Educational Help Please - RAW $1 Coins

TheRock

Guys and Gals I need a little help please.

Most of you that know me here from the past know that I collected Copper coins for almost 15 years until I sold my entire Copper collection to Andy at Angel Dee's about 7 years ago. I have since been highly involved in collecting currency and it has really got a tight grip on my collecting passion.

However, my kids (4 boys, 13 Year old & Triplet 11 Year olds) have never stopped collecting coins since I stopped and now we have quite a large collection of RAW and SLABBED $1 Morgan's, IKE's, SBA's and SAC's for both Proof and Mint State. I really have never liked having to buy SLABBED coins because I really believe that one should be able to grade things RAW, as that's the FUN of collecting. I fully realize that some things that are very hard to find for ones collection are most likely SLABBED and I have no problem buying those items. However, it's really not as FUN as buying RAW.

I spent an entire year with dealers just handling RAW currency to learn the skill of grading before I ever bought my first note. I did almost the same thing years ago when I put my Copper collection together. By doing this I learned how to grade and it has saved me a lot of time, effort and money and allowed me to continue the "HUNT" as we all like to call our passion for collecting.

Here's my question:
- What is the best method of getting an education on grading RAW $1 coins as I have described above?

I have tried to use what I learned from my Copper days, but $1 Silver coins seem to be quite different when one is grading these as things have changed so much since the days I was involved in coin collecting. I have already invested in a complete library of books and reference materials, but that was not enough for me. I have also done many educational breakout sessions at shows like the ANA, etc. and still that was not enough for me.

- Are there any dealers that could be recommended that will actually give you the time to help with the tricks of the trade, the "What to look for" on specific coins, etc?
- Does PCGS have an Educational breakout to show you what they look for?

I'm open to flying just about anywhere to learn this skill and fully understand it takes time and effort, but I figured I would ask you first as to what you would do if you were to start a new collection of something totaly different.

Thanks,

JD

derryb

I recommend "Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" by John Dannreuther

ModCrewman

Try the online book linked HERE, I read that early on in my collecting and found it quite helpful. I still have it bookmarked, though I never look at it anymore.

LindeDad

<< <i>I recommend "Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" by John Dannreuther >>



Great read and I think most of the counterfeiters have read it by now also. Sadly they made so many before the book came out it still is a good place to start.

MsMorrisine

Coin facts and photograde are options.

BillJones

One piece of advice you should take to heart is that you need to get to know what genuine Morgan dollars look like. The Chinese are pumping out common date, "circulated" pieces in large quantities and getting them out to the flea markets and other such venues, including the small coin shows. These things are not priced that high relative to the silver price, from what I've seen, BUT they are usually made of steal and contain NO SILVER. Wondering around in ignorance in this area can cost you a lot of money and disappointment. Deal with people you trust if you don't trust your own skills.

Just because it looks circulated and is a common date does not mean that it is genuine.

TheRock

Thanks everyone.

I own most of the material (books) that you mention and they were all a great read. I have come to trust my sight & touch & knowledge more than anything.

An example of what I'm looking for is:

$1 MS IKE (High Quality) - Let's say 65-68 Quality

- What to look for on the obverse in the field, cheeks, etc. that would in a RAW format enable it to holder into a 65-68 and the differences that PCGS looks for in the different grades such as smudges, nic's, wear, etc. What is acceptable and what is looked down upon?

That's kind of what I'm looking for on all the various types of Morgan's, IKE's, SBA's, SAC's that I have. I agree that knowledge is "POWER" and knowing what is real and what is fake is 100% key to collecting. Everyone gets burned or stumped once in a while, I just try not to let it happen multiple times.

I know spending time with people like James Sego was a huge help and that's the kind of help I would like to see continue.

DaveG

It seems to me that you already have more than enough general knowledge for you to know how to go about learning what you want to know, so I expect that you're really asking for recommendations of dealers who deal in the material that you're looking for.

I don't collect moderns myself, but there are a number of members here who are are very knowledgeable about them.

I do expect that you'll have to buy your Ikes, SBAs and Sackies out of proof and mint sets if you really want to buy high-grade example raw.

You may have better luck finding high-grade raw Morgans.

LindeDad

Almost all of the modern dollars can be bought already certified in the grade you want cheaper than you can make them your self. Even shooting for TOP POP coins is a loser now as several of the large dealers have used the bulk grading programs to flood the market.

RedTiger

>>
An example of what I'm looking for is:

$1 MS IKE (High Quality) - Let's say 65-68 Quality

- What to look for on the obverse in the field, cheeks, etc. that would in a RAW format enable it to holder into a 65-68 and the differences that PCGS looks for in the different grades such as smudges, nic's, wear, etc. What is acceptable and what is looked down upon?
>>

I am confused. The original poster asks about grading. Already has the best reference books, already has taken some of the educational seminars. And yet is asking what seem to be basic grading questions like the one above. All the following is repetition: look at the luster, strike, start there with a base grade, then start subtracting for marks. Each series has its prime focal areas, and secondary and less important areas. Hopefully the many books and seminars have already given that basic information. As to what is minor and what is major, and what is superior luster vs. average luster, a person learns that by looking at lots of coins.

It typically takes thousands of hours for the average collector to learn how to grade high end MS coins with consistency. There is also grading talent. Eye sight, concentration, memory, personality are components of talent. If a person has done a lot of work and still is lacking, I'm not sure what else to suggest. If a person has bought the books, the videos, taken the ANA grading courses, already worked with top dealers, that is the circuit. There is no magic hat, no secret code.

/edit to add: one suggestion is to assemble a certified grading set or several. If the cost is prohibitive, images are a poor man's substitute shadow set. Let me add, that if I were a dealer I would be angry, if a customer took up a year of my time at shows milking me for information, before buying even a single item. Especially, if that customer then spends all their time focusing on low cost raw items, trying to pick up plums for very little money.

BryceM

If your goal is to assemble a nice set, why limit yourself to raw coins? If you insist on collecting raw, and don't mind collecting lower-value, circulated, common-date coins, precision with grading isn't all that important. If you're looking for scarce, valuable dollars that are un-slabbed, you have a couple of significant problems.

99.9% of coins that have spent any time on the bourse floor or in a dealer's inventory have been scrutinized a few times by knowledgeable folks. Virtually all coins with potential have been submitted, some multiple times. If you do happen to come across a significant quantity of raw, fresh material, it shouldn't be too hard to pick out the nicest ones, especially if you already have a good handle on grading basics. If you're trying to pick MS67 coins from a pile of raw dollars, I can understand your frustration. Only a few coins like this were ever found when the original bags were opened up and the coins inspected by the tens of thousands. If you're frustrated because you see it as a MS65 and the graders saw it as an MS64, don't worry. There is considerable variability in opinion.

TheRock

I appreciate all the feedback everyone.

Some of the comments have help out greatly with my questions.

Thanks everyone.