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Post An Example With "Pull-Away" Type Patina
Broadstruck
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1868 Ulysses S. Grant Presidential Campaign, 32mm Diameter Copper, Dewitt USG-1868-12
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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8 Reales Madness Collection
Lots of toned Morgan Dollars display this and looks very neat. Have no idea how it happens though.
Very nice Medal BS.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Nice medal. How do you define "pull-away" type patina? >>
TwoKopeiki, Exactly as guitarwes described it
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>Look between the letters and rim around the reverse of this medal. See how the patina or toning looks like it's "pulling away" from the letters.
Lots of toned Morgan Dollars display this and looks very neat. Have no idea how it happens though. >>
Here's a Morgan Dollar that displays this phenomenon. Look just below the date and at the stars at 4-5 o'clock. I think that this characteristic is often present with bag toning, where the relief of certain parts of the design "shield" the adjoining field from direct contact with the canvas bag. The photo is courtesy of BluCC.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>Im guessing it has to be something to do with metal flow when the coin was struck. What else could account for this phenomenon? >>
This phenomenon is not present on all UNC toned coins. And some types of coins never seem to have it (such as Peace dollars). It is all about how the planchets are prepared (annealing temperature, trace elements, chemical environment).
From my experience in minting, I believe that this effect occurs when the planchet has already oxidized slightly before being struck, and then the toning progresses more after the strike.
It is hard for me to capture the true view of some coins in a photograph, but I'll try with this one. This 1853-D gold dollar is graded AU-58. If I could find a lot of the other better gold dollars with this look in AU-58 holders, I'd have my collection finished in a year a so. The rate I'm going (one or two coins a year, and it will probably slow down in the future.) I'll be lucky to finish in the next decade. And, yes, I paid a premium price for this coin.
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Complete US-PHIL Coins for Sale, Circulation Strikes 1903-1945
Hoard the keys
The best theory I remember was that these areas adjacent to the letters and designs are work hardened during the striking process and are almost impervious to tone like the other surfaces.
Either you buy it or you don't...but sounds plausible.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Jim
<< <i>This phenomenon has been discussed here before, especially when it came to identifying a AT'ed coins. There were those that claimed that 'pull away' toning is next to impossible to reproduce by accelerated methods, so if it is evident, the toning is natural. >>
It might be one identifier, but what about the rest of the coin? I'm sure other parts of the coin can be enhanced and fool those that think just because it has "pull away toning" it's a slam dunk NT. And I have no doubt there are a ton of folks that believe 100% by this method. Of course it has to be so....... because it's been posted on these forums.
<< <i>
<< <i>This phenomenon has been discussed here before, especially when it came to identifying a AT'ed coins. There were those that claimed that 'pull away' toning is next to impossible to reproduce by accelerated methods, so if it is evident, the toning is natural. >>
It might be one identifier, but what about the rest of the coin? I'm sure other parts of the coin can be enhanced and fool those that think just because it has "pull away toning" it's a slam dunk NT. And I have no doubt there are a ton of folks that believe 100% by this method. Of course it has to be so....... because it's been posted on these forums.
Believe me, I debated posting this because it's been discussed to the point of ad-nausea. Great examples shown so far...keep it up. Some are more dramatic than others, but most all fall into the same realm.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>This phenomenon has been discussed here before, especially when it came to identifying a AT'ed coins. There were those that claimed that 'pull away' toning is next to impossible to reproduce by accelerated methods, so if it is evident, the toning is natural.
The best theory I remember was that these areas adjacent to the letters and designs are work hardened during the striking process and are almost impervious to tone like the other surfaces.
Either you buy it or you don't...but sounds plausible. >>
Not impossible to create
When I heard phrase "pull away toning" thought of this beauty immediately.
My avatar has it on both the obverse and reverse
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>Would this be it? >>
Yep.......very pretty
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Coin Rarities Online
Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
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Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>one more
Wow, this is everything you would want to see in a coin. I do not collect these, nor do I amke a market in them, but if you ever fell like selling it , I would love to have it.
<< <i>Your avatar is awesome un-avatared Broadstruck
Thanks shylock!
Here's another which has it present on both sides but is more easily seen on the obverse.
Agreed, and something about the metal flow on the outer rim of the coin.
All the examples in this interesting thread show it on the outer lettering or devices and never in the center design.
Eric
<< <i>
U.S. Type Set
Hoard the keys
<< <i><< This phenomenon has been discussed here before, especially when it came to identifying a AT'ed coins. There were those that claimed that 'pull away' toning is next to impossible to reproduce by accelerated methods, so if it is evident, the toning is natural.
The best theory I remember was that these areas adjacent to the letters and designs are work hardened during the striking process and are almost impervious to tone like the other surfaces.
Either you buy it or you don't...but sounds plausible. >> >>
<< <i>Im guessing it has to be something to do with metal flow when the coin was struck. What else could account for this phenomenon?
Agreed, and something about the metal flow on the outer rim of the coin.
All the examples in this interesting thread show it on the outer lettering or devices and never in the center design. >>
One might think this metal hardness/flow notion would work to enable the technique to be duplicated if colors are achieved in a similar way?
Eric
AB
"Mystic Shadow"
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
Here's some pull away toning on a fun 1820 half from the Solomon collection. And with offset hub doubling on the reverse.
Lance.
Color balance.....
<< <i>I know Lance.
Color balance.....
Hey, that may be right. I can't tell.
What a great variety the 1817/3 is. The coolest overdate in the series. I've been looking for a nice one for years. Anyone? Anyone?
Lance.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC