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Why is the Washington Redskins name controversy only JUST NOW making news?
Estil
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in Sports Talk
Okay, like all the rest of you I've been made aware of the recent controversy surrounding the Washington Redskins name. But here's what I don't understand, why is this making news just now? I mean the 'Skins has been a racist term for Native Americans for several decades (and thus why some insist it has to go) but where was all this outrage before? They've been known as the 'Skins since what, the 1920s? So exactly why has the uproar only reached a fever pitch only just now, and not say, a few years or even a few decades ago? What exactly changed?
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Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
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Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
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Just my opinion.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>So exactly why has the uproar only reached a fever pitch only just now, and not say, a few years or even a few decades ago? What exactly changed? >>
Native Americans haven't exactly had a platform in the past to protest this racist name. Fortunately in this era of unprecedented access to expression, more and more people have been showing just how oppressive and racist this term really is. The fact that some want to try to spin this deragatory term to something positive shows just how removed they are from the term itself. Dan Snyder defiantly saying he will 'never' change the name, despite protests from Native Americans is proof of this.
The fact that there are some mainstream media folks also calling for the change can only help things.
Stuff like this ticks me off. The University of Illinois finally bowed to the PC idiots and got rid of Chief Illiniwek, who was not a caricature or racist in any shape, form or fashion. All due to some Indian "activists" who weren't even members of any Illinois tribe but claimed to speak for them, something later proved false. Same thing with the Bradley Braves.
Here's an idea... if it offends you so much and you want to protest... protest by not going to the games. If there are so many such righteously indignant folks out there as claimed..there aren't, but if there are... then the ownership of said teams will certainly bow to the economics of the situation, right...?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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<< <i>Its nothing more than, people getting offended in a situation where offending people is not intended. I think that if someone doesnt like the name, then they dont have to watch or support the team. >>
Well said. Next we'll have a bunch of Southerners say the term Yankee is offensive to them because it represents the people that killed many of their people during
the Civil War. They'll try to squeeze every penny out of the Steinbrenner's.
Yankee origin
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Ralph
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
The Chief Wahoo and Atlanta Brave mascot are both in dire need of changing as well. These caricatures of Native Americans are highly disrespectful of an entire race.
Pretty much the best hockey jersey in the world. And it has an Indian head on it.
Many people forget that Indian head gold coins are very collectible as well.
I think we all understand that 99% of Americans admire the American Indian, and anything that resembles them in the sports world is a plus in my view.
When I see the Washington Redskins, Chicago Blackhawks, or Florida State Seminoles, I think they're awesome uniforms, and a tribute to the American Indian.
Never ever thought of them as racist, or bigoted.
<< <i>Just because those being disrespected make up a small minority of the American population doesn't make the insult any less egregious. >>
You're right, but where does it end? How much power should a small group of people have over a private company? A 2004 poll found that 9% of Native Americans are offended by the football team's name and currently there are high schools physically on Native American Reservations with the "Chiefs", "Indians" AND the "Redskins" as their mascot. Who is being offended by this? A group of promenent Native American businessmen who "represent" their culture? I would like to know exactly who Dan Snyder is offending and if these names are so offensive then I want to know why they refer to themselves by said names.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
In any event, many, many times during our years playing hoops together he would (both on and off the court) call me and other white teammates "honkey fa--ot". While on the court playing, if he would make a move to get open to shoot a jump shot over my outstretched arms, he would in the course of making his move tell me "rise and shine honkey fa--ot". He always said this phrase with a big grin on his face. He also used this phrase when he was being defended by other black players.
I would talk back to him and would call him "My brotha", "Holmes", "Dolamite", etc. I would talk trash about his momma. Once and only once did I use the "N" word in front of him (just to see what kind of reaction I would get from him [he did a double take, stopped and stared at me as I grinned at him] and from his reaction I knew that it was something I would never say in front of him again [though I did ask him why it is ok for blacks to use it when referring to each other but it is not ok for non blacks to use it at all]).
So even though we were good friends and teammates, and even though I knew he was using the phrases mentioned above in jest, as a part of the trash talk that takes place on the basketball court, and even thought at the time I was not offended by his statements,............... I guess I should have actually been OFFENDED by him.
In fact, as the years have gone by and I become more PC and progressive in my thoughts I find that I am OFFENDED to this very day (and retroactively back to my days as a teammate of his). I feel more angst and pain and anguish about his hurtful words. There ought to be a law enacted to make illegal this type of racist treatment of me at the hands of my black teammate. Can I find some interest group or advocacy group to take an interest in my suffering and to take up my cause for SOCIAL JUSTICE against my former teammate who abused me so!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure that there have been countless other white basketball players at all levels of the game over the past 50+ years that have been similarly attacked and abused. Perhaps we can all band together, share our painful experiences, confront those who have wronged us and begin to finally heal.
Or perhaps I should just look my teammate up, call him, see how he is doing and down a cold one while talking about the good old days when we both would talk non PC trash to each other on and off the court
<< <i>
<< <i>Just because those being disrespected make up a small minority of the American population doesn't make the insult any less egregious. >>
You're right, but where does it end? How much power should a small group of people have over a private company? A 2004 poll found that 9% of Native Americans are offended by the football team's name and currently there are high schools physically on Native American Reservations with the "Chiefs", "Indians" AND the "Redskins" as their mascot. Who is being offended by this? A group of promenent Native American businessmen who "represent" their culture? I would like to know exactly who Dan Snyder is offending and if these names are so offensive then I want to know why they refer to themselves by said names. >>
But it's not a private company. It's a arm of a very prominent company that enjoys nonprofit status. As far as referring to themselves as 'redskins' please tell me who these people are. And if its so non-offending would you walk up to a group of them and say 'what up you redskins?'
Of course you wouldn't.
<< <i>People trying to equate 'Redskin' and 'Fighting Irish' or 'Yankee' are completely missing the point. Neither of those terms are epithets and neither carry anything resembling the negative connotation that 'Redskin' does. Just because those being disrespected make up a small minority of the American population doesn't make the insult any less egregious. It's not 'PC' to want our sports teams to be respectful of all people. Just because something has been around 'forever' doesn't mean it shouldn't change.
The Chief Wahoo and Atlanta Brave mascot are both in dire need of changing as well. These caricatures of Native Americans are highly disrespectful of an entire race. >>
Complete BS, in my opinion it pays homage and recognizes our Native American history. I have Native American blood in me and I say keep the name. I garuntee alot of these people that are complaining would shut up if money was being sent their way...
Hopefully the Redskins ownership tells everyone to F off!
Having a professional football team nickname that refers to humans skin color is indefensible, whether it pays homage or not. The tradition is the players and the people and the games, not the word "Redskins". The name is going to change and this debate will be a distant memory rather quickly imo. Might want to get on board instead of shaking your fists.
It is infinitely worse. No matter how small the minority, we cater to every person that is "offended" in this country. It's nauseating.
<<<I garuntee alot of these people that are complaining would shut up if money was being sent their way...>>>
Well said Perk.
<<<And if its so non-offending would you walk up to a group of them and say 'what up you redskins?'>>>
No, I wouldn't, but not because I'm afraid of getting my butt kicked, but because it wouldn't even enter my mind to use the word. Outside of football, the word is barely a part of the English language. In fact, I'm 38 years old, and I don't know that I've ever heard the word when it's not being used to refer to a football team. I'd bet that 99.9% of Native Americans have never heard the word directed at them. If I wanted to speak disparagingly about a Native American, I'd probably use 30 different words before I settled on the word "redskin".
The most disgusting part of this whole movement, are the sportswriters (Bill Simmons, Peter King, Matthew Berry, etc.) that no longer use the word in their articles, and guys like Bob Costas that go on TV before a SNF game and pretend to be holier than thou and condemn the use of the word. Like somehow they are the enlightened people of the sports world. Give me a freaking break.
<< <i>The most disgusting part of this whole movement, are the sportswriters (Bill Simmons, Peter King, Matthew Berry, etc.) that no longer use the word in their articles, and guys like Bob Costas that go on TV before a SNF game and pretend to be holier than thou and condemn the use of the word. Like somehow they are the enlightened people of the sports world. Give me a freaking break. >>
And yet, they will gladly fill their pockets with cash to cover an entity that condones the use of a word they consider an indefensible 'slur'. If it's that offensive, demeaning, and oppressive, they (along with the other keyboard warriors) should immediately boycott the NFL until their demands are met. This includes, but not limited to, watching games on TV, clicking any link associated with the NFL, purchase licensed gear, and donating any monetary gain to a Native American charity of their choice.
While they're at it, they should also vacate their residence since it sits atop of "stolen" land and give it back to the rightful owners. That is more offensive than a word and I'd bet the nearest tribe will gladly trade places. Actions speak louder than fauxrage.
Try to put it into perspective for a minute. A word that offends some people is going to go away and it will be replaced by another word. In the big scheme of things, how important is this to you personally?
Where do you draw the line?!!??!?!?
Who cares? Adapt. Save your energy for more important things.
fauxrage...I like that word.
<< <i>Who cares? Adapt. Save your energy for more important things. >>
Agreed 100%.
As a side note, don't forget that every time you purchase a NFL licensed product, regardless of team, 1/32 of the net proceeds goes into Dan Snider's pocket and he thanks you for your support.
<< <i>If the prospect of the word "Redskin" being removed from popular culture is going to make you guys this upset, I can't imagine how you are able to function day to day.
Try to put it into perspective for a minute. A word that offends some people is going to go away and it will be replaced by another word. In the big scheme of things, how important is this to you personally?
Where do you draw the line?!!??!?!?
Who cares? Adapt. Save your energy for more important things. >>
Well said. It's sad that these folks are not so beholden to the team name but rather are so outraged that a minority which is being discriminated against is going to get their way. These obviously older, obviously white men are freaking out that they are not going to get their way each and every time anymore. They see the writing on the wall in they are losing majority status and soon will be a minority and it absolutely freaks them out. I really wish they'd spend their energy on something that would make this country better instead of worrying about a dammed sports team.
Like was said - the team name redskins is going away sooner than later (and thankfully). To the dope who suggested the writers stop covering the nfl? Give me a break. They are contractually obligated to do so. I wonder if these same dopes suggesting those offended watch something else will do so when the Redskin team name gets changed? I doubt it!
Patriots: Offensive to non-Americans
Jets: Offensive to anti-war advocates
Ravens: Offensive to the ancestors of Edgar Allen Poe, since he was born in Boston
Browns: Offensive to persons of Hispanic and Middle Eastern decent
Chiefs: Offensive to Native Americans
Raiders: Offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by Pirates
Cowboys: Offensive to Native Americans
Giants: Offensive to persons that are vertically challenged
Vikings: Offensive to persons of Nordic decent, while also offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by said Vikings
Saints: Offensive to persons that do not believe in religion
Buccaneers: Offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by Pirates
49ers: Offensive to Native Americans
<< <i>I deem the following NFL team names offensive. While I may or may not personally know of a person that feels violated, I'm taking it upon myself because I know better than everyone else.
Patriots: Offensive to non-Americans
Jets: Offensive to anti-war advocates
Ravens: Offensive to the ancestors of Edgar Allen Poe, since he was born in Boston
Browns: Offensive to persons of Hispanic and Middle Eastern decent
Chiefs: Offensive to Native Americans
Raiders: Offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by Pirates
Cowboys: Offensive to Native Americans
Giants: Offensive to persons that are vertically challenged
Vikings: Offensive to persons of Nordic decent, while also offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by said Vikings
Saints: Offensive to persons that do not believe in religion
Buccaneers: Offensive to the victims of past crimes committed by Pirates
49ers: Offensive to Native Americans >>
It's interesting that you and others continue to equate terms that are NOT racial epithets to one that is. It's comical how pathetically devoted you are to railing against the supposed 'PC' movement (whatever that is). The facts remain: the term 'Redskin' is a racial insult, and its use IS going away, no matter how much whining and crying you and others like you do about the 'wussification' of the NFL.
Most interesting? The people crying the loudest about the change AREN'T EVEN REDSKIN FANS! It would be one thing if you had a vested interest in it, but to sit there and defend a racially insulting team name without being a fan of said team speaks the loudest of all!
No, sir, what is offensive here is the blatant disregard you have for Native Americans. What's offensive is you and others like you putting more importance on a stupid team name than on the feelings of an entire race of people. Just because it's offensive to a minority of people doesn't make it any less egregious of an insult. Throughout history we have changed our vernacular to accommodate changing behavior and feelings, and this term, like many other racial slurs, will soon be ended.
<< <i><<<The country is becoming more and more PC (for better or worse)>>>
It is infinitely worse. No matter how small the minority, we cater to every person that is "offended" in this country. It's nauseating. >>
Spoken like a true white, Christian, man. Look at it from the minorities perspective rather than your own. While some people of any different minority groups would prefer the PC stuff not be talked about there are plenty of others who really do care; no matter how small or insignificant it may be to you.
<< <i>Spoken like a true white, Christian, man. Look at it from the minorities perspective rather than your own. While some people of any different minority groups would prefer the PC stuff not be talked about there are plenty of others who really do care; no matter how small or insignificant it may be to you. >>
I don't know what religion has to do with this but anyway, go ask a Native American what's more offensive: a team called the Washington Redskins or a $20 bill. Based on your comment, pretty sure the answer will surprise you.
As a side note, I may not agree with what you say but will defend your right to say it. As long as it doesn't put any lives in danger, talk away.
<< <i>Well said. It's sad that these folks are not so beholden to the team name but rather are so outraged that a minority which is being discriminated against is going to get their way. These obviously older, obviously white men are freaking out that they are not going to get their way each and every time anymore. They see the writing on the wall in they are losing majority status and soon will be a minority and it absolutely freaks them out. I really wish they'd spend their energy on something that would make this country better instead of worrying about a dammed sports team.
Like was said - the team name redskins is going away sooner than later (and thankfully). To the dope who suggested the writers stop covering the nfl? Give me a break. They are contractually obligated to do so. I wonder if these same dopes suggesting those offended watch something else will do so when the Redskin team name gets changed? I doubt it! >>
No one is being discriminated against. Is a name offensive if no one is offended? I still want to know who is offended by this. I doubt any of these posters live on reservations or are Native American (1/32 doesn't count). Who knows, I may just be ignorant.
If this name is offensive why do they name their own high school teams after the "chiefs", "Indians" and "Redskins"?. If the name is so offensive why can I walk into a Casino on a reservation and bet on the Redskins to win? If the name is so offensive why are only 9% of Native Americans offended? No one is forcing ESPN or Bob Costas to cover the Redskins. They are free people in a free nation where they can cover, comentate, write or watch whatever they darn well desire.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
My college teams was nicknamed the Raiders when I played. The Raider emblem was a US Calvary solider on a charging horse with a raised saber (my college is Fort Lewis college in Durango, Co. and it began as a US Army fort in the 1870's, after which it became an Indian school, and later a junior college and later a four year liberal arts college). In the 1980's or 1990's the school decided to dump the Raider nickname and charging calvaryman as an emblem. They were replaced with "Skyhawks" and a modernistic raptor in flight. The Raider and the calvaryman were deemed offensive and not PC by many who claimed to speak for Native American Indians in the southwest. I miss the old nickname and emblem, but understand why they were dumped. I wonder if anyone is offended by "Skyhawks"?
How, brother!
edited to add: after discussing it with mom, we agreed that since she's 5ish%, i'm probably closer to 2.5ish% due to it getting cut in half from dad's side. my apologies for the error.
What 'injustice' are you ignorant folks going to take up once this name gets changed? Good gravy! It's comical that stown is trying to bring up the fact that nobody of Native American ancestry is speaking up. I find it even more telling that of all the folks ranting about leaving the name the way it is, NONE of you are even fans of the team! I think maybe its time to step away from the keyboard, look yourself in the mirror, and ask why exactly you are such a proponent of keeping a racist, degrading team name in existence.
<< <i>So because it's a small minority, we should just completely disregard their feelings and the facts that the term 'Redskin' rooted in history as a racial epithet doesn't mean anything. That's the gist of the folks coming out pro-Redskin are saying, anyways.
What 'injustice' are you ignorant folks going to take up once this name gets changed? Good gravy! It's comical that stown is trying to bring up the fact that nobody of Native American ancestry is speaking up. I find it even more telling that of all the folks ranting about leaving the name the way it is, NONE of you are even fans of the team! I think maybe its time to step away from the keyboard, look yourself in the mirror, and ask why exactly you are such a proponent of keeping a racist, degrading team name in existence. >>
What is degrading about it? Seriously. Many Native Americans have spoken up in defense of the name as a symbol of pride. Are their opinions not counted? What if I told you more Native Americans were proud of the name than offended, would that matter? Like I said, is a name offensive if no one is offended? If we are changing the name solely because it refers to the color of a groups skin than we are being PC only for the sake of being PC. No one wins other than the loudest man in the room.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>I find the name "Yankee" insulting and offensive. >>
Now THIS is something I can get behind!
<< <i>
What is degrading about it? Seriously. Many Native Americans have spoken up in defense of the name as a symbol of pride. Are their opinions not counted? What if I told you more Native Americans were proud of the name than offended, would that matter? Like I said, is a name offensive if no one is offended? If we are changing the name solely because it refers to the color of a groups skin than we are being PC only for the sake of being PC. No one wins other than the loudest man in the room. >>
Irregardless of those who speak up in defense of it, the term itself is racially charged and a epithet. As far as the numbers which way or another, it DOESN'T MATTER. What part of this don't you understand? You then go on to ask if no one is offended? Native Americans ARE offended, and the term is a racial slur. Period. End of discussion. I don't know how much clearer this can be made for you and those trying to keep pushing back against this. In addition, they aren't asking the name change to be 'PC', its a SLUR. How exactly well received would a team called the 'Blackies', for example, with a black man being depicted? You don't think that term was and is still thrown around? But because there are fewer Native Americans we're not supposed to be sensitive to this racial slur?
Anyone suggesting this term 'Redskin' is a symbol of pride is a fool. It has not ever been used in a positive light.
<< <i>Irregardless is not a word. >>
It is a word
"Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose."
Nice try spinning away from the original topic, though.
Really? So if only one Native American was offended, Snyder should be forced to change the name? If an equal number of Native Americans take pride in the name Redskins, and would be upset if the name was changed, that doesn't count for anything?
<<<the term itself is racially charged>>>
How can a word be racially charged when the vast majority of people don't even know what it means? I'd bet 98% of Americans (maybe more) had no idea it was a racial slur until the Matthew Berry's and Peter King's of the world told us its a bad word (and in the irony of ironies, Berry is Redskins fan). The "N-word" is racially charged. Certain Mexican slurs are racially charged. In those communities, when an outsider uses those terms, it is almost universally accepted that those are "fighting words". White people fully understand the implications of using those words. When Rick Reilly says he's interviewed hundreds of Native Americans and the majority of them take zero offense to the term, that makes me think the term isn't very "racially charged".
<<<How exactly well received would a team called the 'Blackies', for example, with a black man being depicted? >>>
As an FYI, New Zealand's rugby team nickname is the "All Blacks".
<< <i><<<As far as the numbers which way or another, it DOESN'T MATTER. >>>
Really? So if only one Native American was offended, Snyder should be forced to change the name? If an equal number of Native Americans take pride in the name Redskins, and would be upset if the name was changed, that doesn't count for anything?
>>
No. It's a racial slur. Period. Sorry that it's that difficult for some folks to grasp, but that's the reality.
Why are you folks spending so much energy in fighting this? You aren't redskins fans! Why do you have such a vested interest in a racial slur being removed as a team football name?
<< <i>"Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead." >>
Good lord stown you really are desperate to try to one up me, aren't you? Sheesh! And yet IT IS A WORD!
Everyone can wear beige.
That way no one will get their widdle panties in a wad.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>The name Neutral offends both Positive and Negative people. >>
LOL you're right. How about the Nothings?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Anyone suggesting this term 'Redskin' is a symbol of pride is a fool. It has not ever been used in a positive light. >>
I don't believe any team at any time said "Let's adopt a nickname that belittles and degrades us. All teams adopt a name to bring a feeling of honor, pride, etc. You may feel they were wrong in doing so but the name wasn't chosen to belittle native Americans.
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Ralph
<< <i>I propose that those so incensed about the proposed change state exactly why they are so offended. >>
I propose the self-righteous state why they feel they should appoint themselves the spokesmen for the people who are actually part of the minority being discussed...who, according to statistics, don't actually care about this non-controversy one way or the other themselves.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>I propose that those so incensed about the proposed change state exactly why they are so offended. >>
I propose the self-righteous state why they feel they should appoint themselves the spokesmen for the people who are actually part of the minority being discussed...who, according to statistics, don't actually care about this non-controversy one way or the other themselves. >>
Ok, one vote for 'I don't have any reason'. Next?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I propose that those so incensed about the proposed change state exactly why they are so offended. >>
I propose the self-righteous state why they feel they should appoint themselves the spokesmen for the people who are actually part of the minority being discussed...who, according to statistics, don't actually care about this non-controversy one way or the other themselves. >>
Ok, one vote for 'I don't have any reason'. Next? >>
OK, we've heard from the self hating liberal gotta-save-everyone-whether-they-asked-for-it-or-not contingent. Next?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Its not a racial slur. Indians called themselves redskins. Some people have too much free time. >>
Indians called themselves redskins? That's a new one. No, they didn't. And I still have yet to hear one compelling argument in keeping the racially offensive slur 'Redskin'.
A couple of references for those who think this is a 'new' effort to ban this racially insensitive term (quotes and sources from wikipedia):
"Slang epithet … Redskin is regarded as highly offensive," to native Americans Herbst, Philip (1997). Color of Words: An Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Ethnic Bias in the United States. Intercultural Press. p. 197. ISBN 1877864978."
"Slang identifiers for ethnic groups based upon physical characteristics, including skin color, are almost universally slurs, or derogatory, emphasizing the difference between the speaker and the target. Unkind Words: Ethnic Labeling from Redskin to WASP. Praeger. p. 18. ISBN 0897892208."