OT: Grrrrrr...Ebay Seller Protection is a bad JOKE!!!
70ToppsFanatic
Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭✭
Just got off the phone with Ebay on a item not received case that they ruled in favor of the buyer and rejected the appeal.
My wife sold an iPhone 4s on Ebay on May 30th to a bidder in Russia (she had sold a few of these before to bidders in that part
of the world with no issues). She used Ebay to purchase and print the shipping labels (from USPS). The package went out on
May 31st.
July 10th she gets a message from the bidder that he filed a case because the item has not arrived. She shares the tracking info again,
immediately (it was automatically captured in the record when Ebay facilitated the shipping purchase, but what the hell). She checked it
too at USPS.gov and the item shows as "In Transit" with the last date of May 31st. The bidder agrees to wait but finally on August 7th he
contacts Ebay and says that he still hasn't received the item. Ebay rules in his favor and closes the case. My wife appeals and they reject it
because she doesn't have "Proof of Delivery".
My issues with Ebay:
1) My wife's purchase of shipping service was facilitated by Ebay. They have the tracking number she received. That tracking number shows
in the shipper's (USPS) online tracking system with status "IN TRANSIT" so they KNOW that a package was actually shipped.
2) They claim to have NOTHING to do with the shipping at all (it's the seller's decision they say), and yet they are the ones who facilitate the
sale of the shipping through their portal (including negotiating a discount with the shipping service provider, automatically capturing tracking
details from the selected shipping service provider, etc.)
3) They provide ZERO information when you go about selecting shipping services as to what minimum services they advise (depending on
shipper selected and destination of item) in order to maintain eligibility for the Seller Protection they supposedly offer.
4) Not only do they refund the buyer the full amount of the purchase, but they actually have the gall to KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES despite
the fact that the purchaser received a refund!!!!
This seller protection is a scam. It's misrepresentation and false advertising! Perhaps if they made sellers aware of the minimum services
levels (by shipping provider) that allowed the seller to maintain eligibility for their advertised "protection" they could at least claim that they
have made a reasonable attempt to protect sellers but they reject that outright. AND THEN THEY KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES DESPITE
REFUNDING THE BIDDERS FULL PAYMENT AMOUNT????? That's just plain wrong. In fact, it seems like a form of stealing/racketeering. They
claim that they provided their service, so why should they be penalized?
I would SOOOOO like to rip Meg Whitman a new a&&h&le right now!!!!
How can they get away with this? Not only does my wife lose the item, but she's out nearly $50 in FV fees charged for a transaction that was
not completed, and for which Ebay has not basis to say that they had ZERO involvement in arranging the shipping.
Short of filing a RICO action against and a false advertising action EBay, anyone have any ideas on how to proceed on this?
My wife sold an iPhone 4s on Ebay on May 30th to a bidder in Russia (she had sold a few of these before to bidders in that part
of the world with no issues). She used Ebay to purchase and print the shipping labels (from USPS). The package went out on
May 31st.
July 10th she gets a message from the bidder that he filed a case because the item has not arrived. She shares the tracking info again,
immediately (it was automatically captured in the record when Ebay facilitated the shipping purchase, but what the hell). She checked it
too at USPS.gov and the item shows as "In Transit" with the last date of May 31st. The bidder agrees to wait but finally on August 7th he
contacts Ebay and says that he still hasn't received the item. Ebay rules in his favor and closes the case. My wife appeals and they reject it
because she doesn't have "Proof of Delivery".
My issues with Ebay:
1) My wife's purchase of shipping service was facilitated by Ebay. They have the tracking number she received. That tracking number shows
in the shipper's (USPS) online tracking system with status "IN TRANSIT" so they KNOW that a package was actually shipped.
2) They claim to have NOTHING to do with the shipping at all (it's the seller's decision they say), and yet they are the ones who facilitate the
sale of the shipping through their portal (including negotiating a discount with the shipping service provider, automatically capturing tracking
details from the selected shipping service provider, etc.)
3) They provide ZERO information when you go about selecting shipping services as to what minimum services they advise (depending on
shipper selected and destination of item) in order to maintain eligibility for the Seller Protection they supposedly offer.
4) Not only do they refund the buyer the full amount of the purchase, but they actually have the gall to KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES despite
the fact that the purchaser received a refund!!!!
This seller protection is a scam. It's misrepresentation and false advertising! Perhaps if they made sellers aware of the minimum services
levels (by shipping provider) that allowed the seller to maintain eligibility for their advertised "protection" they could at least claim that they
have made a reasonable attempt to protect sellers but they reject that outright. AND THEN THEY KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES DESPITE
REFUNDING THE BIDDERS FULL PAYMENT AMOUNT????? That's just plain wrong. In fact, it seems like a form of stealing/racketeering. They
claim that they provided their service, so why should they be penalized?
I would SOOOOO like to rip Meg Whitman a new a&&h&le right now!!!!
How can they get away with this? Not only does my wife lose the item, but she's out nearly $50 in FV fees charged for a transaction that was
not completed, and for which Ebay has not basis to say that they had ZERO involvement in arranging the shipping.
Short of filing a RICO action against and a false advertising action EBay, anyone have any ideas on how to proceed on this?
Dave
0
Comments
So sorry this happened. That kind of junk really irks me!
Shane
Edit: If the tracking ever updates to "delivered" you will get your money.
<< <i>What is the minimum shipping service that Ebay is saying should have been used?
So sorry this happened. That kind of junk really irks me! >>
Officially, Ebay won't say what the "minimum" service that should have been used is. THAT'S one of the issues. Their seller "protection" policy
says that you have to provide evidence of "delivery". Most of us would think that if you have a tracking number from USPS, that would give you
what you need. However, the people I spoke with told me that since this was an overseas shipment a tracking number by itself might not be
sufficient (since USPS tracking apparently stops at the US border with their 1st Class International Package service).
If Ebay people know this, then why cant they put it in text when you are ordering your shipping services through them so that their customers
(i.e. sellers) are aware that they may not have the protection we think we have??? I know...dumb question. They don't tell us because that way
when a package gets lost (like this one apparently did) they still get to keep the FV Fees!
My wife sold this iPhone for $455 + $15 shipping ($470 total). She paid about $18.50 for the shipping through Ebay and then Ebay took about $45
in FV fees. As it stands now, Ebay deducted $470 from my wife's PP account and sent it back to the buyer so my wife is "out" about $63 and she no
longer has her iPhone. The buyer is "whole" and Ebay has profited $45 from a transaction that was not consumated!
Dave
Sorry this happened to you and your wife.
Joe
Going forward, I would not ship internationally unless you are willing to risk losing your money. It is just too risky and tracking and insurance (if it's even available) is too unreliable and costly anyway. Shipping anything to Russia is just asking for trouble, imo.
I use ebay shipping also as it's very convenient and my understanding is that their insurance service called "ship cover" is pretty easy to deal with in the rare event you have a package get lost within the U.S. I'm assuming though by your post that you did not insure the package, correct?
What I definitely do not understand is how ebay can not refund your FVF if your paypal account was debited for the amount of the purchase. To me, that is the same as issuing a refund, in which case ebay will refund the final value fees, so I'm not quite sure how/why they won't refund you for that part (and the paypal fees, as well).
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
You can also block international bidding on your auctions if you do not want to deal with this type of issue.
<< <i>If Ebay people know this, then why cant they put it in text when you are ordering your shipping services through them so that their customers (i.e. sellers) are aware that they may not have the protection we think we have??? I know...dumb question. >>
I don't ship outside the US but ebay does tell you that you need signature confirmation with $250+ orders when purchasing postage.
I know what it feels like! I just sold an Incredible Hulk #1 graded comic book on ebay for $2,550! The buyer was not in Russia but Arizona. Same exact thing though. It made it all the way to Phoenix Ariz from Virginia but dies there. It just says "in transit" with no updates for going on 3 weeks now. The buyer was a good guy. It wasnt his fault or mine. But he bought it as a case to ebay. I refunded him the amount in full. I believe I did get my ebay fees back. I refunded before an ebay court decision happened. Now I'm out $2,550 and with a lost package. I filed a domestic lost package claim with proof of cost and tracking number. However, they say it can take another month before USPS responds or investigates it. I can only hope they will reimburse me for the loss or find the package and mail it back to me. However my hopes are slim. I know what you are feeling...you live by the ebay, you die by the ebay. I hope doing the right thing eventually pays off in the end.
-------
Collecting 1933 Goudeys, Bryce Harpers, Cy Youngs and MVPs, All-star game programs and tickets
For many reasons like this Many sellrs have stopped international sales.
Don't blame buyer....he waited enough time.
He has only so much time to be able to open a case...after that he loses all protection.
Maybe lost or stolen in shipping
Ebay is far from perfect...but before buyer protection it was much worse.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Just got off the phone with Ebay on a item not received case that they ruled in favor of the buyer and rejected the appeal.
My wife sold an iPhone 4s on Ebay on May 30th to a bidder in Russia (she had sold a few of these before to bidders in that part
of the world with no issues). She used Ebay to purchase and print the shipping labels (from USPS). The package went out on
May 31st.
July 10th she gets a message from the bidder that he filed a case because the item has not arrived. She shares the tracking info again,
immediately (it was automatically captured in the record when Ebay facilitated the shipping purchase, but what the hell). She checked it
too at USPS.gov and the item shows as "In Transit" with the last date of May 31st. The bidder agrees to wait but finally on August 7th he
contacts Ebay and says that he still hasn't received the item. Ebay rules in his favor and closes the case. My wife appeals and they reject it
because she doesn't have "Proof of Delivery".
My issues with Ebay:
1) My wife's purchase of shipping service was facilitated by Ebay. They have the tracking number she received. That tracking number shows
in the shipper's (USPS) online tracking system with status "IN TRANSIT" so they KNOW that a package was actually shipped.
2) They claim to have NOTHING to do with the shipping at all (it's the seller's decision they say), and yet they are the ones who facilitate the
sale of the shipping through their portal (including negotiating a discount with the shipping service provider, automatically capturing tracking
details from the selected shipping service provider, etc.)
3) They provide ZERO information when you go about selecting shipping services as to what minimum services they advise (depending on
shipper selected and destination of item) in order to maintain eligibility for the Seller Protection they supposedly offer.
4) Not only do they refund the buyer the full amount of the purchase, but they actually have the gall to KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES despite
the fact that the purchaser received a refund!!!!
This seller protection is a scam. It's misrepresentation and false advertising! Perhaps if they made sellers aware of the minimum services
levels (by shipping provider) that allowed the seller to maintain eligibility for their advertised "protection" they could at least claim that they
have made a reasonable attempt to protect sellers but they reject that outright. AND THEN THEY KEEP THE FINAL VALUE FEES DESPITE
REFUNDING THE BIDDERS FULL PAYMENT AMOUNT????? That's just plain wrong. In fact, it seems like a form of stealing/racketeering. They
claim that they provided their service, so why should they be penalized?
I would SOOOOO like to rip Meg Whitman a new a&&h&le right now!!!!
How can they get away with this? Not only does my wife lose the item, but she's out nearly $50 in FV fees charged for a transaction that was
not completed, and for which Ebay has not basis to say that they had ZERO involvement in arranging the shipping.
Short of filing a RICO action against and a false advertising action EBay, anyone have any ideas on how to proceed on this? >>
I feel for ya but leave Meg Whitman alone! She is is CEO at HP now. Hasn't been at ebay for 5 years now. (Can ya tell I work in financial services?? lol)
Sorry to the foreigners, but it's too much risk on the seller's shoulders.'
I have burned shipping to Canada also, so I refuse now.
Just got caught up in making a sale. Perhaps the Russian sellers know this trick, and it may be a new scam...
Could be an E-Bay weakness that foreigners thrive on.
Rick
<< <i>rookie seller mistake... >>
Actually this is somewhat correct. My wife was the one selling the item, and she has very little Ebay experience. I only got
involved after she called me in tears after trying to get somewhere with Ebay on this herself.
I still believe that Ebay has no right to FV fees when they refund money to the buyer for a transaction that was not completed. And I am pretty sure
that there is a legal basis in the area of racketeering to go after them on this.
As for their "seller protection", what they are "advertising" is deceptive and misleading. They are intimately familiar with all the various shipping/delivery
providers and the specifics of the services that each one offers. They know DAMN well which service levels might disqualify a seller from their supposed
"protection", and have an obligation to alert sellers of this at the time they are facilitating the purchase of shipping services through their platform.
The reason they don't do it is simply to avoid seller protection claims. If they were truly not involved in the facilitating of the seller arranging shipping then
there would be no Ebay-negotiated discounting, nor would they have all of the various service levels for each shipping provider on their listing drop-down
selector when you list. They also wouldn't have direct capture of the tracking information into their platform when they link you to the shipping provider, nor
would they have a shipping calculator capability integrated within their platform.
Bottom line is that what they are doing is morally unethical, and it wouldn't surprise me if I can convince a small claims court judge of this.
Dave
Was the paypal transaction fee credited back to the total sum of the debit so that only the net payment amount was debited from your paypal account?
I do think that ebay/paypal will credit your account back for the FVF transaction. I would try to get some clarification on this.
Ebay/paypal terms stipulate that any purchase over $250 requires a signature for proof of delivery so in that case, I would never ship anything to anyone on ebay without signature confirmation (and insurance) if the value exceeds that level. That way, even if the mailperson does not obtain the signature as required, you will at least be able to file an insurance claim to make yourself whole.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I was on with Ebay for more than an hour (from overseas no less) yesterday and they REFUSE to credit the FV Fees back. They
insist that they did their job and have the right to this despite the facts that:
1) They ARE involed in the shipping
2) The tracking number on the shipping they facilitated for my wife is in their system
3) They can see that same tracking number in the USPS tracking system
What they are doing is not right and if I find the legal basis that prevents them from doing it they are in for one hell of a surprise.
Dave
<< <i>Tim,
I was on with Ebay for more than an hour (from overseas no less) yesterday and they REFUSE to credit the FV Fees back. They
insist that they did their job and have the right to this despite the facts that:
1) They ARE involed in the shipping
2) The tracking number on the shipping they facilitated for my wife is in their system
3) They can see that same tracking number in the USPS tracking system
What they are doing is not right and if I find the legal basis that prevents them from doing it they are in for one hell of a surprise. >>
I would agree completely in that for them to keep the FVF for a purchase they chose to refund the buyer for is not justified.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
AJ
Any seller who ships internationally is taking a huge risk. After reading several threads on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it for me.
Many complain about the USPS, but I'll wager it's BY FAR superior to any foreign countries.
I have had foreign buyers complain about the high shipping costs when I have considered selling out of the US, when I tell them to send an international money order and I will ship cheaper, they decline every time. If the buyer is unwilling to risk it, I am certainly not going to put myself in the position of giving my items away for free.
Many here have had good luck selling to other countries, I choose not to.
Joe
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
All in all, for me, just not worth it.
I am sure many people ship internationally with few or no problems.
Joe