1913 Liberty Nickel plasters by Max Mehl

Zoins

I recently ran across this piece attributed to Benjamin Maximillian Mehl.

I was wondering how many of these existed, if they were created by B. Maximillian Mehl, and if they show a reverse. It's a very interesting piece and I wonder if it was created during the auction process.

> Painted silver, and attached to a cardboard card that reads: Plaster cast from genuine 1913 Nickel
>
> An interesting little piece, exquisitely produced. Accompanied by a letter stating that it was originally obtained from the estate of B. Max Mehl. Mehl, arguably the most prolific coin dealer of the 20th century, spent millions of dollars advertising to purchase an example of the 1913 Liberty nickel. He never bought one. In fact, the only time he sold one was through auction, when he handled the “Olson” specimen, undoubtedly the piece from which this item was made from.

Also, is it true that Mehl "spent millions of dollars advertising to purchase an example of the 1913 Liberty nickel?" Millions of dollars seems like a lot for advertising.



* Link: http://www.numismaticamericana.com/sales-repository/plaster-cast-of-1913-liberty-nickel/
* Image: http://www.numismaticamericana.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/1913lib5ccast.jpg

AUandAG

Is it just me? Why is the coin properly oriented. Wouldn't a plaster cast, when viewed, be a
reverse image?

bob

Zoins

<< <i>Is it just me? Why is the coin properly oriented. Wouldn't a plaster cast, when viewed, be a
reverse image?

bob >>



Good point! I'd also like to know

ricko

First they make the mold..then the image... it is correct. Cheers, RickO

Alltheabove76

<< <i>First they make the mold..then the image... it is correct. Cheers, RickO >>



exactly.

dbldie55

This plaster was on Ebay. I would love to have one, but the price was well out of my range.

Wabbit2313

That's cool!

CaptHenway

While I was still in Illinois I was contacted by a collector up in the northern end of the state who had one of these plaster casts. I referred him to the same link as in this thread, and never heard from him again.

It is likely that there are more out there, but I have no idea how many.

Zoins

I kind of regret not buying this Max Mehl plaster now.

This is probably the closest I would get to owning a 1913 Liberty nickel.

As it is, the current closest I have is a 1914 Liberty nickel.

NumisOxide

It's cool but if I had to have a copy, I'd rather have an electrotype. More durable than plaster.

oih82w8

Your links are no good in the OP. It would be neat to have, but I can only imagine how much it cost.

Zoins

@oih82w8 said:
Your links are no good in the OP. It would be neat to have, but I can only imagine how much it cost.

The links are from @njcoincrank's website. He hasn't been on in a year. I hope he's okay.

I think it was offered for around $2400 but I didn't see it ever sell.

Zoins

Here's a second specimen, offered for $4,900 in 2021.

I believe the Bill Shamhart specimen in the OP from 2013 was offered at $2,500 at the time.

This also comes with photo of the back of the holder so it answers my 2013 question about the back side.

Zoins

Any thoughts as to whether PCGS will certify these one day?

PerryHall

@Zoins said:
Any thoughts as to whether PCGS will certify these one day?

I doubt it. If they did, they would be setting a precedent for grading other cast coins.

Zoins

@PerryHall said:

@Zoins said:
Any thoughts as to whether PCGS will certify these one day?

I doubt it. If they did, they would be setting a precedent for grading other cast coins.

PCGS did slab this electrotype, but this one is different as as there's some unproven conjecture that it was created at the US Mint.

tradedollarnut

Super cool

Zoins

@tradedollarnut said:
Super cool

It really is. More than a lot of other things, this shows how important this coin was to people in that era.

Oldsycamore

Maybe this will clear things up. I have 4 of these 1913 plaster cast nickels. The first one came from an old time collector who said that when McDermott carried his original in his pocket he gave these as a gift. I ran a Coin Shop in Northern Illinois and I think McDermott was from Milwaukee.

Zoins

@Oldsycamore said:
Maybe this will clear things up. I have 4 of these 1913 plaster cast nickels. The first one came from an old time collector who said that when McDermott carried his original in his pocket he gave these as a gift. I ran a Coin Shop in Northern Illinois and I think McDermott was from Milwaukee.

Very interesting information!

Here's some info from Wikipeida on coin dealer James V. "J.V." Mac" McDermott carrying the coin around.

Has anyone seen this coin at the ANA?

McDermott specimen

Held by the American Numismatic Association's Money Museum in Colorado Springs, Colorado, the McDermott specimen has the distinction of being the only 1913 Liberty Head nickel with circulation marks on it. Johnson and Newman sold it to James Kelly, who then sold it to J.V. McDermott, whose name ended up as part of the coin's pedigree. He often carried the coin around with him, showing it off to bar patrons and boasting of its extraordinary rarity and value. The coin lost some of its original mint luster in the process, and McDermott eventually protected it in a holder to prevent further wear. After his death, the coin was then sold at auction to Aubrey Bebee in 1967 for US$46,000, who along with his wife donated it to the ANA in 1989, where it is exhibited in the Money Museum.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Liberty_Head_nickel#McDermott_specimen

Zoins

Here's some in interesting info from Ed Rochette who worked at Krause Publications in the 1960s.

Not only did Mac pass around his coin at the bar, he shipped it via USPS uninsured to Krause Publications!

Ed Rochette said:
I worked at Krause as an editor during the 1960s and thus have a store of anecdotal memories to call upon. There was the time we wanted to photograph a well-known but very rare coin to illustrate the cover of an early issue of Coins Magazine. The 1913 Liberty Head nickel seemed to fit the bill.

This coin is one of the best known of all American rarities. There are but five specimens known and, at the time, one was owned by a collector in Milwaukee, J.V. McDermott.

"Mac," as he was known, used to loan it to collectors to show at their club meetings or conventions. He carried the coin in his pocket to major coin shows.

In our minds there was little doubt that Mac would loan us this rare coin to be photographed. A phone call to Milwaukee confirmed it. Yes, we would receive it in a few days.

True to his word, the 1913 Liberty Head nickel arrived in the mail a few days later -- uninsured. When asked about it later, Mac replied, "Heck, everybody knows you can trust the mails!" That was almost 30 years ago.

Mac was indeed a trusting soul. Not only did he carry the coin around in his pocket, he also was known to imbibe in less than moderate terms. Evenings, after the bourse had closed, he often headed straight for the hotel bar, taking along his nickel.

The coin was passed around so much that it became the only specimen of the five known that could no longer be called "uncirculated."

Ref: https://buffalonews.com/news/he-trusted-rare-nickel-to-the-post-office/article_2c3cd6d9-d372-500e-be53-7f0d86d6336d.html

Zoins

More color on the nature of the McDermott specimen being passed around the bar:

David L. Ganz said:
It is the 1913 Liberty nickel, which Breen described as "nicked, scratched, cleaned, exhibited at hundreds of conventions, reportedly used by [former owner J.V.] McDermott for baroom betting"

Ref: https://books.google.com/books?id=7hNjDwAAQBAJ&q=mcdermott

CaptHenway

@Zoins said:

@PerryHall said:

@Zoins said:
Any thoughts as to whether PCGS will certify these one day?

I doubt it. If they did, they would be setting a precedent for grading other cast coins.

PCGS did slab this electrotype, but this one is different as as there's some unproven conjecture that it was created at the US Mint.

I am confident that the Mint did make some electrotypes of the 1804 dollar. One of them was copied from the unique Type Two, and you can easily see the Swiss undertype.

Zoins

@CaptHenway said:

@Zoins said:

@PerryHall said:

@Zoins said:
Any thoughts as to whether PCGS will certify these one day?

I doubt it. If they did, they would be setting a precedent for grading other cast coins.

PCGS did slab this electrotype, but this one is different as as there's some unproven conjecture that it was created at the US Mint.

I am confident that the Mint did make some electrotypes of the 1804 dollar. One of them was copied from the unique Type Two, and you can easily see the Swiss undertype.

Agreed, except perhaps not that easily visible since these photos are of the electrotype made from the coin struck over the 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler.

This has a nice provenance:

Mark Ferguson said:
This electrotype is now owned by ANA Past President H. Robert Campbell who purchased it about 15 years ago from another Past President of the ANA, Kenneth Bressett, who obtained it in 1993 from the Detroit Money Museum. The museum displayed this electrotype from 1960 to 1993 after acquiring it from Detroit collector Nate S. Shapero.

Ref: https://coinweek.com/education/coin-grading/coin-profiles-electrotype-1804-dollar/