<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players.
For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players.
Is that an actual fact or just your assumption based on this latest list? I would expect in any case for there to be more Latino players taking PEDs because the majority of players in MLB are Latino to begin with. But we have also certainly seen our fair share of high profile non-Latino players mixed up in this too--McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players.
Is that an actual fact or just your assumption based on this latest list? I would expect in any case for there to be more Latino players taking PEDs because the majority of players in MLB are Latino to begin with. But we have also certainly seen our fair share of high profile non-Latino players mixed up in this too--McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc.. >>
My comment is based on the latest list. It appears to be 19 out of 20. IMO. Surely this is something that Selig and others noticed? This isn't something where Selig needs be all "PC" and just pretend that the pink elephant in the room isn't there. As a steward of the most important sport in our country, Selig should put in place some type of targeted educational programs that focuses on Latino players. To ignore such a blatent skew in the data would be foolish.
<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players. >>
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo.
<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players. >>
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo. >>
Agreed. Your argument I think also supports the need for having targeted drug educational programs in place to a select group of players who are at higher risk for turning to steriods.
Reading some of the comments all I can do is shake my head....
In the 90s and early 2000s steroids were supposedly so rampant that MLB upped the testing and suspensions when labor negotiations rolled around. And we've had 5 or 6 guys a year get popped since suspensions have been upped to 50 games. So a logical person thinks good - testing works, we've solved the problem for the most part. But not baseball fans or media that covers baseball. Guilt is proof of guilt, and lack of proof is also proof of guilt. There are now blood testing for HGH. Outside of the Olympics Major League Baseball has the most stringent testing policies in North American Sports.
Also Melky, Colon, and Braun have been suspended previously. To everyone's knowledge they've passed every test since. Is it possible that their names on this list are resulting from the times they've been popped before? That's what I'm arguing if I'm the Players Union. I also think Major League Baseball is high if they think they'll be able to suspend them for 100 games.
My prediction nothing will happen to these guys during the 2013 season. If anything, and I personally think none of them will be hit with suspensions, the earliest this will come down will be the 2013 offseason.
The list of MLB and minor league baseball players who have received Steriod suspensions between 15 and 50 games:
Yusaku Iriki Jason Grimsley Guillermo Mota Juan Salas Neifi Pérez GG Neifi Pérez (2) Mike Cameron GG Dan Serafini José Guillén Jay Gibbons Eliézer Alfonzo J. C. Romero Manny Ramirez LF Edinson Volquez Manny Ramirez (2) SS Eliézer Alfonzo (2) Guillermo Mota (2) Freddy Galvis Marlon Byrd Melky Cabrera Bartolo Colon Yasmani Grandal Carlos Ruiz Troy Cate Willie Collazo Francisco Córdova Jesus Guzman Clay Hensley Robert Machado Damian Moss Brian Mallette (2) Jon Nunnally Julius Matos Ricardo Rodríguez Grant Roberts Eider Torres Randy Ruiz Darnell McDonald Guillermo Rodríguez Jonathan Herrera Steve Smyth Jorge Toca Luis Ugueto Wilson Delgado Ramón A. Castro (2) Josh Labandeira Matt Whiteside Randy Ruiz (2) Wilson Delgado (2) Luis Ugueto (2) Ramón Ramírez Nerio Rodríguez Abraham Núñez Yamid Haad Daniel McCutchen Francisco Cruceta Lino Urdaneta Ángel Salomé Ryan Jorgensen Luther Hackman Jordan Schafer Humberto Cota Jorge Sosa Runelvys Hernández Henry Owens Sergio Mitre Pablo Ozuna Prentice Redman Pedro López Prentice Redman (2) Omar Quintanilla Matt Kinney Kevin Frandsen
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo. >>
Alex Rodriguez is American born. Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmeiro, and Manny Ramirez all grew up in the United States and went to high school in the United States. Palmeiro was drafted out of college.
<< <i>The list of MLB and minor league baseball players who have received Steriod suspensions between 15 and 50 games:
Yusaku Iriki Jason Grimsley Guillermo Mota Juan Salas Neifi Pérez GG Neifi Pérez (2) Mike Cameron GG Dan Serafini José Guillén Jay Gibbons Eliézer Alfonzo J. C. Romero Manny Ramirez LF Edinson Volquez Manny Ramirez (2) SS Eliézer Alfonzo (2) Guillermo Mota (2) Freddy Galvis Marlon Byrd Melky Cabrera Bartolo Colon Yasmani Grandal Carlos Ruiz Troy Cate Willie Collazo Francisco Córdova Jesus Guzman Clay Hensley Robert Machado Damian Moss Brian Mallette (2) Jon Nunnally Julius Matos Ricardo Rodríguez Grant Roberts Eider Torres Randy Ruiz Darnell McDonald Guillermo Rodríguez Jonathan Herrera Steve Smyth Jorge Toca Luis Ugueto Wilson Delgado Ramón A. Castro (2) Josh Labandeira Matt Whiteside Randy Ruiz (2) Wilson Delgado (2) Luis Ugueto (2) Ramón Ramírez Nerio Rodríguez Abraham Núñez Yamid Haad Daniel McCutchen Francisco Cruceta Lino Urdaneta Ángel Salomé Ryan Jorgensen Luther Hackman Jordan Schafer Humberto Cota Jorge Sosa Runelvys Hernández Henry Owens Sergio Mitre Pablo Ozuna Prentice Redman Pedro López Prentice Redman (2) Omar Quintanilla Matt Kinney Kevin Frandsen >>
But how significant is this list when the biggest stars and highest profile players like Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro are not even on the list.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I don't know the answer to the steroid question but I do know for sure Latin players have a harder time "remembering" when they were born (i.e. Furcal)
Until MLB really gets serious, what else should we expect. Either follow-up with a serious penalty for use or stop testing and get rid of the bans! Pathetic...
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Until MLB really gets serious, what else should we expect. Either follow-up with a serious penalty for use or stop testing and get rid of the bans! Pathetic... >>
This is what I'm talking about. What is pathetic? What empirical proof do you have that testing is not working? Guys that test positive get suspended pending their appeals! Would it make you feel better if 70% tested positive? Is it hard to believe that guys don't want to risk getting caught and aren't using now. Offensive numbers have been down the past couple of years.
<< <i>I don't know the answer to the steroid question but I do know for sure Latin players have a harder time "remembering" when they were born (i.e. Furcal) >>
<< <i>Until MLB really gets serious, what else should we expect. Either follow-up with a serious penalty for use or stop testing and get rid of the bans! Pathetic... >>
This is what I'm talking about. What is pathetic? What empirical proof do you have that testing is not working? Guys that test positive get suspended pending their appeals! Would it make you feel better if 70% tested positive? Is it hard to believe that guys don't want to risk getting caught and aren't using now. Offensive numbers have been down the past couple of years. >>
MLB's policy is pathetic. Proof that testing is not working? How about the fact that there are like 23 (I think) players currently serving their long (yes, sarcasm) sentences for current use. I am with you, I can't believe players would risk their career by using this stuff. Does the current penalty really say "serious"? First time caught is 10 days, 2nd is 30, followed by 60 and then a whopping 1 year sentence. Did you read earlier, it sounded like players are encouraged to "get ahead, take the advantage" instead of prohibiting the drugs. All I'm saying is be serious and enforce some meaningful rules you set in place or get rid of them and allow the use of this stuff. Does anyone in professional sports at any level not know that certain steroids are not currently allowed? Does Ryan Braun not know the banned substance list and the levels that are prohibited?
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>What I would like to see is that if a player gets caught, not only are they suspended but the clubs have the option of voiding their contracts.
Matt >>
But I think some of the problem is that the clubs know what's going on. How about fining the clubs as well as the players? I'm talking about a serious fine; $100k or something that really sends a message. edit: along with the team option of dropping the contract. That should be in every contract.
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
Comments
<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
Is that an actual fact or just your assumption based on this latest list? I would expect in any case for there to be more Latino players taking PEDs because the majority of players in MLB are Latino to begin with. But we have also certainly seen our fair share of high profile non-Latino players mixed up in this too--McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players.
Is that an actual fact or just your assumption based on this latest list? I would expect in any case for there to be more Latino players taking PEDs because the majority of players in MLB are Latino to begin with. But we have also certainly seen our fair share of high profile non-Latino players mixed up in this too--McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc.. >>
My comment is based on the latest list. It appears to be 19 out of 20. IMO. Surely this is something that Selig and others noticed? This isn't something where Selig needs be all "PC" and just pretend that the pink elephant in the room isn't there. As a steward of the most important sport in our country, Selig should put in place some type of targeted educational programs that focuses on Latino players. To ignore such a blatent skew in the data would be foolish.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players. >>
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think the trend amongst latino players has more to do with their poverty-stricken backgrounds. These guys aren't entering baseball with dreams of being the next Hank Aaron or major record holder, they're entering the league in hope of scoring a really large contract and being "set for life" in 5 or 10 years. >>
Growing up in poverty is not an excuse for taking steroids. For whatever reason, the fact is that Latino ball players evidently have a problem taking illegal substances at a much higher rate than do African American or Caucasian players. >>
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo. >>
Agreed. Your argument I think also supports the need for having targeted drug educational programs in place to a select group of players who are at higher risk for turning to steriods.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
In the 90s and early 2000s steroids were supposedly so rampant that MLB upped the testing and suspensions when labor negotiations rolled around. And we've had 5 or 6 guys a year get popped since suspensions have been upped to 50 games. So a logical person thinks good - testing works, we've solved the problem for the most part. But not baseball fans or media that covers baseball. Guilt is proof of guilt, and lack of proof is also proof of guilt. There are now blood testing for HGH. Outside of the Olympics Major League Baseball has the most stringent testing policies in North American Sports.
Also Melky, Colon, and Braun have been suspended previously. To everyone's knowledge they've passed every test since. Is it possible that their names on this list are resulting from the times they've been popped before? That's what I'm arguing if I'm the Players Union. I also think Major League Baseball is high if they think they'll be able to suspend them for 100 games.
My prediction nothing will happen to these guys during the 2013 season. If anything, and I personally think none of them will be hit with suspensions, the earliest this will come down will be the 2013 offseason.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
Yusaku Iriki
Jason Grimsley
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Neifi Pérez GG
Neifi Pérez (2)
Mike Cameron GG
Dan Serafini
José Guillén
Jay Gibbons
Eliézer Alfonzo
J. C. Romero
Manny Ramirez LF
Edinson Volquez
Manny Ramirez (2) SS
Eliézer Alfonzo (2)
Guillermo Mota (2)
Freddy Galvis
Marlon Byrd
Melky Cabrera
Bartolo Colon
Yasmani Grandal
Carlos Ruiz
Troy Cate
Willie Collazo
Francisco Córdova
Jesus Guzman
Clay Hensley
Robert Machado
Damian Moss
Brian Mallette (2)
Jon Nunnally
Julius Matos
Ricardo Rodríguez
Grant Roberts
Eider Torres
Randy Ruiz
Darnell McDonald
Guillermo Rodríguez
Jonathan Herrera
Steve Smyth
Jorge Toca
Luis Ugueto
Wilson Delgado
Ramón A. Castro (2)
Josh Labandeira
Matt Whiteside
Randy Ruiz (2)
Wilson Delgado (2)
Luis Ugueto (2)
Ramón Ramírez
Nerio Rodríguez
Abraham Núñez
Yamid Haad
Daniel McCutchen
Francisco Cruceta
Lino Urdaneta
Ángel Salomé
Ryan Jorgensen
Luther Hackman
Jordan Schafer
Humberto Cota
Jorge Sosa
Runelvys Hernández
Henry Owens
Sergio Mitre
Pablo Ozuna
Prentice Redman
Pedro López
Prentice Redman (2)
Omar Quintanilla
Matt Kinney
Kevin Frandsen
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
It's certainly no excuse, but that doesn't change that fact that baseball, for many poor Latin American athletes, is a ticket out of hell; if and only if they are successful. So the risk/reward has higher stakes for these individuals than the average American-born players drafted out of high school or college; for an American-born athlete, if it fails, there are plenty of other opportunities to jump on. For a foreign national, failure is a trip back to status quo. >>
Alex Rodriguez is American born. Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmeiro, and Manny Ramirez all grew up in the United States and went to high school in the United States. Palmeiro was drafted out of college.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
<< <i>The list of MLB and minor league baseball players who have received Steriod suspensions between 15 and 50 games:
Yusaku Iriki
Jason Grimsley
Guillermo Mota
Juan Salas
Neifi Pérez GG
Neifi Pérez (2)
Mike Cameron GG
Dan Serafini
José Guillén
Jay Gibbons
Eliézer Alfonzo
J. C. Romero
Manny Ramirez LF
Edinson Volquez
Manny Ramirez (2) SS
Eliézer Alfonzo (2)
Guillermo Mota (2)
Freddy Galvis
Marlon Byrd
Melky Cabrera
Bartolo Colon
Yasmani Grandal
Carlos Ruiz
Troy Cate
Willie Collazo
Francisco Córdova
Jesus Guzman
Clay Hensley
Robert Machado
Damian Moss
Brian Mallette (2)
Jon Nunnally
Julius Matos
Ricardo Rodríguez
Grant Roberts
Eider Torres
Randy Ruiz
Darnell McDonald
Guillermo Rodríguez
Jonathan Herrera
Steve Smyth
Jorge Toca
Luis Ugueto
Wilson Delgado
Ramón A. Castro (2)
Josh Labandeira
Matt Whiteside
Randy Ruiz (2)
Wilson Delgado (2)
Luis Ugueto (2)
Ramón Ramírez
Nerio Rodríguez
Abraham Núñez
Yamid Haad
Daniel McCutchen
Francisco Cruceta
Lino Urdaneta
Ángel Salomé
Ryan Jorgensen
Luther Hackman
Jordan Schafer
Humberto Cota
Jorge Sosa
Runelvys Hernández
Henry Owens
Sergio Mitre
Pablo Ozuna
Prentice Redman
Pedro López
Prentice Redman (2)
Omar Quintanilla
Matt Kinney
Kevin Frandsen >>
But how significant is this list when the biggest stars and highest profile players like Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro are not even on the list.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Until MLB really gets serious, what else should we expect. Either follow-up with a serious penalty for use or stop testing and get rid of the bans! Pathetic... >>
This is what I'm talking about. What is pathetic? What empirical proof do you have that testing is not working? Guys that test positive get suspended pending their appeals! Would it make you feel better if 70% tested positive? Is it hard to believe that guys don't want to risk getting caught and aren't using now. Offensive numbers have been down the past couple of years.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>I don't know the answer to the steroid question but I do know for sure Latin players have a harder time "remembering" when they were born (i.e. Furcal) >>
Pujols has a problem with that as well...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
the weight lifting is the reason these players are stronger ... not the 'roids!
and they need to move the fences back to where they should be
if the players hit the bar/club after the games instead of the gym, we'd see those weak early/mid '70s power numbers again... lol
Get it real please, aloha
<< <i>
<< <i>Until MLB really gets serious, what else should we expect. Either follow-up with a serious penalty for use or stop testing and get rid of the bans! Pathetic... >>
This is what I'm talking about. What is pathetic? What empirical proof do you have that testing is not working? Guys that test positive get suspended pending their appeals! Would it make you feel better if 70% tested positive? Is it hard to believe that guys don't want to risk getting caught and aren't using now. Offensive numbers have been down the past couple of years. >>
MLB's policy is pathetic. Proof that testing is not working? How about the fact that there are like 23 (I think) players currently serving their long (yes, sarcasm) sentences for current use. I am with you, I can't believe players would risk their career by using this stuff. Does the current penalty really say "serious"? First time caught is 10 days, 2nd is 30, followed by 60 and then a whopping 1 year sentence. Did you read earlier, it sounded like players are encouraged to "get ahead, take the advantage" instead of prohibiting the drugs. All I'm saying is be serious and enforce some meaningful rules you set in place or get rid of them and allow the use of this stuff. Does anyone in professional sports at any level not know that certain steroids are not currently allowed? Does Ryan Braun not know the banned substance list and the levels that are prohibited?
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
Matt
<< <i>What I would like to see is that if a player gets caught, not only are they suspended but the clubs have the option of voiding their contracts.
Matt >>
But I think some of the problem is that the clubs know what's going on. How about fining the clubs as well as the players? I'm talking about a serious fine; $100k or something that really sends a message.
edit: along with the team option of dropping the contract. That should be in every contract.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>What I would like to see is that if a player gets caught, not only are they suspended but the clubs have the option of voiding their contracts.
Matt >>