NOOB QUESTION ABOUT BIG UNOPENED PRODUCT PURCHASE
PatrickBateman
Posts: 21
So I was bringing my 2000-threadcount sheets to the Chinese cleaners this morning (cranberry juice stains) and contemplating how best to spend the latest interest accrued on my bonus from Pierce & Pierce. I love this hobby as much as I love the new Robert Palmer tape, so I chose to drop my new 100k on cards.
The question naturally then became, "What cards?" I initially had the notion of buying the following...
1. POOR grade Babe Ruth RC with eye appeal - approx 60K. After all, he's the best player ever, hands down, and biggest name in the sport.
2. American Caramel Honus Wagner (portrait with blue background) - not the T206, but a fantastic card. 5k.
3. 1952T Mantle PSA 5 - 15k. The icon, not much to be said here.
4. 1986 Fleer Jordan RC PSA 10 - 9k for the Ruth of hoops.
5. Next, an assortment of my favorite RCs: PSA 8 Ryan, PSA 9s of Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Joe Montana, etc. Total spend of 100k.
6. * Anything left over would go to duct tape and fine Chardonnay.
But then I started reading these boards, and I came upon unopened and BBCExchange. I realized I was being an idiot with those above cards, and instead searched my soul and came to this epiphany...
I. JUST. WANT. TO. FIT. IN.
So I just spent the 100K on this stuff instead...
1. 1975 Mini Wax Case - 35k.
2. 1979 Wax case - 15k.
3. Assorted 1980s Wax and Rack cases - 25k.
4. 1977 Rack case - 20k.
5. Star top cello packs, PSA graded - remaining 5k.
I mean, this is a huge win. The supply of unopened is always going down-- unless there are any other guys like me just sitting on them. If that happened, then the supply would actually stay static and fixed, and my main assumption would be totally flawed.
But then I take solace in how I know for sure that there is just not much at all of this unopened stuff lying around. I just haven't been able to find any hard population report data for unopened the way there is for cards-- but surely this pop data exists, otherwise who knows just how much of this is really lying out there in storage units and warehouses and collections?
And so what if I'm wrong there, too-- at the end of the day, it is all about the actual tangible "thing" I have bought. The cards. Well, the cards inside the boxes and cases. That's what I bought. That's what I have. Sure, a stapled cardboard box is not much to display as compared to beautiful cards, but who knows how many GEM MT 10s are inside these boxes?! I mean, take my mini case for example. It cost me 35k. If I get a GEM MT 10 Brett, Yount, and Ryan, and a few low pop mint commons, there's my money back. Surely there is precedent for past ripped boxes and cases yielding such cards-- oh, and I forgot the grading fees.
On second thought forget ripping. It now seems to me like that is totally stupid. That will only make other guys' cases worth more, and most of all the prices now seem to have no correlation whatsoever to the contents. So, wait-- then if these boxes and cases are not valued on their contents, where is all this value coming from? The premium on coolness and nostalgia and fun factor, I guess. But how much is nostalgia and fun factor worth? Tens of thousands? It can't be based on rarity, because I can't tell for sure how many exist. It can't be based on what's inside, because even the most generous projections have me coming up short and needing huge luck with graders to break even. So where is the value really coming from?
Maybe it's just an irrational frenzy, being whipped up by zealots-- tough to tell. Now that I think of it, maybe I should have just bought a new tanning bed or those single cards. Maybe I should sell my new cases and boxes. I know what I paid for them at BBCE and I know others will pay BBCE the same, so I should get the same or wait and get more. But when I do sell, will I be able to command the prices BBCE does, or is there just that one and only place that commands top dollar for these items? Man, that would suck for anyone like me trying to sell. So here I am looking at the prices BBCE is getting and thinking that is what my items are worth, but really they lose a chunk of value the second they leave BBCE and enter my home. Not a smart buy for me. I just called some big AHs, and they told me they even have to put disclaimers on their unopened, that they cannot guarantee anything about boxes and cases.
Whatever, think I will hold this stuff and wait for all the rippers to make mine worth a bundle. But then again, without being able to quantify what is out there and what exactly is being ripped and when, if at all, how will I be able to prove my stuff if rare when I want to sell it? Man this has me going in circles now. Spiraling circles.
I collected cards as a kid, why did I not just get cards now? I mean having the boxes takes me back to my boyhood when life was simple, and seeing the boxes displayed with all the packs is a great cool nostalgic feeling-- so why didn't I just buy a box or two-- why did I blow all this money hoping for an investment, when the facts of supply are not there, no one is ripping so supply is staying the same, and the contents are likely all OC junk, and there's only one guy in the world who gets top dollar for it? I could have just put a couple boxes out on my dresser and been happy with a small purchase. And had all those other amazing cards of big legends to look at. Now I'm staring at some closed cardboard boxes that just take up space, with likely crap inside, and I threw huge money at a premium to buy them from one place, and I will never be able to get the price that place charges.
Anyone want to trade my boxes and cases for a grouping of single cards like the ones up top?
OK, now I have to return some videotapes.
The question naturally then became, "What cards?" I initially had the notion of buying the following...
1. POOR grade Babe Ruth RC with eye appeal - approx 60K. After all, he's the best player ever, hands down, and biggest name in the sport.
2. American Caramel Honus Wagner (portrait with blue background) - not the T206, but a fantastic card. 5k.
3. 1952T Mantle PSA 5 - 15k. The icon, not much to be said here.
4. 1986 Fleer Jordan RC PSA 10 - 9k for the Ruth of hoops.
5. Next, an assortment of my favorite RCs: PSA 8 Ryan, PSA 9s of Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Joe Montana, etc. Total spend of 100k.
6. * Anything left over would go to duct tape and fine Chardonnay.
But then I started reading these boards, and I came upon unopened and BBCExchange. I realized I was being an idiot with those above cards, and instead searched my soul and came to this epiphany...
I. JUST. WANT. TO. FIT. IN.
So I just spent the 100K on this stuff instead...
1. 1975 Mini Wax Case - 35k.
2. 1979 Wax case - 15k.
3. Assorted 1980s Wax and Rack cases - 25k.
4. 1977 Rack case - 20k.
5. Star top cello packs, PSA graded - remaining 5k.
I mean, this is a huge win. The supply of unopened is always going down-- unless there are any other guys like me just sitting on them. If that happened, then the supply would actually stay static and fixed, and my main assumption would be totally flawed.
But then I take solace in how I know for sure that there is just not much at all of this unopened stuff lying around. I just haven't been able to find any hard population report data for unopened the way there is for cards-- but surely this pop data exists, otherwise who knows just how much of this is really lying out there in storage units and warehouses and collections?
And so what if I'm wrong there, too-- at the end of the day, it is all about the actual tangible "thing" I have bought. The cards. Well, the cards inside the boxes and cases. That's what I bought. That's what I have. Sure, a stapled cardboard box is not much to display as compared to beautiful cards, but who knows how many GEM MT 10s are inside these boxes?! I mean, take my mini case for example. It cost me 35k. If I get a GEM MT 10 Brett, Yount, and Ryan, and a few low pop mint commons, there's my money back. Surely there is precedent for past ripped boxes and cases yielding such cards-- oh, and I forgot the grading fees.
On second thought forget ripping. It now seems to me like that is totally stupid. That will only make other guys' cases worth more, and most of all the prices now seem to have no correlation whatsoever to the contents. So, wait-- then if these boxes and cases are not valued on their contents, where is all this value coming from? The premium on coolness and nostalgia and fun factor, I guess. But how much is nostalgia and fun factor worth? Tens of thousands? It can't be based on rarity, because I can't tell for sure how many exist. It can't be based on what's inside, because even the most generous projections have me coming up short and needing huge luck with graders to break even. So where is the value really coming from?
Maybe it's just an irrational frenzy, being whipped up by zealots-- tough to tell. Now that I think of it, maybe I should have just bought a new tanning bed or those single cards. Maybe I should sell my new cases and boxes. I know what I paid for them at BBCE and I know others will pay BBCE the same, so I should get the same or wait and get more. But when I do sell, will I be able to command the prices BBCE does, or is there just that one and only place that commands top dollar for these items? Man, that would suck for anyone like me trying to sell. So here I am looking at the prices BBCE is getting and thinking that is what my items are worth, but really they lose a chunk of value the second they leave BBCE and enter my home. Not a smart buy for me. I just called some big AHs, and they told me they even have to put disclaimers on their unopened, that they cannot guarantee anything about boxes and cases.
Whatever, think I will hold this stuff and wait for all the rippers to make mine worth a bundle. But then again, without being able to quantify what is out there and what exactly is being ripped and when, if at all, how will I be able to prove my stuff if rare when I want to sell it? Man this has me going in circles now. Spiraling circles.
I collected cards as a kid, why did I not just get cards now? I mean having the boxes takes me back to my boyhood when life was simple, and seeing the boxes displayed with all the packs is a great cool nostalgic feeling-- so why didn't I just buy a box or two-- why did I blow all this money hoping for an investment, when the facts of supply are not there, no one is ripping so supply is staying the same, and the contents are likely all OC junk, and there's only one guy in the world who gets top dollar for it? I could have just put a couple boxes out on my dresser and been happy with a small purchase. And had all those other amazing cards of big legends to look at. Now I'm staring at some closed cardboard boxes that just take up space, with likely crap inside, and I threw huge money at a premium to buy them from one place, and I will never be able to get the price that place charges.
Anyone want to trade my boxes and cases for a grouping of single cards like the ones up top?
OK, now I have to return some videotapes.
0
Comments
had you been more thoughtful and prudent, you'd own a franchise by now.
Jeff
<< <i>the future, my friend, is Ultimate Frisbee.
had you been more thoughtful and prudent, you'd own a franchise by now. >>
No way dude... Major League Combat!!
<< <i>No way dude... Major League Combat!!
WTF did I just watch???
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Triple dog dare you and I'll guarantee it will be good times.
I think, overall, that when it comes to those who do have unopened, they should embrace the following strategy and help out my investment:
DON'T JUST STARE AT IT. RIP IT.
<< <i>So I was bringing my 2000-threadcount sheets to the Chinese cleaners this morning (cranberry juice stains) and contemplating how best to spend the latest interest accrued on my bonus from Pierce & Pierce. I love this hobby as much as I love the new Robert Palmer tape, so I chose to drop my new 100k on cards.
The question naturally then became, "What cards?" I initially had the notion of buying the following...
1. POOR grade Babe Ruth RC with eye appeal - approx 60K. After all, he's the best player ever, hands down, and biggest name in the sport.
2. American Caramel Honus Wagner (portrait with blue background) - not the T206, but a fantastic card. 5k.
3. 1952T Mantle PSA 5 - 15k. The icon, not much to be said here.
4. 1986 Fleer Jordan RC PSA 10 - 9k for the Ruth of hoops.
5. Next, an assortment of my favorite RCs: PSA 8 Ryan, PSA 9s of Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Joe Montana, etc. Total spend of 100k.
6. * Anything left over would go to duct tape and fine Chardonnay.
But then I started reading these boards, and I came upon unopened and BBCExchange. I realized I was being an idiot with those above cards, and instead searched my soul and came to this epiphany...
I. JUST. WANT. TO. FIT. IN.
So I just spent the 100K on this stuff instead...
1. 1975 Mini Wax Case - 35k.
2. 1979 Wax case - 15k.
3. Assorted 1980s Wax and Rack cases - 25k.
4. 1977 Rack case - 20k.
5. Star top cello packs, PSA graded - remaining 5k.
I mean, this is a huge win. The supply of unopened is always going down-- unless there are any other guys like me just sitting on them. If that happened, then the supply would actually stay static and fixed, and my main assumption would be totally flawed.
But then I take solace in how I know for sure that there is just not much at all of this unopened stuff lying around. I just haven't been able to find any hard population report data for unopened the way there is for cards-- but surely this pop data exists, otherwise who knows just how much of this is really lying out there in storage units and warehouses and collections?
And so what if I'm wrong there, too-- at the end of the day, it is all about the actual tangible "thing" I have bought. The cards. Well, the cards inside the boxes and cases. That's what I bought. That's what I have. Sure, a stapled cardboard box is not much to display as compared to beautiful cards, but who knows how many GEM MT 10s are inside these boxes?! I mean, take my mini case for example. It cost me 35k. If I get a GEM MT 10 Brett, Yount, and Ryan, and a few low pop mint commons, there's my money back. Surely there is precedent for past ripped boxes and cases yielding such cards-- oh, and I forgot the grading fees.
On second thought forget ripping. It now seems to me like that is totally stupid. That will only make other guys' cases worth more, and most of all the prices now seem to have no correlation whatsoever to the contents. So, wait-- then if these boxes and cases are not valued on their contents, where is all this value coming from? The premium on coolness and nostalgia and fun factor, I guess. But how much is nostalgia and fun factor worth? Tens of thousands? It can't be based on rarity, because I can't tell for sure how many exist. It can't be based on what's inside, because even the most generous projections have me coming up short and needing huge luck with graders to break even. So where is the value really coming from?
Maybe it's just an irrational frenzy, being whipped up by zealots-- tough to tell. Now that I think of it, maybe I should have just bought a new tanning bed or those single cards. Maybe I should sell my new cases and boxes. I know what I paid for them at BBCE and I know others will pay BBCE the same, so I should get the same or wait and get more. But when I do sell, will I be able to command the prices BBCE does, or is there just that one and only place that commands top dollar for these items? Man, that would suck for anyone like me trying to sell. So here I am looking at the prices BBCE is getting and thinking that is what my items are worth, but really they lose a chunk of value the second they leave BBCE and enter my home. Not a smart buy for me. I just called some big AHs, and they told me they even have to put disclaimers on their unopened, that they cannot guarantee anything about boxes and cases.
Whatever, think I will hold this stuff and wait for all the rippers to make mine worth a bundle. But then again, without being able to quantify what is out there and what exactly is being ripped and when, if at all, how will I be able to prove my stuff if rare when I want to sell it? Man this has me going in circles now. Spiraling circles.
I collected cards as a kid, why did I not just get cards now? I mean having the boxes takes me back to my boyhood when life was simple, and seeing the boxes displayed with all the packs is a great cool nostalgic feeling-- so why didn't I just buy a box or two-- why did I blow all this money hoping for an investment, when the facts of supply are not there, no one is ripping so supply is staying the same, and the contents are likely all OC junk, and there's only one guy in the world who gets top dollar for it? I could have just put a couple boxes out on my dresser and been happy with a small purchase. And had all those other amazing cards of big legends to look at. Now I'm staring at some closed cardboard boxes that just take up space, with likely crap inside, and I threw huge money at a premium to buy them from one place, and I will never be able to get the price that place charges.
Anyone want to trade my boxes and cases for a grouping of single cards like the ones up top?
OK, now I have to return some videotapes. >>
Keith Olbermann has finally made an appearance on the board ladies and gentlemen. The biting sarcasm and tongue in cheek comments are simply unrivaled.
So, Keith please share with us your thoughts on Anthony Wiener
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>Pile all of your stuff and then burn it like the Joker did in Dark Knight.
Triple dog dare you and I'll guarantee it will be good times. >>
<< <i>No way dude... Major League Combat!![./q]
<< <i> WTF did I just watch??? >>
This.
Commissions
Check out my Facebook page
<< <i>So I was bringing my 2000-threadcount sheets to the Chinese cleaners this morning (cranberry juice stains) and contemplating how best to spend the latest interest accrued on my bonus from Pierce & Pierce. I love this hobby as much as I love the new Robert Palmer tape, so I chose to drop my new 100k on cards.
The question naturally then became, "What cards?" I initially had the notion of buying the following...
1. POOR grade Babe Ruth RC with eye appeal - approx 60K. After all, he's the best player ever, hands down, and biggest name in the sport.
2. American Caramel Honus Wagner (portrait with blue background) - not the T206, but a fantastic card. 5k.
3. 1952T Mantle PSA 5 - 15k. The icon, not much to be said here.
4. 1986 Fleer Jordan RC PSA 10 - 9k for the Ruth of hoops.
5. Next, an assortment of my favorite RCs: PSA 8 Ryan, PSA 9s of Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Joe Montana, etc. Total spend of 100k.
6. * Anything left over would go to duct tape and fine Chardonnay.
But then I started reading these boards, and I came upon unopened and BBCExchange. I realized I was being an idiot with those above cards, and instead searched my soul and came to this epiphany...
I. JUST. WANT. TO. FIT. IN.
So I just spent the 100K on this stuff instead...
1. 1975 Mini Wax Case - 35k.
2. 1979 Wax case - 15k.
3. Assorted 1980s Wax and Rack cases - 25k.
4. 1977 Rack case - 20k.
5. Star top cello packs, PSA graded - remaining 5k.
I mean, this is a huge win. The supply of unopened is always going down-- unless there are any other guys like me just sitting on them. If that happened, then the supply would actually stay static and fixed, and my main assumption would be totally flawed.
But then I take solace in how I know for sure that there is just not much at all of this unopened stuff lying around. I just haven't been able to find any hard population report data for unopened the way there is for cards-- but surely this pop data exists, otherwise who knows just how much of this is really lying out there in storage units and warehouses and collections?
And so what if I'm wrong there, too-- at the end of the day, it is all about the actual tangible "thing" I have bought. The cards. Well, the cards inside the boxes and cases. That's what I bought. That's what I have. Sure, a stapled cardboard box is not much to display as compared to beautiful cards, but who knows how many GEM MT 10s are inside these boxes?! I mean, take my mini case for example. It cost me 35k. If I get a GEM MT 10 Brett, Yount, and Ryan, and a few low pop mint commons, there's my money back. Surely there is precedent for past ripped boxes and cases yielding such cards-- oh, and I forgot the grading fees.
On second thought forget ripping. It now seems to me like that is totally stupid. That will only make other guys' cases worth more, and most of all the prices now seem to have no correlation whatsoever to the contents. So, wait-- then if these boxes and cases are not valued on their contents, where is all this value coming from? The premium on coolness and nostalgia and fun factor, I guess. But how much is nostalgia and fun factor worth? Tens of thousands? It can't be based on rarity, because I can't tell for sure how many exist. It can't be based on what's inside, because even the most generous projections have me coming up short and needing huge luck with graders to break even. So where is the value really coming from?
Maybe it's just an irrational frenzy, being whipped up by zealots-- tough to tell. Now that I think of it, maybe I should have just bought a new tanning bed or those single cards. Maybe I should sell my new cases and boxes. I know what I paid for them at BBCE and I know others will pay BBCE the same, so I should get the same or wait and get more. But when I do sell, will I be able to command the prices BBCE does, or is there just that one and only place that commands top dollar for these items? Man, that would suck for anyone like me trying to sell. So here I am looking at the prices BBCE is getting and thinking that is what my items are worth, but really they lose a chunk of value the second they leave BBCE and enter my home. Not a smart buy for me. I just called some big AHs, and they told me they even have to put disclaimers on their unopened, that they cannot guarantee anything about boxes and cases.
Whatever, think I will hold this stuff and wait for all the rippers to make mine worth a bundle. But then again, without being able to quantify what is out there and what exactly is being ripped and when, if at all, how will I be able to prove my stuff if rare when I want to sell it? Man this has me going in circles now. Spiraling circles.
I collected cards as a kid, why did I not just get cards now? I mean having the boxes takes me back to my boyhood when life was simple, and seeing the boxes displayed with all the packs is a great cool nostalgic feeling-- so why didn't I just buy a box or two-- why did I blow all this money hoping for an investment, when the facts of supply are not there, no one is ripping so supply is staying the same, and the contents are likely all OC junk, and there's only one guy in the world who gets top dollar for it? I could have just put a couple boxes out on my dresser and been happy with a small purchase. And had all those other amazing cards of big legends to look at. Now I'm staring at some closed cardboard boxes that just take up space, with likely crap inside, and I threw huge money at a premium to buy them from one place, and I will never be able to get the price that place charges.
Anyone want to trade my boxes and cases for a grouping of single cards like the ones up top?
OK, now I have to return some videotapes. >>
That was awesome!
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
On the applications of practical theories and facts, I give it a 2.
Solid effort.
Your Ruth card is phenomenal. Absolutely beautiful. Anybody would be proud to own it. But, just like the guys currently buying up the unopened, you bought at what may be the height of the market right after a huge run up. If it does goes higher, it probably won't go much higher. In my opinion, you'll do far better than the guys currently buying unopened but best case scenario you break even on the Ruth after transaction costs. And I think you paid 15k more than you would have if you hadn't announced to the world on net54 your desire to purchase it.
As for "fitting in", pot meet kettle.
There are definitely exceptions but quite often the best investments aren't the cards that will turn heads or impress your friends. If you know what you're doing, you can pick cards off ebay all day long and double or triple up on them a week later. Again, these won't be head turners but if profit is the motive then who cares. Ask any vintage dealer (that will give you an honest answer) where they made the majority of their money and they will tell you it was on the commons, not the superstars.
<< <i>Your business cards look incredible, Mr. Bateman. >>
Business Card Scene
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Where in the hell did you find a 1977 Topps rack case and what are you willing to sell it for
My unopened purchases have had an unintended side-benefit in the Obama economy...the mass of cardboard has cut down my electricity costs by over 40% and has reduced my carbon footprint. Of course, it has become increasingly difficult to navigate my way from the couch to the toilet.
<< <i>Photos or it never happened. >>
I guess you missed the sarcasm in the post. Glad Steve was able to confirm for you that the case was never purchased.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Photos or it never happened. >>
I guess you missed the sarcasm in the post. Glad Steve was able to confirm for you that the case was never purchased. >>
Nope, and it's clear as day in your posts also, and I wasn't the only one who brought this to his attention. Considering how crazy unopened has been these days I'm surprised you're surprised about anything. >>
Read the context of the post. The OP was using sarcasm.
If there were 1 million orders processed, and our friend Patrick Bateman spent 100k which was only his interest, it would take some of his principle to buy that much. I guess you missed my sarcasm too.
Dang, I though he was heading up a "back from the grave" tour! ! Remember This...drool...drool...drool...drool...??
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
<< <i>For me tho, certain cards like Babe, Mick, Mike were never about resale. Just pure collecting love. >>
Understood. And apologies for the pot kettle comment.
Got a nice Satchell Paige?
What's the matter--got to the show on Saturday and all the good stuff was gone?
All good, brother. We've always been cool. I actually need a Satchell, as he is a glaring hole in my collection!
Flatfoot,
The last time I was "smitten" was over my HS girlfriend
However, I would wager you could sell a 1975 Topps unopened case quicker than you could sell a PSA 7 Mantle card. Look at how many boxes Steve went through this week at $2000 a box. That tells me all I need to know about this sector of the baseball card market. People want/like opening and collecting boxes.
<< <i>Perhaps the unopened material regardless if they choose to sit on it or open it is their form of entertainment? There are many types in this hobby that collect cards, packs and boxes. I would bet there are more 1952 Topps Mantles than an unopened case of 1975 Topps. A year from now the 1952 Topps Mantle will increase in population but yet the 1975 Topps case will decrease. Either one would be a great cornerstone in any personal collection IMO. So you can't go wrong.
However, I would wager you could sell a 1975 Topps unopened case quicker than you could sell a PSA 7 Mantle card. Look at how many boxes Steve went through this week at $2000 a box. That tells me all I need to know about this sector of the baseball card market. People want/like opening and collecting boxes. >>
No one is disputing that and I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up as a counterargument cause its not.
The issue people have is lol doubling prices over basically the last six months. I got on this gravy train late and still managed to pick up 1981-1982 cello boxes as well as 1984-1991 cello boxes for basically half the price they are now listed on BBCE's webpage. This was only through March this year.
And that's why some are saying woah! This isn't sustainable...it's irrational exuberance. There's underlying stuff going on not the least of which are large sums of cash in some segments of the economy, newly found credit, HELOC's accompanying double digit real estate increases over the past year in many large coastal cities, and *gasp* even 3.5% down ARM's starting to make a comeback.
Bottom line is there's a lot of cash floating out there at the moment and it seems that some of it has found it's way to sports collectibles. It's an environment ripe for over investment.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
As mentioned, if we are talking personal entertainment or "for keeps" in one's collection then that is a totally separate thing-- and what one loves is a personal choice immune to others' analysis.
To some, the skyrocketing price of unopened material just seems hard to understand and rationalize/justify, and the well-said "irrational exuberance" some of us see can be met with tempering counterpoints is all. Makes for healthy, dual-sided discussion.
Un-opened is a funny niche right now.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
ALL MY PSA SETS
<< <i>I would wager you could sell a 1975 Topps unopened case quicker than you could sell a PSA 7 Mantle card. Look at how many boxes Steve went through this week at $2000 a box. That tells me all I need to know about this sector of the baseball card market. People want/like opening and collecting boxes. >>
A key point in Patrick Bateman's original post that should not be overlooked is that you really can't get the same price that BBCE does when you decide you want to sell. Even with BBCE shrinkwrap.
Steve Hart sold a case of 1975 Topps Minis for ~39k at the National. I'd wager you couldn't get 25k for that same exact case.
<< <i>I agree that BBCE could sell it-- I doubt if a random collector could sell it nearly as swiftly and at remotelt the same price is all. Healthy disagreement is all good; I just think the relationship between amount of would-be buyers and amount of 52 Mantles in eye appealling PSA 7 makes that Mantle a safer investment bet than buyers of a non-BBCE offered 75 case. But that's just me and that's only when comparing investment/resale. As mentioed, if we are talking personal entertainment or "for keeps" in one's collection then that is a totally separate thing and what one loves is a personal choice immune to others' analysis. >>
The 79 cello box I posted in my C'mon Now thread yesterday is plain retarded($950 currently for a beat up box with zero star power from a questionable source). That's my analysis and its a completely valid one. I swear I'd put that in a professional document if someone at work did something equivalently irrational. "Plain retarded". Pretty sure the bidders could have gotten a number of people to crack out a better box with BBCE provenance for around $700-800.
And Paul Allen is no longer handling the Fisher account. Apparently he's on vacation.
<< <i> no one is ripping so supply is staying the same >>
Not True - I can never hold onto unopened without ripping it.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would wager you could sell a 1975 Topps unopened case quicker than you could sell a PSA 7 Mantle card. Look at how many boxes Steve went through this week at $2000 a box. That tells me all I need to know about this sector of the baseball card market. People want/like opening and collecting boxes. >>
A key point in Patrick Bateman's original post that should not be overlooked is that you really can't get the same price that BBCE does when you decide you want to sell. Even with BBCE shrinkwrap.
Steve Hart sold a case of 1975 Topps Minis for ~39k at the National. I'd wager you couldn't get 25k for that same exact case. >>
Steve's buy price is likely higher than that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would wager you could sell a 1975 Topps unopened case quicker than you could sell a PSA 7 Mantle card. Look at how many boxes Steve went through this week at $2000 a box. That tells me all I need to know about this sector of the baseball card market. People want/like opening and collecting boxes. >>
A key point in Patrick Bateman's original post that should not be overlooked is that you really can't get the same price that BBCE does when you decide you want to sell. Even with BBCE shrinkwrap.
Steve Hart sold a case of 1975 Topps Minis for ~39k at the National. I'd wager you couldn't get 25k for that same exact case. >>
Steve's buy price is likely higher than that. >>
Yep
<< <i>There is NO DOUBT the "investor" has entered the un-opened world. I would say we are at the point where a good percentage of collectors are being priced out of the market. There are a few big dogs (not on this board) who are buying everything and anything they can get there hands on. Where do we go from here...................who knows? There is ceiling somewhere. 1980's, definitely. 1970's, will probably hold it's own. 1960's..........who knows. I sold my 68 wax pack last year and I can't remember seeing one for sale since. I remember someone here on the board complaining about Steve pricing his 69 cello at $500 and that it would never sell. When was the last 68 or 69 baseball anything that was on his site.
Un-opened is a funny niche right now.
Mark >>
Could you not say the same about high end graded cards right now?
A. Collector pays Steve's price for an expensive, let's say five digit+ case.
B. Upon attempted resale, Collector tries to get what BBCE is getting for that case.
C. Collector finds that other collectors in the market for such an expensive piece of unopened will only make a purchase of such magnitude from BBCE.
D. Collector either lowers his price to where potential buyers feel comfortable-- but will they even spend 20K on an unopened piece NOT from BBCE?
E. Collector finds his best price is from BBCE, which depending on time since purchase, stands to be less than or at best equal to what was paid.
<< <i>But what are the odds that a hypothetical someone bought a case for such a substantial amount from a source that is NOT BBCE? Thus if Steve's buy price is the highest, and if Steve is the only one with the confidence to see say a 10k+ unopened piece and know it is legit and buy it, the hypothetical owner winds up having to sell it back to BBCE. So a likely scenario would go something like this...
A. Collector pays Steve's price for an expensive, let's say five digit+ case.
B. Upon attempted resale, Collector tries to get what BBCE is getting for that case.
C. Collector finds that other collectors in the market for such an expensive piece of unopened will only make a purchase of such magnitude from BBCE.
D. Collector either lowers his price to where potential buyers feel comfortable-- but will they even spend 20K on an unopened piece NOT from BBCE?
E. Collector finds his best price is from BBCE, which depending on time since purchase, stands to be less than or at best equal to what was paid. >>
That's a lot of hypotheticals there. For someone who's not bullish on unopened product you seem rather focused on it. Now scan that PSA 10 Brett RC of yours, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Also, I agree that it's ok if they are an alt as long as they claim SOMEONE knows who they really are.
See, I can do sarcasm too!
Snorto~
>>
Could you not say the same about high end graded cards right now? >>
A key difference is that with high-end single graded cards, for resale purposes (not to keep forever in a collection)...
1. There is data to quantify rarity with high-end graded cards.
2. There are scans to even compare high-end graded cards within the same grade, so you know precisely what you are getting. No uncertainty there.
3. Perhaps most importantly, there are many sellers in whom buyers are confident when it comes to high-end graded cards-- whereas for very high-end unopened items (i.e., not a single late 70s box) there is really only one trusted source, namely BBCE. I'd bet that many more collectors feel confident in evaluating a slabbed single card on their own and pulling the trigger, than they would in evaluating a scan of a box or case and pulling the trigger (if it is not from BBCE).
4. Popularity/demand is greater for cards; more collectors or buyers + more trusted sales points make for a safer spend IMO. Say we are talking about a high-end rare card, be it an accurately graded condition rarity like a PSA 10 Schmidt RC or a card that is low pop in all grades, like an E107 Wagner. Unopened is still a niche compared to regular cards in terms of amount of interested buyers, and an equivalently expensive unopened item would probably have to go through just the one sales node of BBCE.
My name is Matt. If you've been on these forums a while, you will understand I am no alt. I am an active hobbyist and just find the whirlwind surrounding unopened prices lately very interesting, and wanted to have some fun discussing the issue.