80's/90's wax boxes on fire...but why?
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Posts: 3,127
So I have a pretty keen eye for the market, but for the life of me I can't figure out why this stuff is hot right now. I mean, besides Ebay and BBCE, who else could be dictating the market? Who is creating this "sense of loss" and scarcity? Just curious.
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WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>Why ask why? >>
+1
Enjoy the ride!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The illuminati. But seriously, I think discussion on this forum, especially with people who might read and not comment, and BBCE has a lot to do with the 80's price spike. >>
Close -- Bilderberg Group.
Seems that there's no way you can get lucky enough to pull 10's on the Rookie cards or lower pop cards to justify the cost of the box, case.
Didn't they make TONS UPON TONS of this stuff?
Edit to add: I don't find product 1987 (and really, 1984) or later very appealing, primarily due to the sheer amount of it that was produced during that time, as the hobby exploded during that era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Is that what they talk about at those meetings? >>
If you have to ask, you're already on the outside looking in.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
meaning, its FUN to relive your childhood. Not EVERYTHING is about dollars and cents.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>One thing that "outsiders" when it comes to this discussion seem to not think about is "enjoyment factor"
meaning, its FUN to relive your childhood. Not EVERYTHING is about dollars and cents. >>
Eric is spot on, once again! Making money is great, and I know when I get the bug and open a few vintage packs, I'm almost certainly going to come out on the short end, but opening up a 35-year-old pack is worth the experience. Such experiences are what this hobby is all about~whether you keep your pack sealed or rip them in search of high grade cards, the method of enjoyment is a personal one.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I am primarily a 70s unopened collector, but have expanded to acquiring early 80s product (1980-1983) over the past year or so, as prices for 70s boxes have risen sharply in that same time frame. I think people are looking at unopened product as a collecting category in itself. That is to say, the likelihood of "pulling 10s" from the packs is not as relevant as acquiring product from these years as it becomes increasingly more difficult to find (legitimate product, anyway). Don't forget, too, that prices for high grade key HOFers and rookie cards from these sets (for the 1970s at least that I've been following) have also risen sharply during this time (Schmidt, Brett, Ozzie rookies, just to name a few), so the payoff of pulling a Mint 9 of one of these cards does provide a more lucrative return than it did in the past, too.
Edit to add: I don't find product 1987 (and really, 1984) or later very appealing, primarily due to the sheer amount of it that was produced during that time, as the hobby exploded during that era. >>
The OP said 80's/90's. 70's stuff I can totally understand, even some EARLY 80's. The prices on the newer, remember he mentioned 90's, are skyrocketing. Yes, I can understand collecting, but at some point I would thing people wold draw the line.
Don't worry, I won't be driving the prices up. Anyone want to buy my 1990 Score factory set for some big money? LOL
There is some reward in buying along with some risk too. The key for all of us is using some restraint and not impulse buying. I am buying for the pure idea of adding it to my collection and not trying to speculate possible flips down the road. Another key is to not go way beyond your means. We all blow through and beyond our budgets at times, but for me using common sense in this market is important. Sure, I would love to have a case of 1979 cellos or wax boxes, but having one is good enough for me at this point. Even then, the pricing has to be right. I am using those with way more experience than myself to determine what is right and what is not with pricing. There are some really knowledgeable people on this forum that have given me some very sound advice.
I will never, ever tell someone else how to collect and how to buy. Nor do I know why there has been the huge spike in the market. But if we all use common sense and make sure we simply try to enjoy the hobby for what it really is meant to be -- fun and satisfaction, the market will end up in the right place.
Jmaciu's Collection
Just look at the toy market. Opened loose mint condition figurines like star wars figures or GI Joes sell for just a fraction of what the exact same figurine sells for in its original unopened still in the box shape. There is a huge premium for still being in the original packaging. Its not much different than baseball cards. The scarcity is the fact the cards are in their original unopened state. For many it brings back memories of opening those packs as a kid. There is a premium attached to that. Plus you can always simply open the cards at any time. I like to buy a box to save and a box to open.
I would agree that once you get to 1987 (and until they slowed the printing presses in probably late 1990s), especially Topps, the amount of unopened product is just way beyond the demand for the product. They just made way too much of the stuff, so the chance of demand ever outstripping supply and causing significant price increases is zero to none in my opinion. However, I still collect post 1987 unopened (and opened of course) simply for the joy of collecting and it can be obtained so cheaply so the downside is nil also. I even collect new, such as 2013 unopened product, trying to get at least one pack of every product released. While I don't expect those packs to increase in value, I simply collect for the joy of collecting. I also find it interesting that I had to pay $5.00 for an unopened pack of 2013 Chrome Bowman baseball with only 4 cards the other day at a local card store and on the same day I paid $5.00 for a 1981 Topps baseball unopened pack that the dealer had (he had about 5 packs left in a recently cracked box).
As far as recent price increases, while they seem sharp and sudden, a lot of the prices for unopened have been down for years. If you happen to have a copy of the Baseball Card Kids Guide to Unopened packs (I have the second edition which I believe came out in 2002 and the first edition in 1996--I strongly recommend getting this purely for the great pictures of most every unopened sports pack and wrapper ever produced), many of the prices are just getting back to early 2000 levels on some of the 1970s and early 1980s wax boxes in baseball, football and basketball. For example a 1975 mini wax box is listed at $2,000 in that guide, while a 1978 topps baseball wax box is listed at $750. A 1982 topps baseball wax box is listed at 225. A 1981 topps football wax pack is listed at $18 a pack.
Creating a sense of loss is one of the best ways to sell anything.
<< <i>One thing that "outsiders" when it comes to this discussion seem to not think about is "enjoyment factor"
meaning, its FUN to relive your childhood. Not EVERYTHING is about dollars and cents. >>
Eric is right.
It's a blast finding this stuff. Online, Ebay,at shows and of course the challenge of getting on the BBCE website at the just the precise time to get a order. Lots of fun imo. When its all said and done and i decide to sell I'll probably end up making money on some of the unopened (like the 1980/81 Basketball box i snagged 2 minutes after it appeared on the BBCE website) and losing or breaking even to fees and expenses ect on some of the others.
James
<< <i>I have seen what the prices are doing for the early 80's Topps stuff. Are any of the Fleer or Donruss boxes for those years going up too?
James >>
If so, not near as much increase as Topps product is seeing.
Good time to buy early Donruss/Fleer IMO.
There are many new boxes that have 18 packs per box with 5 cards in a pack retailing for $150. Why would people question the value of a 1981 Topps box at $200 for 36 packs/10 cards per?
1) Supply/demand is totally different so it's an apples to oranges comparison you are making;
2) Why has the value increased so drastically in one year for the older cards?
<< <i>There are many new boxes that have 18 packs per box with 5 cards in a pack retailing for $150. Why would people question the value of a 1981 Topps box at $200 for 36 packs/10 cards per? >>
There is *zero* chance that I will pull a card from 81T that will sell for the price of the box without the intervention of TPG. That new box of 13 Topps? There are many cards in the product that are "worth" more than the cost of a box.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>There are many new boxes that have 18 packs per box with 5 cards in a pack retailing for $150. Why would people question the value of a 1981 Topps box at $200 for 36 packs/10 cards per?
1) Supply/demand is totally different so it's an apples to oranges comparison you are making;
2) Why has the value increased so drastically in one year for the older cards? >>
I'm just curious, can you elaborate on #1? Different, as in greater supply of 81 wax vs. new stuff or vice versa?
<< <i>
<< <i>There are many new boxes that have 18 packs per box with 5 cards in a pack retailing for $150. Why would people question the value of a 1981 Topps box at $200 for 36 packs/10 cards per?
1) Supply/demand is totally different so it's an apples to oranges comparison you are making;
2) Why has the value increased so drastically in one year for the older cards? >>
I'm just curious, can you elaborate on #1? Different, as in greater supply of 81 wax vs. new stuff or vice versa? >>
Supply is unknown with the older stuff but I would guess there is slightly more newer stuff. However, I believe the demand for the newer stuff is far greater. Put a box of 1981 Topps for sale at Walmart and it will sit a while!
*Forgot to add...I love opening this stuff and probably always will. I just think some of this trend is fascinating.
<< <i>80's/90's wax boxes on fire...but why? >>
Because they're worthless, they take up space, and they burn well.
Perhaps I am confused.
This has to be one of the most intelligent things ever written on these boards!! I have plenty of 9s that look better than some of the 10s of the same card. It is all because of the perceived scarcity of a PSA 10 compared to a PSA 9.
<< <i>What I think is strange about this whole thing is that individual cards from these packs will never come close to the price of unopened packs. It doesn't make sense in my head when these are the cards contained in the unopened packs.
*Forgot to add...I love opening this stuff and probably always will. I just think some of this trend is fascinating. >>
Tim has mentioned over and over the idea that the item in its unopened form is a collectible in and of itself (and I completely agree with this), but remove that from the equation and you still have the opportunity to "win the lottery" with just about ANY 1980's and older pack you buy from ANY year and in ANY sport. I'm not saying that's why people buy older packs, but I keep reading posts that are saying, "the cost of the pack/box is more than the contents inside". That's just not true....I'm not saying it's easy, but the chance exists. Do a search on eBay, of ANY year, for a PSA 10 (and even some PSA 9's) and you will see sold prices that far exceed the cost of the box or pack. Why spend $800 on a PSA 10 Ronnie Lott RC, or $500 on an LT PSA 10 RC??? You can buy a box for $200 and possibly get one of each ....plus 400 other cards that might have a chance at 9's or 10's.
"Supply is unknown with the older stuff but I would guess there is slightly more newer stuff. However, I believe the demand for the newer stuff is far greater. Put a box of 1981 Topps for sale at Walmart and it will sit a while! "
I will start with your first comment which is very confusing. The supply is unknown with the older stuff but I would GUESS there is slightly more newer stuff. What are you saying? You don't know the production run of 1981 Topps but you would guess there is slightly more newer stuff than the older stuff you know nothing about?????
Why would you feel the demand for newer stuff is far greater? If a collector wanted to buy a George Brett rookie. It is simple you have one card that is his rookie card- 1975 Topps. If a collector wanted to buy a Albert Pujols rookie what are you to tell him? There are at least 30 rookies of Albert Pujols. I like the new stuff but honestly the card companies have made it way too complicated for a collector to understand a sense of direction for collecting. I hope for the good of the hobby that we do have interest in this newer stuff so the hobby does not die off.
Put a box of 1981 Topps for sale at Walmart and it will sit a while? Really? That is very wierd and because a CASE of it sat in a little room at BBCE and it lasted five hours. That is 20 boxes not one. Put a box of 2013 Topps XYZ at Walmart and some dirt bag will search the box for a chase card and then that box will sit there for nine months.
aconte
The amount of HOFers, already in the Hall, pre-85 is solid, even if it's late career cards for many.
Plus, if I buy a box of 2012 Topps Finest for $130, I get 2 mini boxes of 6 packs each with 5 cards per pack. That's about $2.16/card.
A box of 1981 Topps goes for $185, and yields 540 cards, equaling about .34/card.
Now if you're fishing for inserts and that's your collecting focus, I totally get why you'd go for the 2012.
But if you collect HOFers, the 1981 cards seem like a good deal to me.
NOTE: I'll plead ignorance on things like production runs, and to be honest most newer cards in general. For all I know 2012 Topps Finest might be worth every penny...it's just that my focus pulls me the other way and the cost/card seems like a fair deal to me.
"Just look at the toy market. Opened loose mint condition figurines like star wars figures or GI Joes sell for just a fraction of what the exact same figurine sells for in its original unopened still in the box shape. There is a huge premium for still being in the original packaging. Its not much different than baseball cards. The scarcity is the fact the cards are in their original unopened state."
Having said that, this isn't a revelation nor is it a sufficient explanation for the recent sharp increase in price of unopened material.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>Are those buy or sell prices?? Just wondering based on the language of the ad. >>
Buy prices. That's why we had ** BUYING ** at the top of each column, but I guess the language about sales could be confusing. By this point in 1999, it was becoming more and more difficult to find the candy distributors. We got a lot of our inventory from word of mouth.
<< <i>1980 topps wax boxes for $850? do they have that much "break up" value? ......or is a lot of the value based on being an unopened wax box? >>
This is a good question and subject to a lot of debate. I haven't graded cards in a dozen years, so I am not sure. There is definitely some value in it just being an unopened box. Again, welcome to the board!