's locker room. However, I also understand some inside jokes maybe perceived as completely inappropriate to outsiders but are actually terms of endearment within a family-like setting. Having said that, it doesn't change my opinion he's a dirty player that gets/got away with borderline penalties. IMO, just because you can bend the rules to the point of almost breaking them doesn't mean that you should.
"Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."
And your saying MARTIN isn't suited to play football. This guy is a real piece of work. Talking s#*t about someone's mother, not to mention the racial garbage. LOSER!!!!!
BUT
Have you ever given a close friend a good ribbing? Either because he needed a kick in the tush or just overall goofing off? Ever use colorful language, especially when you assume it's only between you two? You know it's all in good fun and nothing mean spirited about it. Now, what if a complete stranger read that exchange. Would they understand the context?
I'm not making excuses for Incognito, he's obviously not on my friend list, but we only know of a text or two. Long story short, there are three sides to a story and we've only heard one.
Of course not, because this type of behavior doesn't happen in winning locker rooms. Incognito is a bully, who used his influence to push people around. Period.
<< <i>Martin is genious .. Sue Incognito, the Team and the NFL for hostile work environment get all future earnings and do what ever he wants to without the fear of CTE >>
Man, if he can pull that off, then he will be a genious.
But it would have to be determined what kind of NFL career he would have had.
The Dolphins would probably say he was not going to be a full time starter, and probably released due to his poor work habits, which is why Richie went off on him.
<< <i>Suggesting this is anything resembling good natured ribbing or motivation is off the charts ignorance. I said it before, I'll say it again - do you think any winning football programs would ever in a million years allow this to happen? Do you think Bellichick or any other winning coaches would have this happen?
Of course not, because this type of behavior doesn't happen in winning locker rooms. Incognito is a bully, who used his influence to push people around. Period. >>
Let's not forget that perhaps the biggest bully in the history of sport was Michael Jordan, and he certainly had what you would call a winning locker room.