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Obvious shilling? Collectors demolish shillers! 1975 Topps Mini Yount rookie PSA 9 = 1875.00!

Hi everyone,
I have not commented much on all the threads regarding shilling. Specifically because I know I have been shilled excessively over the years as I built my sets and I just felt like there is no use in crying about it. I've been agnostic understanding both sides of the argument - but personally believing it is wrong and not something I would engage in.
Now this! Obviously, when I went into the bid history I can easily see the behavior that gets so many of you heated.
It is a great card, great chance at a bump to 10, and one I would love to own but...

MEGA 1975T Mini Yount PSA9 rookie hammer = 1875

Background on this card: Population = 67 PSA 9s and 9 PSA 10s. (many of the top cards are probably from a sheet cut run many years ago as investigated by Jim (Duffett). This card almost always comes up O/C naturally so I don't expect the few cases/boxes left to impact the population. It is known among Mini experts that this card is significantly harder to find in high grade than the Brett. There are around 5 obviously short (cut) Yount rookies that tend to circulate every couple years (maybe total 6-10 short, and easy to see looking at jpgs on VCP). One pathetically short Yount rookie is the Dimitri Young PSA 10 (same with Brett).
Opinions? I don't know how this can be stopped to be honest.
75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!
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Comments

  • why do you think its shilling and why would you not bid until the last few minutes ? bidding early drives the price up for people start getting attached.

    maybe its being bid high because of :

    This card is dead centered with "pack-fresh" color & gloss. We can honestly tell you that this card is pristine in every respect. We have no clue whatsoever why this card isn't in a PSA 10 holder. It is that nice!
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,220 ✭✭


    << <i>why do you think its shilling >>


    I understand that we all have to start somewhere, but when the 2 active bidders going after the card have ZERO feedback and a feedback of "2", it makes you wonder.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That number of bids, from bidders with a 0 and a 2, who haven't bid and aren't bidding on anything else but a 2K+ card, does seem rather unusual..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Looks like the item was removed? Can't find it on eBay.


  • << <i>why do you think its shilling...? >>



    Seriously?


  • << <i>Looks like the item was removed? Can't find it on eBay. >>



    It's there - try the link above? In regards to actual valuation - I did a bit of research. The last Yount 10 sold March this year for 5322.00 (Monster auction, I actually remember it). No Yount 10s surfaced after this. The Yount 9 is VCP'ed currently at 480.50 with high variability because some butchered Younts occasionally come up for auction. So I don't know that this price is extreme if the buyer believes it has a legit shot at 10 (I was sniping north of 1K but am rethinking now). Just interesting to witness yet another hammer price from the 70s - but can we say it is legit with the obvious shilling?
    75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!
  • Looking at the bid history the current high bidder must have had stacked 3 more bids on top of the high one. Then the shill sharks smell blood in water and come out to eat. The $50 bid increments until they reach the top bid aren't too suspicious....
    From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo.
    ~WalterSobchak
  • royalbrettroyalbrett Posts: 620 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I've been agnostic understanding both sides of the argument >>


    What other side of the argument?
    Yeah, I uploaded that KC icon in 2001
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    I don't "know" that the run was sheet cut as I did not sub it, nor did I grade them. There were rumors of a sheet horde at the time.

    It has also been speculated that the run came from a "cut card case". This is possible in the sense that you can hit a very good run and cards may be just undersized, but I have never seen a cut card case where the size of a specific card varied. In other words, all the mario mendoza's might not match a wax version precisely for size, but they will match each other for size.

    I can say this: I have collected minis for better than 30 years, well before TPGs and have always been a snob for high end cards. I have also opened several cases of wax minis as well as probably half of the surviving rack population over the last ten years. I have never gotten a 9 or better on a yount. Never felt robbed either. The card is that hard.

    The cert run of which the card on ebay now came from yielded 4 10s and 9 9s out of 13 cards. The following 13 cards were all bretts 9 and 10. A number of these cards are oversized l/r and in non mini holders. A Brett 9 is on ebay now as well from this run, also oversized l/r.

    Bottom line, it is my educated guess and nothing more.

    To the point of the card for sale now, regardless of what I think of its origins, it is beautiful and I have bid on it, but give me a break on the shills already. By the way, this has been happening on high end Bretts as well, and not with the same seller.
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    By the way, if someone really does want to pay well for a gorgeous, shill free Yount, I just listed mine for 1499.99 BIN :-)
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got shilled once a long time ago. Now I just bid what I decide the card is worth to me and let it go at that.

    At least the shilling/bidding is being done early and you can walk away.

    Personally, I don't see this card as being worth any where near this price. I don't care how tough it is.

    Edited to add; there's a guy with 271 feedback willing to pay $1700.00 for it.

    image
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭
    I don't think you can ever know it's a shill. Maybe it's a novice bidder? Maybe the guy with 271 feedback was the shill and nobody took his bait? If the shill bids $1,675, when already above fair market value, that's sort of risky to be shilling as you might win it. Plus, what's the gain? $50?
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    Don't kid yourself. It is a shill. The high bidder right now has been extremely aggressive with minis for a while now, to the point of outbidding Henry, something few of us thought possible. There could not be an easier mark to shill.
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭
    The other day I was looking at an SGC 88 1969 Mantle (Lionel Carter). It went for good money......and was listed again within a day and a half by the original seller and sold again. The 1st time it sold....the bids looked weird. These auctions are really kind of sad.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    easier than ever to "win" and not pay.

    wonder how many 2nd chance fish are biting on it after suffering the indignity of "losing"?
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Don't kid yourself. It is a shill. The high bidder right now has been extremely aggressive with minis for a while now, to the point of outbidding Henry, something few of us thought possible. There could not be an easier mark to shill. >>



    Let's say you are right. Why on earth would anybody bid a significant bid before the auction ends? Doing anything other than a snipe just exposes yourself to this.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    There has not been a real bid on this auction since $999......


  • << <i>

    << <i>I've been agnostic understanding both sides of the argument >>


    What other side of the argument? >>



    I don't know that I would do justice in explaining the "other-side" but some of the arguments I have heard are:

    1. It is a form of safety bid, or reserve price by the seller (obvious not what is happening here). There is a perverse logic to the seller - shilling his/her own auction in order to provide a floor with the threat that they win their own card and pay the fees as a penalty. Thus, there have been many threads discussing the advantage to cosigning cards to 3rd party ebayers like Probstein and PWCC which allows the seller to easily shill their own cards.
    2. In an open bidding system it is part of the game - I disagree because for example, in an art auction where everyone is present you can easily tell if someone is trying to bid things up because they are physically present, in internet auctions it is easy to create dummy accounts, like in this auction, and "shill" anonymously.

    However, I believe that there are two distinct parties that have an interest to shill a card up: seller, other collectors. The other collector angle has not been discussed enough IMO.

    When I re-entered collecting in 2006 I was shilled or chip-bid mercilessly in minis because. I didn't know how to use auction-snipers and thus ignorantly threw out my max bids immediately when the cards would come up on ebay. Most of the chip bids against me were not from the seller - but from another collector/s of minis who easily learned my bidding patterns and then would chip up the price I paid for the card. They had motive to see the prices paid for the cards by other collectors increase to buttress their own investment. There is yet again a perverse logic here. I do not condone the behavior but the logic behind it is rational self-interest. So, shilling from a self-interested 3rd party would be appropriate from the principles of Adam Smith and rational economics - it is a clearing mechanism for open markets. I learned my lessons the hard way and finally went to auction raptor.

    Still, it is too easy to determine who the bidders are (the ebay system is useless for those with knowledge). People who track auctions know all the players in each set. Therefore, astute sellers and shillers can still force you to pay your maximum ceiling with a bit of investigation. That is where I become agnostic and just look at it as the price to play and unless you can stomach it - go buy art.

    75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!


  • << <i>There has not been a real bid on this auction since $999...... >>



    I believe you nailed it: My estimate was that this card should stabilize around 800-1000.00 for a legit strong 9 (based on the movement for key cards across the whole decade). Now the card up for auction is obviously a VERY strong 9. So what is the true value? Obviously, the bidder/s are looking at this as a potential bump to 10 knowing the price that 10s are fetching. So it is a gamble, usually the experienced buyer/s will place their bet via snipe but in this case it is all open due to the chipping/shilling. It is just interesting to me. As we know when an auction like this occurs - it usually pries many more examples from seclusion and I expect several Yount 9s to come up soon and we'll see a more accurate equilibrium point.

    EDIT: if the guy does win the card at that price, I hope he reviews it and it comes back a 10 - looks like a 10 to me.
    75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    I actually tend to agree with Henry's assessment here as I have seen similar patterns with high profile minis in general the last few months. He is also mostly accurate as to what happened to him years ago, though I will confess that much of what he spent went along with a scream of "Damn You MintMoonDog!!!" as I lost yet another card I wanted as well. I can't tell you how many times I sat there think about a common 9 "ok, this should go for 30~, I'll bid 50 to be safe" and found out later that Henry was sitting at 100.
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions


  • << <i>

    << <i>why do you think its shilling >>


    I understand that we all have to start somewhere, but when the 2 active bidders going after the card have ZERO feedback and a feedback of "2", it makes you wonder. >>



    maybe, I use to sell a lot on ebay not cards but I own a business , we transferred over to Amazon but the way bids are it does not seem unusual. Lot of it is automatic bidding, you put in I will bid 2k grand and it does it automatically.

    In my opinion with collectibles it is known buyers or sellers hiding their ids. Since you can as many ebay accounts as you want , most serious collectors or sellers will create new accounts so people do not find how who they are. Its about staying anonymous , I do it and all a lot other buyers too. I have 10 or so ebay screennames , just so people do not start tracking my sales etc or start bidding me up.

    Ebay has done a tremendous job over the years in preventing shilling, their software for tracking such things is amazing. I find it hard to believe that its shilling, to me its serious bidders hiding their id .
  • Indy78Indy78 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭
    It'll be interesting to see if one of those two "serious bidders" hits the BIN on MiniDuff's Yount PSA 9.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Ebay has done a tremendous job over the years in preventing shilling, their software for tracking such things is amazing. I find it hard to believe that its shilling, to me its serious bidders hiding their id . >>




    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
  • Indy78Indy78 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭
    People who track auctions know all the players in each set. Therefore, astute sellers and shillers can still force you to pay your maximum ceiling with a bit of investigation

    I too agree with Henry. I'm sure there are many motivating factors for the scenario painted by Henry, not the least of which is simple gamesmanship related to position on the registry. That's why when I see strange bidding practices (like chip bidding or shilling or whatever you want to call it), I don't rule out the questionable bidder being a higher positioned registry collector protecting their position on the registry or a like positioned registry collector trying to drain the other's budget in the short term to clear out the competition.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    Ebay has done a tremendous job over the years in preventing shilling, their software for tracking such things is amazing. I find it hard to believe that its shilling, to me its serious bidders hiding their id . >>




    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah >>



    again you have no idea how things works

    eBay uses very sophisticated tools to catch shill bidders, so sophisticated that many first-time shills are surprised.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    Ebay has done a tremendous job over the years in preventing shilling, their software for tracking such things is amazing. I find it hard to believe that its shilling, to me its serious bidders hiding their id . >>




    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah >>



    again you have no idea how things works

    eBay uses very sophisticated tools to catch shill bidders, so sophisticated that many first-time shills are surprised. >>



    I find this claim rather dubious as I see the same sellers enlisting the same shill bidders over and over again. I don't think ebay has any real interest in preventing shill bidders because it makes them even more money in final value fees. That's just the nature of the beast.

    And while we're at it, whatever happened to scrutinizing multiple bid retractions? There are some bidders with more than 100 bid retractions in the last six months and ebay does nothing about it.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    sure. of course. when high profile cards get bid up to the sky and then reappear for auction or over-inflated BIN with the exact same seller, then everything must be on the up and up. spot on. bingo.


  • << <i>sure. of course. when high profile cards get bid up to the sky and then reappear for auction or over-inflated BIN with the exact same seller, then everything must be on the up and up. spot on. bingo. >>



    Jeff, I'll congratulate your 9000th post with my 1000thimage

    I never thought of your angle, but that also makes sense. I haven't run across that strategy often, but I wouldn't know given how many bids I am throwing out there.
    75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!
  • post removed
  • ClockworkAngelClockworkAngel Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭
    There has not been a PSA 9 Yount for sale since March. Even in the last 7 months the market for cards like this has been skyrocketing. In fact, there have been 7 Brett 9's sold in that time at or around the 1K mark. Yount has not had a chance to "catch up to the Brett" in terms of the market for 9's. And considering the Yount is significantly harder to find than the Brett, it's not totally shocking to see this price

    And, as we all know well, there are PSA 9's that are on the cusp of an 8.5 and 9's on the cusp of a 10. PSA 9's that are as nice as this Yount have always commanded much higher prices, as they should....this is as high end a 9 as you will find.
    I would think that the buyer would have to give a review a shot, but PSA has been awfully stingy lately
    The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase
    TheClockworkAngelCollection
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>People who track auctions know all the players in each set. Therefore, astute sellers and shillers can still force you to pay your maximum ceiling with a bit of investigation >>



    No one can MAKE you pay anything for a baseball card. If you are not happy with the price, do not bid. People get too caught up in "having" to posses these pieces of cardboard.

    Have I overpaid for some of my items? Probably, but never more than I was comfortable with, other than one time.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    Ebay has done a tremendous job over the years in preventing shilling, their software for tracking such things is amazing. I find it hard to believe that its shilling, to me its serious bidders hiding their id . >>




    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah >>



    again you have no idea how things works

    eBay uses very sophisticated tools to catch shill bidders, so sophisticated that many first-time shills are surprised. >>



    I find this claim rather dubious as I see the same sellers enlisting the same shill bidders over and over again. I don't think ebay has any real interest in preventing shill bidders because it makes them even more money in final value fees. That's just the nature of the beast.

    And while we're at it, whatever happened to scrutinizing multiple bid retractions? There are some bidders with more than 100 bid retractions in the last six months and ebay does nothing about it. >>



    the whole shiller thing is a myth. its just people with deep pockets who follow certain sellers.

    I use to list not cards , but general merchandise and collectibles on ebay I had over 200,000 feedbacks and I saw the same kind of activity on all my accounts. I never shilled , it was just the way things are. I had the same buyers always bidding, new buyers, bid retractions, all this stuff all the time. Nothing that I look at looks unusual to me.

    I limited the amount of items an individual buyer could bid on at one time or buy at one time, so they would have like 5 accounts to bid on things. I did not like one buyer buying 12 items at once. I always thought it suspect that it might be fraud etc, but to me, this looks like normal eBay bidding.

    So IMO after selling hundreds of thousands of items on Ebay , I really do not think its shill bidding.
  • ClockworkAngelClockworkAngel Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭
    I am sure there is plenty of shilling going on on eBay. But I don't think it is happening as much as many conspiracy theorists think
    The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase
    TheClockworkAngelCollection
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am sure there is plenty of shilling going on on eBay. But I don't think it is happening as much as many conspiracy theorists think >>



    I am betting that's why the consignors are getting more for their cards.

    I would NEVER bid higher on a card because of the seller. Unless it's a new seller or one with a bad reputation, I go for the best available card, regardless of the seller. Haven't been burned yet.

    Again, shill bidding has little effect on me, I only bid what I am willing to pay, (usually with a snipe) if I don't win, no big deal.

    Emotional bidding can leave a BAD taste in your mouth and a hole in your savings account or wallet.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I am sure there is plenty of shilling going on on eBay. But I don't think it is happening as much as many conspiracy theorists think >>



    I am betting that's why the consignors are getting more for their cards.

    I would NEVER bid higher on a card because of the seller. Unless it's a new seller or one with a bad reputation, I go for the best available card, regardless of the seller. Haven't been burned yet.

    Again, shill bidding has little effect on me, I only bid what I am willing to pay, (usually with a snipe) if I don't win, no big deal.

    Emotional bidding can leave a BAD taste in your mouth and a hole in your savings account or wallet. >>



    Even with a snipe, shilling can most certainly affect you if the shiller has artificially pumped up the price and your snipe wins the auction at a higher price than it would have sold for otherwise. Sure, you might have been willing to pay as much anyway but if you would have won the item for less without the shilling, that's still money taken out of your pocket.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • ClockworkAngelClockworkAngel Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭
    Tim good point.

    As others have said, it is what it is. All we can do is put the price in we are willing to go and see what happens.

    I know I've been shilled a few times. I imagine most of us have. A necessary evil of what we do...?

    The Clockwork Angel Collection...brought to you by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Chase
    TheClockworkAngelCollection
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I am sure there is plenty of shilling going on on eBay. But I don't think it is happening as much as many conspiracy theorists think >>



    I am betting that's why the consignors are getting more for their cards.

    I would NEVER bid higher on a card because of the seller. Unless it's a new seller or one with a bad reputation, I go for the best available card, regardless of the seller. Haven't been burned yet.

    Again, shill bidding has little effect on me, I only bid what I am willing to pay, (usually with a snipe) if I don't win, no big deal.

    Emotional bidding can leave a BAD taste in your mouth and a hole in your savings account or wallet. >>



    Even with a snipe, shilling can most certainly affect you if the shiller has artificially pumped up the price and your snipe wins the auction at a higher price than it would have sold for otherwise. Sure, you might have been willing to pay as much anyway but if you would have won the item for less without the shilling, that's still money taken out of your pocket. >>



    Absolutely correct!

    However as long as I get the card at what I feel is a fair price, I feel OK. It's only been in the past when I bid way too high and won an item that I was not happy about it.

    No real way to eliminate shilling, but if we just don't OVER bid on items because we HAVE to own it, that will make it harder for the shill bidders to drive up the prices so astronomically.

    Bid retractions, another way to drive up prices, could certainly be eliminated or at least restricted, but NOTHING is being done about that. I feel retractions are a much bigger problem, a shill bidder is just guessing what to bid and if he/she overbids, you are "off the hook" for that item. When a retraction occurs your high bid can be exposed. If you win in this example you win at your maximum bid, whereas a shiller might not bid that high, just to make sure he/she doesn't win the item.

    I assume ebay doesn't care about either issue, higher winning bids mean higher fees for them.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • best way to prevent shilling and retractions is not to bid till the last minute of the auction. Not sure why people bid before then .


  • << <i>best way to prevent shilling and retractions is not to bid till the last minute of the auction. Not sure why people bid before then . >>




    ??????

    You understand that shilling is done by the sellers, right? If they want to bid it up with six different accounts, there is nothing I can do to prevent that.

    As for bidding, I sometimes put in my highest bid whenever I can, because I may not necessarily be tied to eBay at 3:27 AM on a Tuesday night.


  • << <i>

    << <i>best way to prevent shilling and retractions is not to bid till the last minute of the auction. Not sure why people bid before then . >>




    ??????

    You understand that shilling is done by the sellers, right? If they want to bid it up with six different accounts, there is nothing I can do to prevent that.

    As for bidding, I sometimes put in my highest bid whenever I can, because I may not necessarily be tied to eBay at 3:27 AM on a Tuesday night. >>



    I understand that you think a seller could do that on eBay I'm telling you that is impossible eBay tracks all ip addresses Mac addresses and blocks proxy ip addresses. They know everything about each computer loggining in including computers names , model , make , mobile phones location , ips , just about everything and has a great set of tools to bust your ass. Try it sometime , sell something on eBay and try to bid on it from another account or any other way you think you can get away with it.

    Unlike being a buyer. The seller safe guards are very complex.

    But in the shill game you don't run up the bidding with multiple accounts by themselves you would get to the point where bidding would be unattractive to most bidders. Bidding early is the dumbest thing you could ever do. I had a friend who loved to bid on cars he never intended to buy to raise the price. For some people that is a very fun game.

    If you bid early you are setting yourself up for paying to much, for those kind of bid trolls will keep increasing ur bid dollar at a time. They know what the average selling price is and will test it. There are all kinds of weird people out there. Now early bidders will keep increasing their bid and someone will bid 10 dollars more for fun and on and on. If they go over they will ask eBay for a retraction.

    Why start a bidding war anyways ? It's 2013 there is software out there that will bid for you right before an auction ends. Google eBay snipe tools.

    Bad eBay strategy is believing you can intimidate others from bidding by making strong bids early. Only thing you are going to do is to test your bids and make you and who ever else is bidding pay to much. You out bid someone 3 days before an auction ends you are going to give them time to think and decide to bid higher. Take that away and bid strong at the end and that takes away both time to think and time to bid
  • Right, because those people with 0 feedback who have 100% bidding activity with one seller and 40 bid retractions are just unlucky.

    What on earth are you talking about with "strategy"? If an item starts at $.99 and I am willing to pay $75 for it,
    I can put in $75 right now and it still shows up as me being the top bidder at $.99.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I understand that you think a seller could do that on eBay I'm telling you that is impossible eBay tracks all ip addresses Mac addresses and blocks proxy ip addresses. They know everything about each computer loggining in including computers names , model , make , mobile phones location , ips , just about everything and has a great set of tools to bust your ass. Try it sometime , sell something on eBay and try to bid on it from another account or any other way you think you can get away with it.

    >>



    You're assuming that shilling sellers are stupid and would have a second account at the same location
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period. >>



    +1



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.


  • << <i>Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period. >>



    The only thing that protects you from shill bidding is sticking to a maximum that is based on real (not shill) value of a product.

    It does not matter when you bid, if you stick to this value you are safe from the shill.

    If you actually want to win the item, however, sniping in the last few seconds is the best way to do it.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period. >>



    The only thing that protects you from shill bidding is sticking to a maximum that is based on real (not shill) value of a product.

    It does not matter when you bid, if you stick to this value you are safe from the shill.

    If you actually want to win the item, however, sniping in the last few seconds is the best way to do it. >>




    There are no bidding techniques that completely insulate you from shill bidding. Just because something doesn't finish at a record price doesn't mean it wasn't boosted by artificial bids. You may feel fine with the price because it was in the range of comfort but had a few bids not been placed it may have been won for a much lower price.


  • If eBay was really concerned about shill bidding they would make the user names visible again. Not that it would stop shilling, but it might put a small dent into it.
    From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo.
    ~WalterSobchak


  • << <i>

    << <i>Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period. >>



    +1 >>



    Correct, however, sniping does protect you from chip bidding - this is what you see in the Yount auction where someone (seller or competing collector) bids in increments to uncover your maximum.
    75 Minis - GET IN MY BELLY!


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Snipe bidding in no way shape or form protects you from shill bidding. Period. >>



    The only thing that protects you from shill bidding is sticking to a maximum that is based on real (not shill) value of a product.

    It does not matter when you bid, if you stick to this value you are safe from the shill.

    If you actually want to win the item, however, sniping in the last few seconds is the best way to do it. >>




    There are no bidding techniques that completely insulate you from shill bidding. Just because something doesn't finish at a record price doesn't mean it wasn't boosted by artificial bids. You may feel fine with the price because it was in the range of comfort but had a few bids not been placed it may have been won for a much lower price. >>





    It depends on your point of view I guess. You can see it as a reserve price then, and it has the same effect in the long run. I know everyone seems worried about shill bidding here, but it is really not that big of a deal if you just do a little research.

    Knowledge is the best defense.


  • << <i>It depends on your point of view I guess. You can see it as a reserve price then, and it has the same effect in the long run. I know everyone seems worried about shill bidding here, but it is really not that big of a deal if you just do a little research.

    Knowledge is the best defense. >>




    What bothers me is if the seller is that much of a con artist to shill his items, what else is he scamming me on?
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