Is it time for the Hal McRae rule to be applied for running into the catcher?
pocketpiececommems
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Is it time to give the catcher a little more protection after watching Ross bowl over Aviles? I'm not a fan of either team but it does seem that a player trying to score should make an attempt to touch home plate.
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<< <i>Is it time to give the catcher a little more protection after watching Ross bowl over Aviles? I'm not a fan of either team but it does seem that a player trying to score should make an attempt to touch home plate. >>
Your kidding me right? We are talking about the ALCS, it was a great play by both involved, the deal was that Ross wanted to knock the ball out of his glove and did what Aviles was prepared for.
After the dust settled Ross gives him a "good job slap" on the backside, respect was shown game continues...
<< <i>The catcher shouldn't be allowed to set up shop like that in front of the plate. It's interference. We don't allow it at any other base, but at home its allowed? >>
I could have pre-typed that response from you... lol.
Yes, it's allowed... it's baseball.
If a player chooses to block the plate that a runner has a right to, then he can legally get run over, because the runner has a right to that base.
That play is perfectly legal, and the Detroit catcher is the one who brought about that scenario last night. If he would have positioned himself to
use the swipe tag, he would have never been run over.
<< <i>Defenders can set up shop in front of any base if they have the ball. >>
Yep and anyone that says otherwise is simply ignorant of the rules. As Roar pointed out, you typically don't see it often at other bases due to the fact players would prefer not getting spiked. Nothing new, it's only been going on for over a hundred years. Heh.
To be honest, I thought Cabrera took it easy on him. He was out by so far, the only chance Miggy had was to knock the ball out, but he didn't really try. I had no problem with either play.
<< <i>
To be honest, I thought Cabrera took it easy on him. . >>
Cabrera was too hurt to stop and go back to the base after he saw the sign from the 3rd base coach, let alone
try to run over the catcher. He'd take the chance of being out for the rest of the series if he went full blown into the catcher.
Here's a good article on the evolution of the "Tools of Ignorance."
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>I think we'll see newer forms of catching gear before we see a rule passed to ban home-plate collisions. >>
I am sure, but these collisions are riduclous and should be outlawed, just like they outlawed the 'spikes up' approach to sliding into bases. They aren't a baseball play, they don't enhance the game at all, and in actuality are actually a detraction, and yes, I know it's been around forever - but things change.
<< <i> I know it's been around forever - but things change. >>
Like user IDs?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think we'll see newer forms of catching gear before we see a rule passed to ban home-plate collisions. >>
I am sure, but these collisions are riduclous and should be outlawed, just like they outlawed the 'spikes up' approach to sliding into bases. They aren't a baseball play, they don't enhance the game at all, and in actuality are actually a detraction, and yes, I know it's been around forever - but things change. >>
The Fosse injury didn't change anything. The Santana injury didn't change anything. The Posey injury didn't change anything.
It'll probably take a player becoming a quadriplegic before the baseball brass does anything about it.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
The Fosse injury didn't change anything. The Santana injury didn't change anything. The Posey injury didn't change anything.
It'll probably take a player becoming a quadriplegic before the baseball brass does anything about it. >>
Mike Matheny went on record as saying the St. Louis Cardinals teach their catchers to not block home plate entirely.
If anything has to be changed, then all you need are major league teams instructing their catchers to never block home plate, that way, if a catcher
ever does block the plate, it is all on him.
I think you have to give the catchers the assurance that they will not be scolded if they don't block home plate, and apply the swipe tag instead.
There's also the issue with wins and losses because that's not fair. For the World Series, rather than a competitive best of 7 series, it should be a celebration with all MLBers getting together for pizza and root beer. Hooray!
<< <i>Mike Matheny went on record as saying the St. Louis Cardinals teach their catchers to not block home plate entirely.
If anything has to be changed, then all you need are major league teams instructing their catchers to never block home plate, that way, if a catcher
ever does block the plate, it is all on him.
I think you have to give the catchers the assurance that they will not be scolded if they don't block home plate, and apply the swipe tag instead. >>
That's one thing to do. Another would be to make it so that if the catcher has the ball, any contact with the glove is an automatic out, regardless of if he hangs on or not.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>We need to look after players' safety because they don't know any better. HBP should be illegal, regardless of circumstances, with the violator sitting in time-out for an inning. To ensure the batter's safety in case of a rouge pitcher, they should place protective plexi-glass in front of home plate. We also need to address the players' feelings, such as a stolen base could be perceived as showing up the pitcher. Ban them too.
There's also the issue with wins and losses because that's not fair. For the World Series, rather than a competitive best of 7 series, it should be a celebration with all MLBers getting together for pizza and root beer. Hooray! >>
And YOU dare to call people out on strawmen? Give. Me. A. Break.
These home plates collisions dont add anything to the game. The only people who think it does are the same 'fans' who think fighting adds to hockey.
How stupid.......the play was legal on both sides. The runner has every right to the plate. If all the catcher had to do was block the plate and the runner couldn't go into him....then the runner would be automatically out!!
How totally STUPID!!!!
<< <i>Looks like Baseball is another sport 1985fan doesn't know squat about!
How stupid.......the play was legal on both sides. The runner has every right to the plate. If all the catcher had to do was block the plate and the runner couldn't go into him....then the runner would be automatically out!!
How totally STUPID!!!! >>
I never said it wasn't legal. I said its th type of play that doesn't belong in baseball. Try reading and comprehending next time.
<< <i>Studies show 3% of catchers have been hit in the head either before or after a swing. That's absolutely barbaric, like kicking innocent puppies! The only acceptable swing should be a bunt, while safely behind protective plexi-glass. >>
Maybe then maybe minor league teams like the Astros would have a chance.
Boy, you are stupid on being stupid! I didn't say that you said it was illegal. I simply stated how stupid it would be to make that play illegal!
You must enjoy being or just like to get your post count up!
<< <i>
<< <i>We need to look after players' safety because they don't know any better. HBP should be illegal, regardless of circumstances, with the violator sitting in time-out for an inning. To ensure the batter's safety in case of a rouge pitcher, they should place protective plexi-glass in front of home plate. We also need to address the players' feelings, such as a stolen base could be perceived as showing up the pitcher. Ban them too.
There's also the issue with wins and losses because that's not fair. For the World Series, rather than a competitive best of 7 series, it should be a celebration with all MLBers getting together for pizza and root beer. Hooray! >>
And YOU dare to call people out on strawmen? Give. Me. A. Break.
These home plates collisions dont add anything to the game. The only people who think it does are the same 'fans' who think fighting adds to hockey. >>
I never said it wasn't legal. I said its th type of play that doesn't belong in baseball. Try reading and comprehending next time. >>
Its sorta like your being politicaly correct which I hate! Im not saying you are but think about this reasonably, if we take this out of the game then a catcher gets the ball and the runner is supposed to stop running home? its not even remotely possible, to try and change this rule which has been part of baseball since the 1800's would be so outside the box its absurd.
Fighting in Hockey also has been part of the game since day 1, the concussion thing in the NFL is one thing ( Not leading with your head ) I get and agree with however any more needling of rules in todays sports is just what is wrong with this country today, EVERYONE gets freaked out at the littlest thing, people for the most part are complete wimps, wipe the freaking dirt off ya and get back in there and play the game.
For what its worth Im not sure if your actually drinking your own kool aid or not because I know you got alot of beefs with other posters here but you have never bothered me so I refuse to pile on and will banter with you in civil way.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
While we're at it let's give every player a trophy for just showing up.
The pu$$ification of America continues.
<< <i>While we're at it let's give every player a trophy for just showing up.
The pu$$ification of America continues. >>
Right, as if looking out for player safety makes people less of a man. Did it make the sport less manly when they outlawed sliding in spikes up? Or maybe, just maybe, looking out for players' long term health is more important than you sitting on your couch cheering for violence?
<< <i>
Its sorta like your being politicaly correct which I hate!
>>
I hear what you're saying, but what's more important? Allowing these collisions to occur (which don't happen all that often to begin with) or looking out for the long term health aspects of these players? They already are exposed to a ridiculously long schedule as it is, this just adds on to the physical toll of a season which has never been longer in terms of pure hours on the field, what with game times growing longer and longer.
<< <i> Im not saying you are but think about this reasonably, if we take this out of the game then a catcher gets the ball and the runner is supposed to stop running home? its not even remotely possible, to try and change this rule which has been part of baseball since the 1800's would be so outside the box its absurd. >>
Just because it would be hard to do doesn't mean we turn our back on it. If we turned away from any difficult challenge, MLB would still be segregated.
<< <i>Fighting in Hockey also has been part of the game since day 1, the concussion thing in the NFL is one thing ( Not leading with your head ) I get and agree with however any more needling of rules in todays sports is just what is wrong with this country today, EVERYONE gets freaked out at the littlest thing, people for the most part are complete wimps, wipe the freaking dirt off ya and get back in there and play the game. >>
I think the ever-growing number of NFL players who have committed suicide due to repetitive brain injury might take issue with that statement. Brain injuries aren't 'the littlest thing', and Buster Posey losing nearly an entire year to this play I think would disagree with you as well.
<< <i>For what its worth Im not sure if your actually drinking your own kool aid or not because I know you got alot of beefs with other posters here but you have never bothered me so I refuse to pile on and will banter with you in civil way. >>
Thank you.
<< <i>I really am curious as to what folks think about the instant-out-on-contact idea I posted above. >>
I'd be all for it. These collisions don't add to the sport in the slightest. If I wanted to watch someone tackling someone else, I'd watch football. This isn't a baseball play in any way, shape, or form.
<< <i>I really am curious as to what folks think about the instant-out-on-contact idea I posted above. >>
I don't think it should be instant, perhaps something comparable to like a fly out. For example, the runner is tagged, catcher gets bowled over (while still having the ball in control), and then if the catcher hits the ground and the ball pops out. That could be considered an out since the tag was applied and the catcher maintained possession, even if it's for a couple seconds.
<< <i>While we're at it let's give every player a trophy for just showing up.
The pu$$ification of America continues. >>
Yep and it's really sad. People that don't even participate in sports, much less any type of physical activities because they're too busy posting hate on forums while eating bags of Cheetos, demand what's best for everyone else.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
They have mad so many changes to football that it's almost impossible to play good hard defense.
Maybe it's not the "oh no, someone got horribly hurt on the field" element that is getting the ball rolling, but the "oh no, we just lost our catcher for the next few months."
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>I'm with SoPhillyFan. You can't keep changing the rules because of injuries. It's not that I don't care about the athletes because I do. >>
These are two completely conflicting statements.
<< <i> They know going into whatever sport that there are risks involved. Some rule changes have been made and was needed...like the spikes up slide. But this did not take away the runners ability to slide in safe. If the catcher chooses to block the plate then the runner has no recourse but to go thru him. You can't make the play at the plate a wuss play. >>
If the catcher is just off the plate trying to do a swipe tag at the plate, the runner is still allowed to barrel through them. That doesn't enhance the game in the slightest, and making it against the rules to crash through a guy doesn't take away from the game, either (only to those couch potatoes who think that a football play somehow makes baseball more 'manly').
<< <i>They have mad so many changes to football that it's almost impossible to play good hard defense. >>
We're not talking about football here, this is baseball.
Link
"In the aftermath of two home plate collisions in the American League Championship Series on Thursday, officials from other teams reiterated that they expect the topic of banning that play to be raised again in meetings this winter.
Given how quickly sentiment within the sport about collisions is shifting -- particularly as information about concussions has come to light, including the cost of concussion-related lawsuits faced by the National Football League -- some officials talk of change as inevitable and predict that it could come swiftly.
"At this point, I don't know who would argue to keep it, or what their argument would be," said one team official who believes general managers will address the topic at their meetings next month. "There is no reasoned argument to keep it [in the game]."
When asked about the topic after Game 5, Detroit Tigers manager Jim Leyland became the latest to say that he is in favor of change, and that he believes there will be change. Leyland is one of the 14 members of commissioner Bud Selig's advisory committee."
<< <i>
<< <i>
Its sorta like your being politicaly correct which I hate!
>>
I hear what you're saying, but what's more important? Allowing these collisions to occur (which don't happen all that often to begin with) or looking out for the long term health aspects of these players? They already are exposed to a ridiculously long schedule as it is, this just adds on to the physical toll of a season which has never been longer in terms of pure hours on the field, what with game times growing longer and longer. >>
Right wrong or indifferent these guys are adults and get paid STUPID money to play ball, they know the risks and make the decision to play by the rules that are set up.
If they chose not to take that risk then by all means get another job like ( Most ) of the rest of us, nobody forces these guys into this.
<< <i>Right wrong or indifferent these guys are adults and get paid STUPID money to play ball, they know the risks and make the decision to play by the rules that are set up. >>
No one to my knowledge has refused to play because they disagreed with the rules. They play the game by the rules and accept punishment when they play outside the rules. There are no MLB players who are refusing to play until they get a rule change or something.
So, what's the harm in talking about possibly tweaking something here or there that could possibly be in the best interest of player safety and team investment?
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>Right wrong or indifferent these guys are adults and get paid STUPID money to play ball, they know the risks and make the decision to play by the rules that are set up. >>
No one to my knowledge has refused to play because they disagreed with the rules. They play the game by the rules and accept punishment when they play outside the rules. There are no MLB players who are refusing to play until they get a rule change or something.
So, what's the harm in talking about possibly tweaking something here or there that could possibly be in the best interest of player safety and team investment? >>
No harm whatsoever and changes which do not alter the competitive nature of the sport should be considered. However we have to avoid dramatic changes such as those occurring now in the NFL that are not only effecting the game but may create other scenarios that are just as dangerous.
As for the Axtell/stitzen/1985fan/other alts comment regarding "cheering for violence from the couch." I cheer only for a good ballgame where the players are given the chance to use their skills in the most competitive manner possible.
Anyone who has played organized sports would understand.
<< <i>
<< <i>Right wrong or indifferent these guys are adults and get paid STUPID money to play ball, they know the risks and make the decision to play by the rules that are set up. >>
No one to my knowledge has refused to play because they disagreed with the rules. They play the game by the rules and accept punishment when they play outside the rules. There are no MLB players who are refusing to play until they get a rule change or something.
So, what's the harm in talking about possibly tweaking something here or there that could possibly be in the best interest of player safety and team investment? >>
No harm at all, but the fact that these guys play and dont even complain about the rules exacts my point. You want to talk about better equipment for the catcher for example then no harm whatsoever in fact I encourage it but to talk about not colliding with a catcher is absurd, again say the catcher gets the ball the baserunner is just supposed to stop running? These guys can stop running if they are so concerned with injury but Ive never seen it.
Good riddance!
<< <i>No harm at all, but the fact that these guys play and dont even complain about the rules exacts my point. You want to talk about better equipment for the catcher for example then no harm whatsoever in fact I encourage it but to talk about not colliding with a catcher is absurd, again say the catcher gets the ball the baserunner is just supposed to stop running? These guys can stop running if they are so concerned with injury but Ive never seen it. >>
Agreed. Catchers can wear more protective gear, there's no rule against that, they just elect not to. Everyone on the field and in the dugout know there's an inherent risk of blocking bases and the plate. If managers are *that* concerned about the catchers' safety, coach them to avoid collisions by simply taking a step outside of the baseline and apply a tag. It really is just that easy.
<< <i>
<< <i>No harm at all, but the fact that these guys play and dont even complain about the rules exacts my point. You want to talk about better equipment for the catcher for example then no harm whatsoever in fact I encourage it but to talk about not colliding with a catcher is absurd, again say the catcher gets the ball the baserunner is just supposed to stop running? These guys can stop running if they are so concerned with injury but Ive never seen it. >>
Agreed. Catchers can wear more protective gear, there's no rule against that, they just elect not to. Everyone on the field and in the dugout know there's an inherent risk of blocking bases and the plate. If managers are *that* concerned about the catchers' safety, coach them to avoid collisions by simply taking a step outside of the baseline and apply a tag. It really is just that easy. >>
That easy, you say? What about when the runner veers like a freight train into that motionless, helpless defender?
No, these collisions need to be banned, and it looks like MLB is finally going to do the responsible thing and finally outlaw these non-baseball types of plays.