Indian Head cent experts needed for 1875 1c....
DoubleEagle59
Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've never seen this before.
Raised line going through feathers and underneath the stem of feather and then showing up again down by the ribbon! (trust me, it's NOT a scratch).
What's going on?
Raised line going through feathers and underneath the stem of feather and then showing up again down by the ribbon! (trust me, it's NOT a scratch).
What's going on?
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
0
Comments
Looks like a die scratch to me!
Hoard the keys.
If you want it listed, you should send it to me. (PM me for info)
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I would think such a disruption would be unusual for a scratch.
???It otherwise sure does look like one however.
<< <i>Funny for a die scratch in that it does not appear to go thru the stem of the 3rd feather.
I would think such a disruption would be unusual for a scratch.
???It otherwise sure does look like one however. >>
The shaft of the third feather is deeper into the die than the barbs on either side of it; that's why it is higher than the barbs on the coin. The heavy die scratch through the barbs skipped over the trench that forms the shaft.
the year, 1875 is SIGNIFICANT
A long while back i remember reading that in 1875 the US mint accused one of the coin press operators of stealing. ( pennies - yes pennies).
So as to be able to catch the thief red handed- the cent dies were given secret marks ( dots - mostly, - I have seen at least two with different dot locations, yes, perfectly formed dots , and I currently own one in mint state
but now it may appear maybe - file mark as well?!!!
The dies were marked, some coins were then struck with this secret mark one one day only, and at the end of the day- everyone was made to empty their pockets before leaving the mint. anyone found to have the marked cents was a thief. No one could claim to have received them in change or brought them from home since they had never been released.
Anyways that's my "two cents"
Im not exactly sure where i read about the marked cents of 1875, but my recollection is that i read this in one of Q David Bower's books when i was growing up some 30+ years ago.
about 10 years ago, When i came across my dot cent i asked Davisd about the story, and he couldn't / did not remember - not surprising since he has written so many books and done so much research that is has got to be hard to keep it all in.
anyone else remember this story or can add to it?
<< <i>Looks like a 1875 "Hair pin" - nice!
"Hairpin" variety is an excellent name!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Ok,
the year, 1875 is SIGNIFICANT
A long while back i remember reading that in 1875 the US mint accused one of the coin press operators of stealing. ( pennies - yes pennies).
So as to be able to catch the thief red handed- the cent dies were given secret marks ( dots - mostly, - I have seen at least two with different dot locations, yes, perfectly formed dots , and I currently own one in mint state
but now it may appear maybe - file mark as well?!!!
The dies were marked, some coins were then struck with this secret mark one one day only, and at the end of the day- everyone was made to empty their pockets before leaving the mint. anyone found to have the marked cents was a thief. No one could claim to have received them in change or brought them from home since they had never been released.
Anyways that's my "two cents"
Im not exactly sure where i read about the marked cents of 1875, but my recollection is that i read this in one of Q David Bower's books when i was growing up some 30+ years ago.
about 10 years ago, When i came across my dot cent i asked Davisd about the story, and he couldn't / did not remember - not surprising since he has written so many books and done so much research that is has got to be hard to keep it all in.
anyone else remember this story or can add to it? >>
Never heard of this but wouldn't it be fascinating if it's true.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
couple years now.
It's also listed in the Professional Edition Red Book.
By the way, the "IDA" I was referring in my first post was the intentional die alteration, aka dot reverse
I believe the story arose from an actual letter describing the incident. It was first published in Numismatic Scrapbook magazine around 1962. Possibly by forum member Denga.
A likely candidate for the marked cent turned up at Stack's Rarities in 2007 and was publicized by Q. David Bowers and subsequently put in the Red Book. The actual discovery coin (MS60 cleaned) was not marketed for profit as the coin was later just put in a lot in one of their sales in 2008 unattributed. I bought it for the price of a regular 1875 cent. I still have it. I have sold a few examples - MS65+RD $20K, MS-64RB for $5K . I would guess between 10 and 15 have been found, but I personally know of only 7 examples. The discovery coin is pictured in this link.
The OP's coin does not look like an intentional mark on the die, just a die file mark that scored the raised areas on the die in the portrait area.
I'm more in the striking/mechanical errors.
For my two cents worth, I'd say that it's
more severe than a die scratch - I'd call
it either a die gouge, or as Rick has said,
a file mark.....but it's thicker that just a
'scratch', imo.
<< <i>Regarding the "Dot" cent:
I believe the story arose from an actual letter describing the incident. It was first published in Numismatic Scrapbook magazine around 1962. Possibly by forum member Denga.
A likely candidate for the marked cent turned up at Stack's Rarities in 2007 and was publicized by Q. David Bowers and subsequently put in the Red Book. The actual discovery coin (MS60 cleaned) was not marketed for profit as the coin was later just put in a lot in one of their sales in 2008 unattributed. I bought it for the price of a regular 1875 cent. I still have it. I have sold a few examples - MS65+RD $20K, MS-64RB for $5K . I would guess between 10 and 15 have been found, but I personally know of only 7 examples. The discovery coin is pictured in this link.
The OP's coin does not look like an intentional mark on the die, just a die file mark that scored the raised areas on the die in the portrait area. >>
Indeed, a "likely candidate," but it has never been proven that the dot-marked die was the die used by the Mint to catch the thief.
<< <i>That's a remarkably noticeable gouge. Were you able to see it with the naked eye before you put some magnification on it? >>
No, I couldn't see it very quickly without magnification, but if your eyesight is sharp, it's noticeable.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Exactly, barring a sealed envelope from the period with some testimonial, it is impossible to say for sure what die was marked.
ex. What if there were two thief at mint. first sting nabs 1 thief. second thief continues to steal, but checks the coins coming off die for dot on reverse- hmmm, no dot, i can pilfer these,
whoops except, now dot is on obverse- he goes to jail
will try to post a pic of my 1875 dot obverse ( on ribbon) soon.