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A. Soriano- hall of famer?

raykasaraykasa Posts: 186 ✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
just got laughed out of the bar last night when i mentioned he's close to 400 hrs and 300 stolen bases. any chance? i did have some scotch and sodas....
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Comments

  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    imageimageimageimageimage

    Edited to add: No!
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No.
    Daniel
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Him and Billy Wagner are locks. Book it.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭✭
    I dumped him from my fantasy baseball team on Tuesday morning, then he proceeds to go 6 for 9 with 6 Runs 4 HRs and 13 RBIs in two games... screw that guy. lol
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I dumped him from my fantasy baseball team on Tuesday morning, then he proceeds to go 6 for 9 with 6 Runs 4 HRs and 13 RBIs in two games... screw that guy. lol >>



    Sounds like he already screwed you Jeff, LOL.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • MrSnuffleupagusMrSnuffleupagus Posts: 689


    << <i>Him and Billy Wagner are locks. Book it. >>



    Billy Wagner all-time relief pitcher rankings (500+ innings)

    LOB% - 1ST (probably THE most important stat for a reliever)
    AVG - 1ST
    K/9 - 1ST (also all-time for ALL pitchers)
    K% - 1ST
    ERA - 2ND
    ERA- - 2ND
    WHIP - 3RD
    FIP- - 3RD
    WAR - 4TH
    FIP - 4TH
    Saves - 5TH
    Ks - 6TH
    K/BB - 6TH
  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I dumped him from my fantasy baseball team on Tuesday morning, then he proceeds to go 6 for 9 with 6 Runs 4 HRs and 13 RBIs in two games... screw that guy. lol >>



    Sounds like he already screwed you Jeff, LOL. >>



    At least he was still in my lineup for Tuesday's game (the drop doesn't process until the next day), but last night was just way out of line. Should have known... he's a Yankee. image
  • raykasaraykasa Posts: 186 ✭✭
    if he gets the Stolen bases (somewhat possible) he enters the 400/300 club. the Home runs are soon to be; the only other members of that club are Bonds, Mays, and the Hawk Dawson. Hey...I'm just saying. Bonds i know about...but the other two are in the Coop.
  • NVbaseballNVbaseball Posts: 572


    << <i>if he gets the Stolen bases (somewhat possible) he enters the 400/300 club. the Home runs are soon to be; the only other members of that club are Bonds, Mays, and the Hawk Dawson. Hey...I'm just saying. Bonds i know about...but the other two are in the Coop. >>



    The 200 home runs / 500 stolen bases club is limited to Bonds, Henderson, Molitor and Morgan. Cesar Cedeno finished his career with 199 home runs and Bobby Bonds had 461 stolen bases. Do you really think making that club would have meant either of them make the Hall-of-Fame?

    No matter how many home runs or stolen bases he ends up with, the only chance Soriano would have if he was as good as Dawson. But he is not close -- and most people see Dawson as one of the lowest end choices the Writers have made
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭
    DEFINITELY ... if election into the HOF is based solely on August 13, 2013 and August 14, 2013. Otherwise NO!
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • GrandMasterBGrandMasterB Posts: 233 ✭✭
    I would say no. Even though 400/300 would be impressive, he only finished as high as 3rd in MVP voting. Plus he has only a career .213 BA in the post season. He does deserve A LOT of credit for being forced to the outfield and turning himself into an above average fielder.
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>i did have some scotch and sodas.... >>



    Well there's your problem. Next time drink scotch on the rocks with maybe a splash of water (depending on the label).
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>i did have some scotch and sodas.... >>



    Well there's your problem. Next time drink scotch on the rocks with maybe a splash of water (depending on the label). >>



    Scotch and sodas is a fine summertime drink w/the cheap stuff and a lemon twist. By winter, it's only the good stuff and anything more than 2 cubes of ice is sacrilege.
    Who is the Golf Card Guy?
  • doog71doog71 Posts: 405 ✭✭
    The guy is still in good shape. Could he average 25HR a year for four more years and hit 500 HR? Maybe.

    Not as ridiculous a thought as most may think right now.
  • daprodapro Posts: 209 ✭✭
    saw the title then LOL
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The guy is still in good shape. Could he average 25HR a year for four more years and hit 500 HR? Maybe.

    Not as ridiculous a thought as most may think right now. >>



    I agree it could be close. I can't remember but didn't he win a WS with the Yanks.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • raykasaraykasa Posts: 186 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>i did have some scotch and sodas.... >>



    Well there's your problem. Next time drink scotch on the rocks with maybe a splash of water (depending on the label). >>



    Scotch and sodas is a fine summertime drink w/the cheap stuff and a lemon twist. By winter, it's only the good stuff and anything more than 2 cubes of ice is sacrilege. >>



    Balvenie is my scotch of choice. but just a wee dram....
  • 3BoyzTrading3BoyzTrading Posts: 798 ✭✭
    He still needs the numbers. We can revisit this in 4 years. He'll either still be playing in a limited role or retired.
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    No. Just a stat accumulator. Not an all-time great.
    Steve
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>i did have some scotch and sodas.... >>



    Well there's your problem. Next time drink scotch on the rocks with maybe a splash of water (depending on the label). >>



    Scotch and sodas is a fine summertime drink w/the cheap stuff and a lemon twist. By winter, it's only the good stuff and anything more than 2 cubes of ice is sacrilege. >>



    Balvenie is my scotch of choice. but just a wee dram.... >>



    I'm a Johnny Walker fan and will gladly take long pours, especially of Blue.

    Good stuff.
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    I don't think he's close to being a Hall of Famer. His only chance would be 500+ HRs and 400+ SBs with around 2,500 hits, but he won't reach any of those milestones, IMO. I think he was talking about retiring soon last season or maybe even earlier this season?
    tradingcardcommunity on reddit - CLICK HERE, JOIN AND POST!]
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    For poops and chuckles, here's a list of all players with 250+ HRs and 250+ SBs, by OPS (star=PED tie, -=active, H=HOFer);

    *Barry Bonds 1.051
    -*Alex Rodriguez .944
    H Willie Mays .941
    *Gary Sheffield .907
    Bobby Abreu .873
    -Carlos Beltran .856
    Eric Davis .841
    Reggie Sanders .830
    -Derek Jeter .829
    -Alfonso Soriano .824
    Bobby Bonds .824
    H Rickey Henderson .820
    H Joe Morgan .819
    Kirk Gibson .815
    H Andre Dawson .806
    Craig Biggio .796
    H Ryne Sandberg .795
    *Mike Cameron .782
    Don Baylor .777
    Steve Finley .775
    H Robin Yount .772
    Vada Pinson .769

    Kirk Gibson really surprised me. I never knew he had 250+ stolen bases, as I always picture him as a broken-down Dodger with one leg.
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  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭
    Let's start talking about Adam Dunn...
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
    Better chance than Wagner, but still a solid nope.

    Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Better chance than Wagner, but still a solid nope. >>



    I agree with this.
  • PSASAPPSASAP Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭
    Wagner's great, but I prefer Vivaldi.
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Who do I need to give money to for these threads to stop?
  • cpamikecpamike Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Who do I need to give money to for these threads to stop? >>



    I don't think it will help. I guess things are slow in Sports Talk. Getting ready for the Mario Mendoza arguments.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

    Collecting:
    Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Who do I need to give money to for these threads to stop? >>



    Welcome to every single sportscard forum on the internet...
    tradingcardcommunity on reddit - CLICK HERE, JOIN AND POST!]
  • PSASAPPSASAP Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭
    link to The War Song
  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He'll need to accumulate 500 HR's(doubt it), 2500 hits(doubt it), keep the average above .270(tough call), and 300 steals(likely).
    Overall, a Nope.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    His OPS+ is 113. According to WAR, he is the 61s best LF all time.
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭
    Soriano has less Blown Saves than Wagner.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Wagner easily exceeds the average HOFer in the HOF monitor. Soriano is close but not there. FWIW.
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    they both will get in eventually
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
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  • doog71doog71 Posts: 405 ✭✭


    << <i>Who do I need to give money to for these threads to stop? >>



    I don't know, baseball players with borderline HOF stats maybe?
  • mattinglymint23mattinglymint23 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭
    I just had a double grey goose at the station bar AND soriano went 4-5 with an RBI
    If we all get tanked this weekend he could easily reach 500 HR
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Wagner easily exceeds the average HOFer in the HOF monitor. Soriano is close but not there. FWIW. >>




    That's about as useful as saying that a player hit .420 over the month of July. The "HOF monitor" makes no distinction between starter or relievers on the "points" that it awards. Bottom line, a reliever should have a much higher threshold relative to his peers, than a starting pitcher, because by definition, they don't add as much value to the team at the same level of performance. Recording a 2.50 ERA over 70 innings is NOT as valuable as doing that over 200 innings. In fact, I doubt you'll find a GM who thinks it's as valuable as a starter who throws 3.00 ERA over 200 innings.






    You are incorrect in one thing you said. The system does make a distinction between starters and relievers in that many of the "goals" are unattainable for relievers. See http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#hof_monitor

    Bill James developed the system as a way of predicting who will get in. I suggest you read "The Politics of Glory." The system is far from foolproof, but it is better than you give it credit for. I agree with your statement comparing relievers and starters, but it is irrelevant as to whether or not Wagner gets into the HOF.

    I am surprised that Wagner scored as high as he did. He did have a lot of seasons with a sub-2.00 ERA.
  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If Bill James were a big Soriano fan I'd say give him time and eventually a new statistical system that will have Soriano as a lock will be created. James has done it before image
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Who do I need to give money to for these threads to stop?


    I don't know, baseball players with borderline HOF stats maybe?


    I just sent Chase Utley a check for $500. Now we wait....
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭


    << <i>I just sent Chase Utley a check for $500. Now we wait.... >>


    AND HE'S PISSED THE CATHER TRIED TO TAKE THE CHECK
    image
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • mattinglymint23mattinglymint23 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭
    Soriano has 2 HR tonight. Batting 281 with 10 homers for August. Tonight was 399 and 400. HOF maybe maybe not. But don't think the yanks will debate resigning and Soriano finishing out in NY and nailing #12 to the board out in monument park.
  • doog71doog71 Posts: 405 ✭✭


    << <i>Soriano has 2 HR tonight. Batting 281 with 10 homers for August. Tonight was 399 and 400. HOF maybe maybe not. But don't think the yanks will debate resigning and sorta no finishing out in NY and nailing #12 to the board out in monument park. >>



    Many folks on this thread have determined Soriano in the Hall is a preposterous idea, so that really hurts his chances, PED-free 500 HR or not...

    Out of curiosity I went and checked out Ebay history on his rookies - I was surprised how much action there is on them and how expensive they are. His 1999 signed Topps Traded issue regularly is over $100...
  • PiggsPiggs Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭
    He should get in for his fielding alone.
  • IronmanfanIronmanfan Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭✭
    I think Francisco Ceravelli (or Chad Curtis the molester) may be the first Yankees players ever not considered for HOF enshrinement

    IMF
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  • bobbybakerivbobbybakeriv Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭
    Nochance. Mattingly and Munson have a better shot and they are not getting in...
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    Highly unlikely unless he has some incredible years left in him (which again is highly unlikely).
    Steve
  • JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nochance. Mattingly and Munson have a better shot and they are not getting in... >>



    Agree. Not getting in. How do his numbers match up against Dale Murphy, who is not in?
  • jrbolesjrboles Posts: 566 ✭✭
    Bernie Williams and Kenny Lofton got cut from HOF consideration the first year of eligibility. If that voting trend stays, Fonz doesn't have much of a shot - although I bet he lasts at least one ballot. But if he gets to 500 and wins a world series his odds improve.

    I spent every summer as a kid in Spain and when I go back every couple years my childhood buddies now drink scotch and coke from midnight until 7am during the fiestas - Passport, 100 Pipers, and Balantines. That stuff is zumo del diablo. There's a couple Venezuelan transplant baseball fans who come back and I remember one night/morning at the bar being convinced that Tony Armas was HOF-worthy so I know from whence the OP is coming.

    Bernie Williams, Kenny Lofton, Tony Armas, and Alfonso Soriano appear on sports cards and memorabilia.

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,259 ✭✭✭✭
    I would say he has a realistic shot at 500. He's physically in good shape. The ball flies in New York.
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