<< <i>Just something weird clicking in my head..... Fraud of this sort usually, not always as there can always be complete fraud, comes when prices for the items/PMs go UP. They have been going down.
Scratching my head here..... >>
Bochi, seeing as how he was such a long-time member here, I'd guess that he's in some very bad trouble to be stooping to something like this. >>
lol, god how I love this place
anyone remember Darin W a looooooooooooooooong time poster who scammed how many CU members and possible others on ebaY?
I was this close in sending him a bunch of GSA dollars for him to sell.
How do you know this isn't the same Darin W.? I remember selling coins to him for another person. Fortunately I got paid before he turned rancid and toxic. >>
The point of my post was not to pick on Darin W...his name was that came to me; another is CAMXXXXX....I've dealt w/both of these individuals.
My point was/is that a loooooooooooooong time poster does NOT equate to trustworthiness. >>
Your "point" is only valid in hindsight in a couple of incidents. My contention is that someone who posts for a long time and has a lot of successful transactions must be in some kind of bad trouble to suddenly go criminal. I'm not excusing or minimizing his actions at all. I really hope he's prosecuted for felony theft. Nevertheless, I would ALWAYS trust a long-time, known poster on the BS&T over someone who joined a month ago and wants to sell some coins he got from his grampa.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today. Greg >>
Wow, is this guy for real? I msged him twice and have not heard back. Now, I'm furious!
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today. Greg >>
I sure hope this works out for all you guys.
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today. Greg >>
<< <i>Not suggesting pecuniary responsibility...... but isn't some form of administrative action warranted? Should the guilty party be banished from use of these boards? It is after all a privilege to post here. >>
If they committed all-out fraud don't you think that would kind of take care of itself? I don't think someone that took off with a bunch of people's cash is going to be quick to post again. I would just assume leave PCGS out of it or I would think more than likely they would just shut BST down and that would be a huge loss to the CU community. You even hinting at any responsibility for intervention makes me nervous. >>
If PCGS shut down the BST, it's rival ATS would get a lot more traffic
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today. Greg >>
Please post when you get the tracking # (not to expose it), and let us know if it was 'accepted' into the system and something is en-route. I got a feeling you might not see one, especially where the check was attempted to be cashed, this person obviously was told it had a 'don't pay' on it, yet now sends a PM to YOU that CLAIMS the package was sent. Could be that he really is in trouble, lurked to see what the reaction was over this, and is trying to stall. I do hope it was hacked in some way, but...this is another of the stranger BST's that went bad, one of the ones we'd never think would happen with a member like DB.
ITs an unverified account so there is a $500 minimal withdraw on the paypal. Everything is tracked so eventually it will go to a bank account and those are big charges. Mail fraud, identity theft, theft yadda yadda Im sure its a few years offense minimal felony charges.
<< <i>ITs an unverified account so there is a $500 minimal withdraw on the paypal. Everything is tracked so eventually it will go to a bank account and those are big charges. Mail fraud, identity theft, theft yadda yadda Im sure its a few years offense minimal felony charges. >>
You'd be lucky to get someone to take an actual report on the matter. The FBI would blow you off at record speed. In reality even if someone was charged with all of that they'd likely get probation with restitution ordered.
To all of you that seem to be getting taken I feel your pain but there is hope for you all! I had something similar happen to me not to long ago but it wasn't with coins. Long story short the guy took money from many people on a forum and came up with a hot mess of excuses to string us along and try to make us feel bad for him and forget about it. We heard excuses from having the flu, girl friend getting mugged and put in a coma, having a stroke, and the list goes on! Me and another member got in contact with his local PD and they where super helpful! They paid him a visit and magically after me waiting 3 months and some other waiting over 6 we all got our stuff back. Get In touch with his local PD and give them all the info u can on him. In the future if you have any doubt about a deal or if you want an extra sense of security ask for the persons phone number and call them to chat. Also pay via Paypal using your credit card so you have a leg to stand on!
I first want to say that I am sorry to hear something like this and wish the best to all involved. Stick together and share info., it could possibly lead to something positive.
I also think this is a good opportunity for some of us to learn something, so I have some questions that I hope that someone can answer, and it be fact, not supposition.
If a buyer pays with PPG, the buyer is taking a chance, that's understood. Question is, If a seller accepts a regular PP payment (the 3% factor), is the seller not taking the same chance the buyer is if they pay using PPG? It's a question, I'm asking. Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? Does it matter if the PP account is funded with a credit card or a bank account?
What EXACTLY does using regular PP do for the SELLER? Again, it's a question, I'm not being sarcastic, I want to learn something from this and maybe it'll clear up alot of myths, as long as someone can provide links to PP terms to effectively show what is truth.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
PoM, sorry I am not 100% sure, but I purchased a motorcycle jacket recently that was listed as "as-new". Paid $100, but when I received it there was a snap that tightened the sleeves missing. Not just the snap, but the snap should have been on a rubber holder that an elastic band went through. I could not just add a snap. Told the seller I would like to be compensated & we agreed on a refund of $20. Well that $20 was never sent, so before time ran out I opened a dispute looking for the $20 agreed upon. Paypal looked into it, sided with me and refunded the entire $100!!!
I believe Paypal pays out the money. 3% is basically an insurance payment.
I see auctions all the time stating that the item is sold "as-is", and yet Paypal shows that the item is covered by their guarantee.
Of course I also bought an other item for my motorcycle that describe the item as 'beat up" and "ugly" with blurry pictures and wires hiding the true damage. When I received it the plastic casing was broken, & wires cut. How long, even if it does work, do you think an electronic devise will continue to work on a motorcycle with the electronics exposed? Paypal ruled against me there! Just saying it's there discretion on whether to pay out, so read the descriptions carefully & ask questions if not sure.
In this instance, there should not be an issue, Paypal should pay as THEY are the INSURER. If they want the money back they can go after the seller.
To everyone affected, stick together and look for legal closure. I am amazed that folks get away with these acts by refunding money at some point in time. In essence, if someone was in debt for a few thousands and had a good rep here, they could say they had coins (or bullion) that they did not have, "sell" it to multiple people to pay off the debt, then string the buyers along for a few months. If things go right for everyone, the seller saves enough money to pay the buyers back before any legal proceedings start. FREE LOAN! This has happened before here, and I fear it will continue to happen until we see someone go to jail for it.
On the other hand, I recall that sad December a few years ago that someone did this on a grander scale and paid dearly for doing it.
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
I am amazed that folks get away with these acts by refunding money at some point in time. >>
That's mostly cuz all people care about is getting their $$$ back. Most of us don't have the time or resources to pursue legal action over trivial sums.
"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card. 2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim. 3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so... 4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number. 5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal. 6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct. 7) Scammer gets item and money.
Thank you guys for helping me to understand that selling an item on eBay is extremely risky for the seller. Something most of us know but thanks for the clarification. Just one thing though, you all stated instances going thru eBay. What I'd really like to know is about transactions on sites like here. I'll provide my example again.
Buyer pays a seller using PP gift = buyer taking a potential risk. We know this.
Now the other way around... Seller accepts a regular Paypal payment (3% is charged by Paypal to the seller). What protection does the seller have at this point? Based on the examples given when going thru eBay, I would presume, none. So it's safe to say a seller is taking just as much of a risk, actually more, as when a buyer pays using Paypal gift. The point I'm attempting to make is it's a 2 way street. Risk is incurred by someone either way, paying with Paypal gift as a buyer, or accepting a regular 3% payment as a seller. So it boils down to a matter of trust, doing alot of dd when dealing with a "new" trading partner, and making sure all info. is exchanged, and checked out, before anything is shipped or paid for. Again, I realy hope this works out for all involved and the seller gets his head handed to him.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Sounds like valid questions that should be in their own thread.....imho
That's a very good point, but I thought since there's over 75 replies and counting in this thread, this is where people are looking for answers to questions they may have regarding payments thru Paypal. My apologies if I have taken away from the main subject of the thread.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>How does our host deal with this since it occurred on the BST board? >>
Not their problem. I had a similar situation on a camera forum. 9 people were taken by the same guy. All got together and called his local police department the same day. The police were shocked as he was known in the community, just got oer his head and greedy. We got our money back, the court forced sale of his home and he is not allowed to use a computer for a few years.
Leave PCGS out of it, get together and get some complaints going. There is also a place to report online fraud. >>
I agree 100%. It's unfortunate, but this truly is not any of PCGS's concern. Buyers execute transaction on the BST at their own risk. Never ever, ever, use PayPal gift as you limit your ability for recourse later. I hope this all works out for the parties involved.
Although little consolation to those affected, I think the boards are fairly safe generally. I will say that I have done multiple transactions on the boards and never had a problem personally.
I dunno if this helps you question POM. I recently asked about a hold on a refund. They automatically ask first thing "was this a eBay transaction". I buy a lot of needed stuff for my farm with PayPal as I do not like giving out my CC # over the net. I would think a personal transaction to Paypal is the same to PayPal weather regular PP or PPG.
The reasons listed throughout this thread is why I don't sell anything on ebay.
Regardless of who you know you will not get much help from anyone if you're on the bad end of the deal. However I and the guys I work with are always happy to go beat on some stiff's door and obtain an understanding when we have been contacted from someone out of state, etc. That simply won't happen in most instances though.
This is also exactly why I use my CC on every PP purchase.
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card. 2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim. 3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so... 4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number. 5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal. 6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct. 7) Scammer gets item and money. >>
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
I have never had to deal with such a situation, but are refunds really made THAT fast? Wouldn't it be advisable for PP to wait until the seller actually has his item back in his possession before releasing any funds? Isn't the purpose of tracking to ensure delivery to a destination rather than it's in the mail, assuming that it actually is?
<< <i>Thank you guys for helping me to understand that selling an item on eBay is extremely risky for the seller. Something most of us know but thanks for the clarification. Just one thing though, you all stated instances going thru eBay. What I'd really like to know is about transactions on sites like here. I'll provide my example again.
Buyer pays a seller using PP gift = buyer taking a potential risk. We know this.
Now the other way around... Seller accepts a regular Paypal payment (3% is charged by Paypal to the seller). What protection does the seller have at this point? Based on the examples given when going thru eBay, I would presume, none. So it's safe to say a seller is taking just as much of a risk, actually more, as when a buyer pays using Paypal gift. The point I'm attempting to make is it's a 2 way street. Risk is incurred by someone either way, paying with Paypal gift as a buyer, or accepting a regular 3% payment as a seller. So it boils down to a matter of trust, doing alot of dd when dealing with a "new" trading partner, and making sure all info. is exchanged, and checked out, before anything is shipped or paid for. Again, I realy hope this works out for all involved and the seller gets his head handed to him. >>
I believe that if you play your cards right and follow the rules that PP should make you whole in the event of a problem. For a private transaction, follow the PP rules just like you would for eBay. You shouldn't have to deal with a SNAD on a private deal so that's one less headache. Keep your mailing receipts with shipping weights recorded.
I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone at the Fraud department. I will call them first thing Monday morning. Wondering if anyone else has filed a complaint. We shouldn't let this slide. This guy will go on to rip others off.
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
<< <i>How does our host deal with this since it occurred on the BST board? >>
Not their problem. I had a similar situation on a camera forum. 9 people were taken by the same guy. All got together and called his local police department the same day. The police were shocked as he was known in the community, just got oer his head and greedy. We got our money back, the court forced sale of his home and he is not allowed to use a computer for a few years.
Leave PCGS out of it, get together and get some complaints going. There is also a place to report online fraud. >>
I agree 100%. It's unfortunate, but this truly is not any of PCGS's concern. Buyers execute transaction on the BST at their own risk. Never ever, ever, use PayPal gift as you limit your ability for recourse later. I hope this all works out for the parties involved.
Although little consolation to those affected, I think the boards are fairly safe generally. I will say that I have done multiple transactions on the boards and never had a problem personally. >>
<< <i>I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone at the Fraud department. I will call them first thing Monday morning. Wondering if anyone else has filed a complaint. We shouldn't let this slide. This guy will go on to rip others off. >>
I notified my bank to stop payment on the check. He/she cashed the check at a different bank than I used. When his/her bank presented the check to my bank it was refused/refunded. I think ths person is now in deep do doo!
Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
Hi and just a quick question...from a member who has NOT used PayPal gift yet when using PayPal Gift, when in fact it is NOT a service or gift but rather a flat out purchase that you are making, does this in fact release PayPal from having to make a refund???? When a buyer/buyers uses PayPal gift for what it was NOT intended for, am I in fact breaking the intent of PayPal gift and therefore have released PayPal of their duty to refund payment???? I am just asking because I do not know... I am sorry that any member here has lost anything from anyone...and NO the PCGS people who run the coin boards should NOT be held responsible for any bad situations that occur between buyer/seller just a couple of questions and thanks to the members for any answers that are received. tonedase
<< <i>Hi and just a quick question...from a member who has NOT used PayPal gift yet when using PayPal Gift, when in fact it is NOT a service or gift but rather a flat out purchase that you are making, does this in fact release PayPal from having to make a refund???? When a buyer/buyers uses PayPal gift for what it was NOT intended for, am I in fact breaking the intent of PayPal gift and therefore have released PayPal of their duty to refund payment???? I am just asking because I do not know... I am sorry that any member here has lost anything from anyone...and NO the PCGS people who run the coin boards should NOT be held responsible for any bad situations that occur between buyer/seller just a couple of questions and thanks to the members for any answers that are received. tonedase >>
As far as I know it's like a cash deal PayPal just offers the service electronically. You would have zero protection from Paypal.
<< <i>I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone at the Fraud department. I will call them first thing Monday morning. Wondering if anyone else has filed a complaint. We shouldn't let this slide. This guy will go on to rip others off. >>
I notified my bank to stop payment on the check. He/she cashed the check at a different bank than I used. When his/her bank presented the check to my bank it was refused/refunded. I think ths person is now in deep do doo! >>
Not necessarily. Usually a bank won't cash a check unless you have the funds in a savings or checking account to cover it and they put a temporary hold on it until the check clears. He may or may not be in trouble with his bank.
All interesting takes on the regular PP of non/eBay transactions issue, but to this point, it's all been comments based on assumption....including myself. The PP gift is a known factor and a mute point imo...we already know a buyer is taking the risk in that type of transaction.
Would be nice if someone could provide a link to actual, defined terms and conditons as to how they relate to the SELLER in a 3% PP NON eBay transaction. I'm starting to think you wont find that kind of info. in black & white from them because PP likes to play it case by case when it comes to the seller being taken care of. Of course they're going to side with buyers (generally speaking) because think about it, without a buyer, they don't earn any revenue. It's inherent of them that they're going to take care of buyers far more than sellers. There I go again...giving my opinions all based on assumption, just the way PP wants it so they can continue to manipulate every situation and not have clear defined expectations. Shame on me
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>All interesting takes on the regular PP of non/eBay transactions issue, but to this point, it's all been comments based on assumption....including myself. The PP gift is a known factor and a mute point imo...we already know a buyer is taking the risk in that type of transaction.
Would be nice if someone could provide a link to actual, defined terms and conditons as to how they relate to the SELLER in a 3% PP NON eBay transaction. I'm starting to think you wont find that kind of info. in black & white from them because PP likes to play it case by case when it comes to the seller being taken care of. Of course they're going to side with buyers (generally speaking) because think about it, without a buyer, they don't earn any revenue. It's inherent of them that they're going to take care of buyers far more than sellers. There I go again...giving my opinions all based on assumption, just the way PP wants it so they can continue to manipulate every situation and not have clear defined expectations. Shame on me >>
<< <i>Cant get the link to open bajjerfan, sure it's right? >>
Possibly might be one of those things that doesn't want to be linked. On the bottom of every PP page is the word legal. Click on that and then go to the user agreement.
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card. 2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim. 3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so... 4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number. 5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal. 6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct. 7) Scammer gets item and money. >>
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
I have never had to deal with such a situation, but are refunds really made THAT fast? Wouldn't it be advisable for PP to wait until the seller actually has his item back in his possession before releasing any funds? Isn't the purpose of tracking to ensure delivery to a destination rather than it's in the mail, assuming that it actually is? >>
PP says they are policing this more than previously but there are still ongoing issues, especially with CC chargebacks. If the seller opens the 'return' package in front of a PO employee they might have a shot at recovery, but who realistically does that on a consistent basis?
Just called the Columbus PD and they won't take the report. I'd have to file with my local PD. Has anyone else been able to file directly with the Columbus PD? I'm going to go over to the local PD and file a report tomorrow.
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
Wow vpr, that's going back 6-7 YEARS and it appears he was active here with as many posts as he has. I hope he gets his head handed to him and you guys get made whole somehow.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Remember, he is STILL active here. He PMed me several days ago saying he mailed the item and would send me the tracking number later that day. Of course he never did. I am sure he is lurking here.
Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
DickyBetz - In case you're lurking here, please read the email I sent you earlier today. I'm not going to let this slide, my friend. I will post all the information here and all of the victims will contact their respective police departments with the information I have.
I have exact identification information for this guy, and his mom's contact information. I'm sure they will love to know what he's been doing online. I'm giving him one last change to make this somewhat right. The charges against him are pretty steep and with a felony record, his life will be ruined. Not good for a college student. Especially with fraud on his record, he won't be able to get any decent job.
In the event that he doesn't respond by tomorrow, should I post all the identifying information here or just PM all the victims? I don't see anything wrong with identifying this thief in a public forum. Does anyone think otherwise? I'm pretty sure I have the right guy.
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
If you look through all the bs on their youll find the posts were geared towards growth and cultivation. As for the gambling it comes hand in hand. but with his many losses I can see why he stopped playing.
Looking forward to learning more about coins from fellow well respected numismatists
In the event that he doesn't respond by tomorrow, should I post all the identifying information here or just PM all the victims?
Since you asked, I would contact DW FIRST before I did anything like that. I'd hate to see you get banned for doing something outside of the rules, not saying you would, but I would check to see if he'd be ok with it first. Just my .02.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Remember, he is STILL active here. He PMed me several days ago saying he mailed the item and would send me the tracking number later that day. Of course he never did. I am sure he is lurking here. >>
Last Visited On: June 27th, 2013 11:27 AM
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just something weird clicking in my head.....
Fraud of this sort usually, not always as there can always be complete fraud, comes when prices for the items/PMs go UP.
They have been going down.
Scratching my head here..... >>
Bochi, seeing as how he was such a long-time member here, I'd guess that he's in some very bad trouble to be stooping to something like this. >>
lol, god how I love this place
anyone remember Darin W a looooooooooooooooong time poster who scammed how many CU members and possible others on ebaY?
I was this close in sending him a bunch of GSA dollars for him to sell.
yo Darin, are you around to read this >>
How do you know this isn't the same Darin W.? I remember selling coins to him for another person. Fortunately I got paid before he turned rancid and toxic. >>
The point of my post was not to pick on Darin W...his name was that came to me; another is CAMXXXXX....I've dealt w/both of these individuals.
My point was/is that a loooooooooooooong time poster does NOT equate to trustworthiness. >>
Your "point" is only valid in hindsight in a couple of incidents. My contention is that someone who posts for a long time and has a lot of successful transactions must be in some kind of bad trouble to suddenly go criminal. I'm not excusing or minimizing his actions at all. I really hope he's prosecuted for felony theft. Nevertheless, I would ALWAYS trust a long-time, known poster on the BS&T over someone who joined a month ago and wants to sell some coins he got from his grampa.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
DickyBetz
Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM
Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today.
Greg
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz
Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM
Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today.
Greg >>
Wow, is this guy for real? I msged him twice and have not heard back. Now, I'm furious!
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz
Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM
Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today.
Greg >>
I sure hope this works out for all you guys.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz
Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM
Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today.
Greg >>
I hope others do OK.
Ah, heck.
Just reread this thread.....
Jump away!!
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>Not suggesting pecuniary responsibility...... but isn't some form of administrative action warranted? Should the guilty party be banished from use of these boards? It is after all a privilege to post here. >>
If they committed all-out fraud don't you think that would kind of take care of itself? I don't think someone that took off with a bunch of people's cash is going to be quick to post again.
I would just assume leave PCGS out of it or I would think more than likely they would just shut BST down and that would be a huge loss to the CU community. You even hinting at any responsibility for intervention makes me nervous. >>
If PCGS shut down the BST, it's rival ATS would get a lot more traffic
Hope it all works out for you guys.
Will keep my fingers crosses.
Dave
<< <i>Received today....via PM after a week of no contact!
DickyBetz
Date Posted: Jun/27/2013 11:15 AM
Yes I received the check. coins are on there way! I'll have the tracking number for you later today.
Greg >>
Please post when you get the tracking # (not to expose it), and let us know if it was 'accepted' into the system and something is en-route. I got a feeling you might not see one, especially where the check was attempted to be cashed, this person obviously was told it had a 'don't pay' on it, yet now sends a PM to YOU that CLAIMS the package was sent. Could be that he really is in trouble, lurked to see what the reaction was over this, and is trying to stall. I do hope it was hacked in some way, but...this is another of the stranger BST's that went bad, one of the ones we'd never think would happen with a member like DB.
RAD#306
<< <i>ITs an unverified account so there is a $500 minimal withdraw on the paypal. Everything is tracked so eventually it will go to a bank account and those are big charges. Mail fraud, identity theft, theft yadda yadda Im sure its a few years offense minimal felony charges. >>
You'd be lucky to get someone to take an actual report on the matter. The FBI would blow you off at record speed. In reality even if someone was charged with all of that they'd likely get probation with restitution ordered.
RAD#306
I also think this is a good opportunity for some of us to learn something, so I have some questions that I hope that someone can answer, and it be fact, not supposition.
If a buyer pays with PPG, the buyer is taking a chance, that's understood.
Question is, If a seller accepts a regular PP payment (the 3% factor), is the seller not taking the same chance the buyer is if they pay using PPG? It's a question, I'm asking.
Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? Does it matter if the PP account is funded with a credit card or a bank account?
What EXACTLY does using regular PP do for the SELLER? Again, it's a question, I'm not being sarcastic, I want to learn something from this and maybe it'll clear up alot of myths, as long as someone can provide links to PP terms to effectively show what is truth.
PoM, sorry I am not 100% sure, but I purchased a motorcycle jacket recently that was listed as "as-new".
Paid $100, but when I received it there was a snap that tightened the sleeves missing. Not just the snap, but the snap should have been on a rubber holder that an elastic band went through.
I could not just add a snap.
Told the seller I would like to be compensated & we agreed on a refund of $20.
Well that $20 was never sent, so before time ran out I opened a dispute looking for the $20 agreed upon.
Paypal looked into it, sided with me and refunded the entire $100!!!
I believe Paypal pays out the money.
3% is basically an insurance payment.
I see auctions all the time stating that the item is sold "as-is", and yet Paypal shows that the item is covered by their guarantee.
Of course I also bought an other item for my motorcycle that describe the item as 'beat up" and "ugly" with blurry pictures and wires hiding the true damage.
When I received it the plastic casing was broken, & wires cut. How long, even if it does work, do you think an electronic devise will continue to work on a motorcycle with the electronics exposed?
Paypal ruled against me there! Just saying it's there discretion on whether to pay out, so read the descriptions carefully & ask questions if not sure.
In this instance, there should not be an issue, Paypal should pay as THEY are the INSURER. If they want the money back they can go after the seller.
To everyone affected, stick together and look for legal closure.
I am amazed that folks get away with these acts by refunding money at some point in time.
In essence, if someone was in debt for a few thousands and had a good rep here, they could say they had coins (or bullion) that they did not have, "sell" it to multiple people to pay off the debt, then string the buyers along for a few months. If things go right for everyone, the seller saves enough money to pay the buyers back before any legal proceedings start.
FREE LOAN!
This has happened before here, and I fear it will continue to happen until we see someone go to jail for it.
On the other hand, I recall that sad December a few years ago that someone did this on a grander scale and paid dearly for doing it.
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
I am amazed that folks get away with these acts by refunding money at some point in time.
That's mostly cuz all people care about is getting their $$$ back. Most of us don't have the time or resources to pursue legal action over trivial sums.
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card.
2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim.
3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so...
4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number.
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct.
7) Scammer gets item and money.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Just one thing though, you all stated instances going thru eBay. What I'd really like to know is about transactions on sites like here. I'll provide my example again.
Buyer pays a seller using PP gift = buyer taking a potential risk. We know this.
Now the other way around...
Seller accepts a regular Paypal payment (3% is charged by Paypal to the seller).
What protection does the seller have at this point? Based on the examples given when going thru eBay, I would presume, none.
So it's safe to say a seller is taking just as much of a risk, actually more, as when a buyer pays using Paypal gift.
The point I'm attempting to make is it's a 2 way street. Risk is incurred by someone either way, paying with Paypal gift as a buyer, or accepting a regular 3% payment as a seller.
So it boils down to a matter of trust, doing alot of dd when dealing with a "new" trading partner, and making sure all info. is exchanged, and checked out, before anything is shipped or paid for.
Again, I realy hope this works out for all involved and the seller gets his head handed to him.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
That's a very good point, but I thought since there's over 75 replies and counting in this thread, this is where people are looking for answers to questions they may have regarding payments thru Paypal.
My apologies if I have taken away from the main subject of the thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>How does our host deal with this since it occurred on the BST board? >>
Not their problem. I had a similar situation on a camera forum. 9 people were taken by the same guy. All got together and called his local police department the same day. The police were shocked as he was known in the community, just got oer his head and greedy. We got our money back, the court forced sale of his home and he is not allowed to use a computer for a few years.
Leave PCGS out of it, get together and get some complaints going. There is also a place to report online fraud. >>
I agree 100%. It's unfortunate, but this truly is not any of PCGS's concern. Buyers execute transaction on the BST at their own risk. Never ever, ever, use PayPal gift as you limit your ability for recourse later. I hope this all works out for the parties involved.
Although little consolation to those affected, I think the boards are fairly safe generally. I will say that I have done multiple transactions on the boards and never had a problem personally.
Regardless of who you know you will not get much help from anyone if you're on the bad end of the deal. However I and the guys I work with are always happy to go beat on some stiff's door and obtain an understanding when we have been contacted from someone out of state, etc. That simply won't happen in most instances though.
This is also exactly why I use my CC on every PP purchase.
Lots of interesting info in this thread
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card.
2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim.
3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so...
4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number.
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct.
7) Scammer gets item and money. >>
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
I have never had to deal with such a situation, but are refunds really made THAT fast? Wouldn't it be advisable for PP to wait until the seller actually has his item back in his possession before releasing any funds? Isn't the purpose of tracking to ensure delivery to a destination rather than it's in the mail, assuming that it actually is?
<< <i>Thank you guys for helping me to understand that selling an item on eBay is extremely risky for the seller. Something most of us know but thanks for the clarification.
Just one thing though, you all stated instances going thru eBay. What I'd really like to know is about transactions on sites like here. I'll provide my example again.
Buyer pays a seller using PP gift = buyer taking a potential risk. We know this.
Now the other way around...
Seller accepts a regular Paypal payment (3% is charged by Paypal to the seller).
What protection does the seller have at this point? Based on the examples given when going thru eBay, I would presume, none.
So it's safe to say a seller is taking just as much of a risk, actually more, as when a buyer pays using Paypal gift.
The point I'm attempting to make is it's a 2 way street. Risk is incurred by someone either way, paying with Paypal gift as a buyer, or accepting a regular 3% payment as a seller.
So it boils down to a matter of trust, doing alot of dd when dealing with a "new" trading partner, and making sure all info. is exchanged, and checked out, before anything is shipped or paid for.
Again, I realy hope this works out for all involved and the seller gets his head handed to him. >>
I believe that if you play your cards right and follow the rules that PP should make you whole in the event of a problem. For a private transaction, follow the PP rules just like you would for eBay. You shouldn't have to deal with a SNAD on a private deal so that's one less headache. Keep your mailing receipts with shipping weights recorded.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How does our host deal with this since it occurred on the BST board? >>
Not their problem. I had a similar situation on a camera forum. 9 people were taken by the same guy. All got together and called his local police department the same day. The police were shocked as he was known in the community, just got oer his head and greedy. We got our money back, the court forced sale of his home and he is not allowed to use a computer for a few years.
Leave PCGS out of it, get together and get some complaints going. There is also a place to report online fraud. >>
I agree 100%. It's unfortunate, but this truly is not any of PCGS's concern. Buyers execute transaction on the BST at their own risk. Never ever, ever, use PayPal gift as you limit your ability for recourse later. I hope this all works out for the parties involved.
Although little consolation to those affected, I think the boards are fairly safe generally. I will say that I have done multiple transactions on the boards and never had a problem personally. >>
PP gift is ok if you know your buyer/seller.
<< <i>I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone at the Fraud department. I will call them first thing Monday morning. Wondering if anyone else has filed a complaint. We shouldn't let this slide. This guy will go on to rip others off. >>
I notified my bank to stop payment on the check.
He/she cashed the check at a different bank than I used.
When his/her bank presented the check to my bank it was refused/refunded.
I think ths person is now in deep do doo!
when using PayPal Gift, when in fact it is NOT a service or gift but rather a flat out purchase that you are making, does this in fact release PayPal from having to make a refund???? When a buyer/buyers uses PayPal gift for what it was NOT intended for, am I in fact breaking the intent of PayPal gift and therefore have released PayPal of their duty to refund payment????
I am just asking because I do not know...
I am sorry that any member here has lost anything from anyone...and NO the PCGS people who run the coin boards should NOT be held responsible for any bad situations that occur between buyer/seller
just a couple of questions and thanks to the members for any answers that are received.
tonedase
<< <i>Hi and just a quick question...from a member who has NOT used PayPal gift yet
when using PayPal Gift, when in fact it is NOT a service or gift but rather a flat out purchase that you are making, does this in fact release PayPal from having to make a refund???? When a buyer/buyers uses PayPal gift for what it was NOT intended for, am I in fact breaking the intent of PayPal gift and therefore have released PayPal of their duty to refund payment????
I am just asking because I do not know...
I am sorry that any member here has lost anything from anyone...and NO the PCGS people who run the coin boards should NOT be held responsible for any bad situations that occur between buyer/seller
just a couple of questions and thanks to the members for any answers that are received.
tonedase >>
As far as I know it's like a cash deal PayPal just offers the service electronically. You would have zero protection from Paypal.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wasn't able to get a hold of anyone at the Fraud department. I will call them first thing Monday morning. Wondering if anyone else has filed a complaint. We shouldn't let this slide. This guy will go on to rip others off. >>
I notified my bank to stop payment on the check.
He/she cashed the check at a different bank than I used.
When his/her bank presented the check to my bank it was refused/refunded.
I think ths person is now in deep do doo! >>
Not necessarily. Usually a bank won't cash a check unless you have the funds in a savings or checking account to cover it and they put a temporary hold on it until the check clears. He may or may not be in trouble with his bank.
Would be nice if someone could provide a link to actual, defined terms and conditons as to how they relate to the SELLER in a 3% PP NON eBay transaction. I'm starting to think you wont find that kind of info. in black & white from them because PP likes to play it case by case when it comes to the seller being taken care of.
Of course they're going to side with buyers (generally speaking) because think about it, without a buyer, they don't earn any revenue. It's inherent of them that they're going to take care of buyers far more than sellers.
There I go again...giving my opinions all based on assumption, just the way PP wants it so they can continue to manipulate every situation and not have clear defined expectations. Shame on me
<< <i>All interesting takes on the regular PP of non/eBay transactions issue, but to this point, it's all been comments based on assumption....including myself. The PP gift is a known factor and a mute point imo...we already know a buyer is taking the risk in that type of transaction.
Would be nice if someone could provide a link to actual, defined terms and conditons as to how they relate to the SELLER in a 3% PP NON eBay transaction. I'm starting to think you wont find that kind of info. in black & white from them because PP likes to play it case by case when it comes to the seller being taken care of.
Of course they're going to side with buyers (generally speaking) because think about it, without a buyer, they don't earn any revenue. It's inherent of them that they're going to take care of buyers far more than sellers.
There I go again...giving my opinions all based on assumption, just the way PP wants it so they can continue to manipulate every situation and not have clear defined expectations. Shame on me
Look USER AGREEMENT item 11.
<< <i>Cant get the link to open bajjerfan, sure it's right? >>
Possibly might be one of those things that doesn't want to be linked. On the bottom of every PP page is the word legal. Click on that and then go to the user agreement.
<< <i>
<< <i>"Could the buyer of an item that was paid for with regular PP file a claim with PP (for whatever reason they choose to)...get all of their money back...and never mail the item back to the seller therefore screwing the seller and the buyer gets all of their money back and keep the item? "
Yes. Happens on eBay with increasing frequency.
1) Buyer gets item using PP funded with a credit card.
2) Buyer immediately files a SNAD (significantly not as described) claim.
3) To be covered under "buyer protection" buyer must return the item and submit the tracking number to PP...so...
4) Buyer takes a rock, puts it in a box and returns it via an acceptable method with a tracking number.
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
6) If PP claim falls through for some reason, then the buyer simply does a chargeback through the CC that funds his PP account. CC companies aren't in the business of mediating eBay disputes so they just refund him and freeze the funds from the seller's PP acct.
7) Scammer gets item and money. >>
5) Buyer submits tracking number as proof of shipment, and gets refunded via PayPal.
I have never had to deal with such a situation, but are refunds really made THAT fast? Wouldn't it be advisable for PP to wait until the seller actually has his item back in his possession before releasing any funds? Isn't the purpose of tracking to ensure delivery to a destination rather than it's in the mail, assuming that it actually is? >>
PP says they are policing this more than previously but there are still ongoing issues, especially with CC chargebacks. If the seller opens the 'return' package in front of a PO employee they might have a shot at recovery, but who realistically does that on a consistent basis?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Cant get the link to open bajjerfan, sure it's right? >>
This may be what you're looking for.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
http://www.sr20forum.com/mechanical-oem-part-outs/199835-b14-se-r-side-skirts-sale-red.html
http://myworld.ebay.com/dickybetz/
He PMed me several days ago saying he mailed the item and would send me the tracking number later that day.
Of course he never did.
I am sure he is lurking here.
I have exact identification information for this guy, and his mom's contact information. I'm sure they will love to know what he's been doing online. I'm giving him one last change to make this somewhat right. The charges against him are pretty steep and with a felony record, his life will be ruined. Not good for a college student. Especially with fraud on his record, he won't be able to get any decent job.
In the event that he doesn't respond by tomorrow, should I post all the identifying information here or just PM all the victims? I don't see anything wrong with identifying this thief in a public forum. Does anyone think otherwise? I'm pretty sure I have the right guy.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Or more likely this. Green >>
If you look through all the bs on their youll find the posts were geared towards growth and cultivation.
As for the gambling it comes hand in hand. but with his many losses I can see why he stopped playing.
Since you asked, I would contact DW FIRST before I did anything like that. I'd hate to see you get banned for doing something outside of the rules, not saying you would, but I would check to see if he'd be ok with it first. Just my .02.
<< <i>Remember, he is STILL active here.
He PMed me several days ago saying he mailed the item and would send me the tracking number later that day.
Of course he never did.
I am sure he is lurking here. >>
Last Visited On: June 27th, 2013 11:27 AM
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O