I do think it's a struck-through error, Fred. I've never seen feeder finger scrapes end abruptly in a squared-off fashion. I've also never seen feeder finger scrapes occupy an elongated, rectangular recess.
But like you, I continue to question the wood identification.
Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
I'm not sure that it was struck through wood or not, but it is still a very interesting error. I wouldn't pay as much attention to the strike through behind the head as that is common on many modern issues, especially presidential dollars. The strike through behind the head and the large strike through are unrelated IMO as the strike through behind the head can be seen on many, many consecutive coins, while a large strike through seems to leave the striking chamber relatively quickly. Each signifies a different material and their respective nature.
<< <i>I do think it's a struck-through error, Fred. I've never seen feeder finger scrapes end abruptly in a squared-off fashion. I've also never seen feeder finger scrapes occupy an elongated, rectangular recess.
But like you, I continue to question the wood identification. >>
<< <i>In my opinion, it's not struck thru wood.
The Die face has been scraped by the Feeder Fingers.
I've seen this effect (repeated in the same area) in numerous Presidential Dollars from 2007 on.
I agree that it's a nice rectangular shape, but the 'grain' is the same as the other Dollars I've run across - usually with other mechanical errors on them. I've seen over 100 similar marks.
There used to be wood in the Mints back in the day (not sure when wood disapeared) but there isn't any wood anywhere near the presses today - aside from locked, hard-wood boxes that the Error coins are put in!)
This is a Die Defect, imo, and not a struck thru wood error......just my opinion from observation. >>
Ok and WOW
LOL, So I first had to partially disagree with expert one and now have to completely disagree with expert number two and partial re-agree with expert number one.
I thank you both for your input and expert opinions.
Fred, this is definitely a struck thru error, no doubt in my mind. Wouldn't a die defect be raised????
Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood.
As Tom suggested, while I do not think this is a toothpick, perhaps a mint operator uses small pieces of hardwood to clean debris from the dies.
Look at the second photo in the thread and you can see the arcing of woodgrain and waviness as if a knot was near the splintered wood.
I KNOW this is a struck thru and I was always taught to use logic in error collection and diagnosing ....
So what do we have that makes sense ?????
We have a struck thru that looks like the shape of wood and shows a woodgrain pattern.
Do we have any woodworkers on this forum that want to chime in????
Maybe Daniel Carr can chime in on what he thinks is going on since he has played around with dies and coin presses a bit...Ok, maybe not playing. Maybe he can toss a toothpick in once and see what happens.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags.
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags. >>
I have no idea as I have never been there. Do they get anything else like grease, rags, and any paper (office) products, delivered on the production floor via wood pallets?
On page 223 of Your book, you have a photo of rolled strips sitting on wood.
So there is wood around and is possible but extremely rare in modern coinage, thus more important to get this right if it is indeed struck thru wood.
I also have to ask the question as to where the mint got the blanks from and wonder if the wood scrap just came with the planchets from where they were produced.
It is a very small piece of wood so it could have come from anywhere really.
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags. >>
I have no idea as I have never been there. Do they get anything else like grease, rags, and any paper (office) products, delivered on the production floor via wood pallets?
On page 223 of Your book, you have a photo of rolled strips sitting on wood.
So there is wood around and is possible but extremely rare in modern coinage, thus more important to get this right if it is indeed struck thru wood.
I also have to ask the question as to where the mint got the blanks from and wonder if the wood scrap just came with the planchets from where they were produced.
It is a very small piece of wood so it could have come from anywhere really. >>
When I had my floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009, they were blanking dollars from strip. Cent planchets were coming in premade in bins.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>When I had my floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009, they were blanking dollars from strip. Cent planchets were coming in premade in bins. >>
Thank you very much for that information.
And as we see from Fred's Book, rolled strips come on wood pallets
JRocco ... what IS that coin? (date and mint mark)
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I have been following this thread and have a lot of respect for the expert opinions, exactly one of the reason I come here, to see and learn. I've thought about this and determining exactly what caused this anomaly will probably never be identified.
I think it might be a piece of broken off nylon from a common brush bristle. The impression even shows the remnant (spur) from the breaking point. Course as the dies press together, the remnant of what ever it was, will flatten and distort.
Very interesting indeed. Personally I believe it is some type of wood from a pallet. I work in a grocery store and lift/stack about 10 wooden pallets after we get a delivery of product everyday. It is not uncommon for some pallets to be a little beat up and to have my shirt covered with little fine pieces of wood since I use my upper torso as support to lift them when stacking them on top of each other. This small size of a piece could have simply been stuck to his or hers shirt, gone unnoticed and fell off at the right time while working.
<< <i>I have been following this thread and have a lot of respect for the expert opinions, exactly one of the reason I come here, to see and learn. I've thought about this and determining exactly what caused this anomaly will probably never be identified.
I think it might be a piece of broken off nylon from a common brush bristle. The impression even shows the remnant (spur) from the breaking point. Course as the dies press together, the remnant of what ever it was, will flatten and distort. >>
Ooooohh..I hadn't read every post until now and I must say I kinda like your theory too.
Comments
But like you, I continue to question the wood identification.
<< <i>I do think it's a struck-through error, Fred. I've never seen feeder finger scrapes end abruptly in a squared-off fashion. I've also never seen feeder finger scrapes occupy an elongated, rectangular recess.
But like you, I continue to question the wood identification. >>
<< <i>In my opinion, it's not struck thru wood.
The Die face has been scraped by the
Feeder Fingers.
I've seen this effect (repeated in the same
area) in numerous Presidential Dollars
from 2007 on.
I agree that it's a nice rectangular shape,
but the 'grain' is the same as the other
Dollars I've run across - usually with other
mechanical errors on them. I've seen
over 100 similar marks.
There used to be wood in the Mints back
in the day (not sure when wood disapeared)
but there isn't any wood anywhere near the
presses today - aside from locked, hard-wood
boxes that the Error coins are put in!)
This is a Die Defect, imo, and not a struck thru
wood error......just my opinion from observation. >>
Ok and WOW
LOL, So I first had to partially disagree with expert one and now have to completely disagree with expert number two and partial re-agree with expert number one.
I thank you both for your input and expert opinions.
Fred, this is definitely a struck thru error, no doubt in my mind. Wouldn't a die defect be raised????
Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood.
As Tom suggested, while I do not think this is a toothpick, perhaps a mint operator uses small pieces of hardwood to clean debris from the dies.
Look at the second photo in the thread and you can see the arcing of woodgrain and waviness as if a knot was near the splintered wood.
I KNOW this is a struck thru and I was always taught to use logic in error collection and diagnosing ....
So what do we have that makes sense ?????
We have a struck thru that looks like the shape of wood and shows a woodgrain pattern.
Do we have any woodworkers on this forum that want to chime in????
Does it really look like a textile?
A piece of metal?
What is logical?
Why couldn't this diagnosed for sure?
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags. >>
I have no idea as I have never been there. Do they get anything else like grease, rags, and any paper (office) products, delivered on the production floor via wood pallets?
On page 223 of Your book, you have a photo of rolled strips sitting on wood.
So there is wood around and is possible but extremely rare in modern coinage, thus more important to get this right if it is indeed struck thru wood.
I also have to ask the question as to where the mint got the blanks from and wonder if the wood scrap just came with the planchets from where they were produced.
It is a very small piece of wood so it could have come from anywhere really.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, while I have never been to the mint, I would think that they use hardwood pallets for their heavy product. One small nick by a forklift and you have a small piece of wood. >>
I think they now use metal (steel?) stands that hold the massive blue and white mint bags. >>
I have no idea as I have never been there. Do they get anything else like grease, rags, and any paper (office) products, delivered on the production floor via wood pallets?
On page 223 of Your book, you have a photo of rolled strips sitting on wood.
So there is wood around and is possible but extremely rare in modern coinage, thus more important to get this right if it is indeed struck thru wood.
I also have to ask the question as to where the mint got the blanks from and wonder if the wood scrap just came with the planchets from where they were produced.
It is a very small piece of wood so it could have come from anywhere really. >>
When I had my floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009, they were blanking dollars from strip. Cent planchets were coming in premade in bins.
<< <i>When I had my floor tour of the Philadelphia Mint in 2009, they were blanking dollars from strip. Cent planchets were coming in premade in bins. >>
Thank you very much for that information.
And as we see from Fred's Book, rolled strips come on wood pallets
Here is a good example of damage from the feeder fingers on a Lincoln
<< <i>JRocco ... what IS that coin? (date and mint mark) >>
Hey TD
It is a 2002 P
Sorry, I can't find an obverse pic, but the obverse showed no damage at all.
I think it might be a piece of broken off nylon from a common brush bristle. The impression even shows the remnant (spur) from the breaking point. Course as the dies press together, the remnant of what ever it was, will flatten and distort.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I have been following this thread and have a lot of respect for the expert opinions, exactly one of the reason I come here, to see and learn. I've thought about this and determining exactly what caused this anomaly will probably never be identified.
I think it might be a piece of broken off nylon from a common brush bristle. The impression even shows the remnant (spur) from the breaking point. Course as the dies press together, the remnant of what ever it was, will flatten and distort. >>
Ooooohh..I hadn't read every post until now and I must say I kinda like your theory too.