removing ASE spots
derryb
Posts: 36,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
anyone here had any luck removing spots from ASEs? prefer a dip method that works rather than a dremel tool.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
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Comments
<< <i>Milk spots are forever; learn to live with them. >>
Agree. They are part of the metal and the only way to remove them involves removing some surface metal which will ruin the coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If naked eye appeal is all you want like me then why not try on a similar spotted ASE that has melt value before tackling the one you want to do well.
FWIW some older ASE's clean better than new ASE's probably because the blanks were more finished, better or whatever if not slightly polished.
Good luck ------------spot cleaning will alter the surface if you use any kind of dip.
Only "scraping" them will have some effect (and side effects!).
I saw a video on YouTube a while back where they were trying with a rubber eraser on a Maple Leaf. It worked (I still have my doubts about it)
I found the spots on ASEs (minor spots), Philhas (bad) and Maples (the worst).
This is the reason I do not collect silver coins.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>the fact that dips will not work tells me it is more than a surface problem. Possible leaching of a chemical from the metal? >>
The white spots are silver chloride. The silver on the surface is converted to silver chloride by the residual chloride which gets left on the coin's surface during the various manufacturing steps. The source of the chloride is believed/speculated to be from hydrochloric acid used in one or more washing/cleaning steps. Since the silver isn't removed from the surface, technically it couldn't be leached.
I found this little factoid about silver chloride which would explain in part why it isn't so easy to simply dissolve if from the surface.
"<<When Silver Chloride is freshly prepared in solution, it looks and feels exactly like soft, white Cottage Cheese. This freshly prepared Silver Chloride, when rinsed and damp, before it is dry, or exposed to any light, will tend to be more soluble than commercially prepared, dry, blended, sifted Silver Chloride. During the drying, sifting and blending process, Silver Chloride undergoes subtle changes that are not always visible to the human eye. When dry, Silver Chloride hardens into pretty tough, but very tiny, little particles. The very outer layers of the dry Silver Chloride powder pieces tend to undergo changes when exposed to even dim lighting and oxygen that make the Silver Chloride powder less soluble in solutions. The more the light and heat, the more pronounced this effect becomes.">>
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The guys at my old store front (now a cash for gold shop, they know ziltch about coins) use a pencil eraser on them to make them look good for the counter sales. >>
They are after all just bullion. Apparently some collector/owners are persnickety about the cosmetic appearance of their ASEs.
<< <i>Are milk spots more likely on a coin that's been put in a slab than on a raw coin? Are milk spots more likely on proofs than on uncirculated examples? Thoughts and experiences? >>
They are already on the coin as soon as they leave the minting facility. The slabs don't cause the spots. If they did, one would expect that the enclosed coin would be entirely covered in white/haze. One way to check is to look at the coin using a halogen flashlight. If there are any incipient spots that are not yet visible under normal lighting it is said that they can be seen with this method. As long as they aren't visible, I believe they can be removed by dipping in EZest. Some here say acetone, but I don't picture that working very well. One would need to do some kind of controlled study in order to find out. It seems to me that over time, exposure to moisture will cause whatever is left on the surface to react to the point that it gets converted to silver chloride. I believe because of the nature of the surface that the spots are more easily removed from proof coins.
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<< <i>Milk spots are forever; learn to live with them. >>
Agree. They are part of the metal and the only way to remove them involves removing some surface metal which will ruin the coin. >>
Not if you can find a way to reduce the oxidized silver back to its elemental state.
<< <i>Oh man, I was just putting away a few coins in the safe and pulled out a few PCGS PR70DCAM Proofs from the 25th Anv set and they have milk spots!!! Dadgum! Didn't I read that PCGS wont guarantee milk spots anymore? Hmm...now what??? >>
Understandable that PCGS would rescind their guarantee since it is an as manufactured defect.
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<< <i>Milk spots are forever; learn to live with them. >>
Agree. They are part of the metal and the only way to remove them involves removing some surface metal which will ruin the coin. >>
Not if you can find a way to reduce the oxidized silver back to its elemental state. >>
How is that possible if they are struck into the surface of the coin under tons of pressure? (This is a rhetorical question that I doubt anyone can answer.)
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>Milk spots are forever; learn to live with them. >>
Agree. They are part of the metal and the only way to remove them involves removing some surface metal which will ruin the coin. >>
Not if you can find a way to reduce the oxidized silver back to its elemental state. >>
How is that possible if they are struck into the surface of the coin under tons of pressure? (This is a rhetorical question that I doubt anyone can answer.) >>
The same way it's possible to dissolve those same atoms from the surface using acid based dips. Nic O Date notwithstanding, if the spots can be removed BEFORE they become visible, but not AFTER, then it would seem that striking force/pressure would have little or nothing to do with it.
<< <i>Oh man, I was just putting away a few coins in the safe and pulled out a few PCGS PR70DCAM Proofs from the 25th Anv set and they have milk spots!!! Dadgum! Didn't I read that PCGS wont guarantee milk spots anymore? Hmm...now what??? >>
If it's worth more raw than spotted, even if a PR70DCAM you have little to lose by cracking and trying to get the spot off, IMHO. It's a bummer though.
If the spots are on the fields of a proof coin chances of removing the spot is much higher.
Using the MS-70 soap route and maybe with a q-tip followed with a distilled water bath and an acetone rinse. Be sure the coin is thoroughly dry and then into an air-tite.
Maybe you can put together a raw set that way.
I did that with an '06 reverse proof (the spot was in a crease of Liberty's dress) and use it as a raw display set. It originally came back slabbed from PCGS with the spot and a PR67 grade so I had zilch to lose.
After removing the spot it's a beautiful example of a "hammered" reverse proof.