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Worst buys in numismatics

I could not, for the life of me, figure out how to use the search function. So, I probably just created a duplicate thread, but it is alright, huh?
What is everyone's worst buy in numismatics?
Mine, is a 1932-S Washington quarter in Good condition that I got for $100 and sold it for $40 at a coin club auction. Not really a bad buy, more of a bad sell, but oh well. It went to a YN like me, and he got a good buy. image
So what is it everybody?
Just do it.
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Comments

  • unclebobunclebob Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    There have been many, many poor decisions on small common stuff.

    Probably the one that has been seared into my mind for life was my first coin purchases. Four raw 1995 Lincoln DDO's for about $150 each in 1995. Still got'em
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The search feature doesn't work with modern browsers. I keep an old one for those times.

    Worst buys? There's not enough space here. Every one of them was done in haste. Learn to go fast slowly.
    Lance.
  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    whoever buys this:

    worse buy
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Anything that is overgraded or problem coins in problem free holders.
    Take the holder away, what are you left with?
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • daOnlyBGdaOnlyBG Posts: 1,060 ✭✭


    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>


    Why did PCGS slab that?
    Successful BST transactions with: blu62vette, Shortgapbob, Dolan, valente151, cucamongacoin, ajaan

    Interests:
    Pre-Jump Grade Project
    Toned Commemoratives
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>I could not, for the life of me, figure out how to use the search function. So, I probably just created a duplicate thread, but it is alright, huh?
    What is everyone's worst buy in numismatics?
    Mine, is a 1932-S Washington quarter in Good condition that I got for $100 and sold it for $40 at a coin club auction. Not really a bad buy, more of a bad sell, but oh well. It went to a YN like me, and he got a good buy. image
    So what is it everybody? >>



    Mine was EF-low au graded semi key date gold. No one would pay more than melt while i had paid a date premium, also mistimed the gold market.

    Yes yes, I am the one person who lost money on gold in the last 7 years
  • coin22lovercoin22lover Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>


    Why did PCGS slab that? >>




    It doesn't matter what it looks like, genuine is genuine.
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Worst buy was a 1932-D quarter in xf45 when they were hot, paid $400, a premium even at the time, now I might be able to sell it for just north of $200.
  • daOnlyBGdaOnlyBG Posts: 1,060 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>


    Why did PCGS slab that? >>




    It doesn't matter what it looks like, genuine is genuine. >>


    I know that genuine is genuine- I just wonder why so many better looking problem coins have been rejected, that's all.
    Successful BST transactions with: blu62vette, Shortgapbob, Dolan, valente151, cucamongacoin, ajaan

    Interests:
    Pre-Jump Grade Project
    Toned Commemoratives
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    A continuous run of clad proof sets from 1965 to 1998 @ a slight Mint issue increase on the secondary market.

    '65, '66, '67 are of course SMS sets.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭
    .
  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>



    I'd gladly pay $250 for that ugly beast! It will probably go for double that though. image >>




  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    (The search function only seems to work with Internet Explorer.)


    My worst buys were "ordinary" or "low-end" or "problem" coins - no matter how "cheap" they were, I always had a hard time selling them and I usually had to sell them at a discount to the "cheap" price I paid.

    My advice?

    You don't have to buy high-grade coins, but make sure that every coin you do buy is "nice" or "really nice" for the grade. Learn how to avoid "cleaned" or dipped coins or those with toning perceived as "ugly."

    Find someone who has a really good eye (like TomB) and buy coins that he would buy (or buy from him).

    No matter the perceived premium you pay, a nice coin is easy to sell and you'll usually get a better price for it when you do sell it.

    The joy of ownership of a nice coin really does outweigh any premium you pay, while the pain of ownership of an undesirable coin really outweighs the joy of a "cheap" price.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • Ahh worst buys gotta love em image I purchased a monster toned standing liberty quarter at the central states show roughly 5 years ago for 2600.00 threw it up in a heritage auction at the fun show where it pulled a whopping 900.00. Was not thrilled but oh well.
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you want to go for something that bombs year after year buy the annual clad Proof sets from the mint. There have been a few exceptions, but the track record is really bad. The silver sets have not been much better (Last year excluded.), at least they have some good metal in them.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>



    You don't know if it is a bad buy or not yet, until it is sold.


    My two worst buys of course were from ebay. I bought a big lot of foreign coins For about $450 total worth $50 at best. Very misrepresented, they did not have buyer protection way back then. I also bought a real big lot of seated and bust coins that were way mis-represented and lost a about $7000 again no buyer protection. At least I got a federal income tax deduction for this loss.
    The main single worst coin buy was this [URL=http://s39.photobucket.com/user/bobroth1951/media/1856-s.jpg.html]image[/URL] tooled 1856-S liberty seated half dollar about 35 years ago from L&C coins. A mail order coin-I did see the tooling when I got it but for some reason did not return it.I guess I still thought that it was a rare coin, I may as well keep I might not be able to find another one-hay I was still young and dumb. I don't know why I still have it. I may have a give away one day.


    My dad's worst buy was a BU roll of 1950-D nickels right in the middle of the BU roll boom. He paid $600 for them in the 1960's!! They went to $900 and then crashed. 90 % or more of my dad's collection he got from circulation. He rarely bought any coins. He would not sell them for a loss, so they were in his estate and I bought them from the estate in 2008 and I still have them. I think I may be finally able to come close to selling them for what he paid for them about 45 years ago!

    image
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭


    << <i>... I also bought a real big lot of seated and bust coins that were way mis-represented and lost a about $7000... >>



    ouch... image
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • USMoneyloverUSMoneylover Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Haven't heard anyone mention classic commems at the height of their market compared with today. I'm sure that was painful for quite a few people.
    Finest Coins and Relics
  • KoveKove Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Haven't heard anyone mention classic commems at the height of their market compared with today. I'm sure that was painful for quite a few people. >>




    Gradeflation has lessened the pain for many in this area. Some of the MS 65s that were so expensive in 1989 are today's 66s and 67s. Same coin, higher grade, similar price. Larry Shepherd can relate how many of the commems that he auctioned off just after the market peak are now in holders 1 and often 2 points higher. Instead of gradeflation, the services say that they've just learned to use the full 70 point scale since the early days. Either way, this phenomenon has partially bailed out many commem collectors.
  • BigMooseBigMoose Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭
    Everyone pays their dues in this game, in one way or another. Hopefully, the smart buys will eventually far outweigh the bad ones.
    TomT-1794

    Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image >>



    How is it possible to upgrade a coin and lose money on it? Did the market drop while you had it in your possession?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I could not, for the life of me, figure out how to use the search function. So, I probably just created a duplicate thread, but it is alright, huh? >>



    Don't worry about it. Someone just started a thread concerning the 1964-D Peace dollar after we already had several dozen threads on this same topic.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image >>



    One of the interesting phenomena in our field is the transition zone between 58-62 (and sometimes the mystical AU64). Also, there are a lot of AU58 collectors, but I am still waiting to meet the collector who says he is trying to put together a nice matching set of MS62s. Of course, this may have nothing to do with what the Colonel is referring to, and if so please ignore this.

    As for my worst buy, I would have to check my records, but I'm pretty sure it had something to do with Buffalos, NGC's interpretation of MS65, needlenose pliers, slab debris in my garage and a very unsatisfactory grade from PCGS.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    For me - hands down - the State and National Parks quarter series as well as the Presidential Dollars.

    I think they have done more harm than good.


    Edited to say that I don't buy these I was answering the question from an overall hobby perspective.
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>

    << <i>Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image >>



    One of the interesting phenomena in our field is the transition zone between 58-62 (and sometimes the mystical AU64). Also, there are a lot of AU58 collectors, but I am still waiting to meet the collector who says he is trying to put together a nice matching set of MS62s. . >>



    For fun and as a cheep throw back to my early collecting to eat up time between trade dollars, I am putting together a set of peace dollars in mostly OGH in MS61-63, I suspect I will be back posting to this thread one day.
    Set here
  • VeepVeep Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭✭
    It's got to be the $20 Hi-Relief for me. I was aching to own one and bought a graded AU58 from a prominent national dealer. The thrill of ownership quickly wore off as I came to realize that it was like an AU50. Instead of loving the coin, I was disappointed every time that I looked at it. I sold it and swallowed my $700 lesson like a man.
    "Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"
  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image >>



    One of the interesting phenomena in our field is the transition zone between 58-62 (and sometimes the mystical AU64). Also, there are a lot of AU58 collectors, but I am still waiting to meet the collector who says he is trying to put together a nice matching set of MS62s. . >>



    For fun and as a cheep throw back to my early collecting to eat up time between trade dollars, I am putting together a set of peace dollars in mostly OGH in MS61-63, I suspect I will be back posting to this thread one day.
    Set here >>



    I stand corrected -- that is a cool set. The 28-S looks way undergraded from the slab photo (although I fully understand leaving it in the OGH).

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a friend named Walmann. He got banned from here. He sold me a platinum PR 70 coin for $5500 which, at the time was listed in the price guide at $8500. Now the value is $2100, and dropping ? Who knows ? image

    Moral(s) of the story:
    1)Buy a classic coin and leave bullion to the bullion dealers.
    2) cleaned classic coins outweigh a cleaned clock


    ... feel free to add your own image
    I'm glad I didn't take some of those "staggering losses" as I've witnessed before me.
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Every one of them was done in haste. >>


    This, or it was counterfeit. But if you take your time you can spot a counterfeit. So really, they are all done in haste.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have a friend named Walmann. He got banned from here. He sold me a platinum PR 70 coin for $5500 which, at the time was listed in the price guide at $8500. Now the value is $2100, and dropping ? Who knows ? image

    Moral(s) of the story:
    1)Buy a classic coin and leave bullion to the bullion dealers.
    2) cleaned classic coins outweigh a cleaned clock


    ... feel free to add your own image
    I'm glad I didn't take some of those "staggering losses" as I've witnessed before me. >>



    If you paid that much over melt, was it really just bullion?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,412 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>whoever buys this:

    worse buy >>



    I'd gladly pay $250 for that ugly beast! image >>

    we have a winner image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    If you paid that much over melt, was it really just bullion? >>



    Yeah, really. It is just bullion in proof !
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had a friend named Walmann. He got banned from here. He sold me a platinum PR 70 coin for $5500 which, at the time was listed in the price guide at $8500. Now the value is $2100, and dropping >>



    TwoSides2aCoin, I fixed it for ya! imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Try upgrading an 09-S VDB from 58BN to 62BN and losing money. Actually, that one's very easy. image >>



    How is it possible to upgrade a coin and lose money on it? Did the market drop while you had it in your possession? >>



    The buy for upgrade was based on CDN theory, the sell on market realities. LOL, look before you leap. You could upgrade a Norfolk from 64 to 66 and lose money every time.

    To put this in a politically correct way... I know of very few pros who place a great deal of credence in PCGS price guide values. wondercoin would be one of my ultimate arbiters on Moderns, as he trades continually in this area.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    I've been fortunate. I've rarely had to sell a coin for less than I paid, but I once took a $320 loss. I paid a bit more than I probably should and then the market on that date began spireling downward. After 8 years I finally decided to eat my losses.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    i believe the coins we buy should be a reflection of our collecting goals. if you want to be able to sell your coins for more than you paid for them ... essentially enjoying them for free, there is a rule of thumb to follow... if the coin you are looking at buying has even one full ebay page of active listings, and more than half of the listings are decent, attractive coins, the supply is greater than the demand. most modern "scarcities" fit this description to a T. a search for 1916-D mercury dimes should be an eye opener. four rolls of active listings, if even 25% are nice coins, that is 50 coins for a buyer to choose from... any day of the week, the epitome of a bad investment. now do a search for 1859-s dime ... three pieces... which coin would be a better investment ?
    if you are buying coins to enjoy them, and not really focused on making a profit when you sell, or concerned of how much you may lose, then buy what you like, with the understanding that you will enjoy the coins while you own them but you may not make anything from them
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    how does one spend $7000 on seated coins that are misrepresented ?
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i believe the coins we buy should be a reflection of our collecting goals. if you want to be able to sell your coins for more than you paid for them ... essentially enjoying them for free, there is a rule of thumb to follow... if the coin you are looking at buying has even one full ebay page of active listings, and more than half of the listings are decent, attractive coins, the supply is greater than the demand. most modern "scarcities" fit this description to a T. a search for 1916-D mercury dimes should be an eye opener. four rolls of active listings, if even 25% are nice coins, that is 50 coins for a buyer to choose from... any day of the week, the epitome of a bad investment. now do a search for 1859-s dime ... three pieces... which coin would be a better investment ?
    if you are buying coins to enjoy them, and not really focused on making a profit when you sell, or concerned of how much you may lose, then buy what you like, with the understanding that you will enjoy the coins while you own them but you may not make anything from them >>



    Coin collecting is one of those hobbies/activities where one can get back his/her monetary outlay. Playing golf, dining out, skydiving, etc. are hobbies/activities where a goodly portion of your cash expenditures will not be redeemable. Thus it behooves one to at least be mindful of spending wisely when buying coins.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>how does one spend $7000 on seated coins that are misrepresented ? >>



    Actually I spent over $8000 for a lot of seated and bust and barber silver coins and lost about $7000. It is very easy-Some of the coins in the photos were not received. The description was way off and sometimes you just take a chance. Turned out to be mostly culls with only the good side showing in the photos. I knew I was taking a chance, but I thought that I could at least get a few good coins for my collection. Most of them were just bullion silver coins. If I would have waited for the silver price to recover, my loss would have been a lot less. Someone else must have thought it to be worth the money as it was bid up to over $8000. This was 8- 10 years ago so I don't remember the exact cost.
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ha ha Colonel... We (Walmann and I ) are still friends.
    The monetary loss never got in the way of friendship. There's a plus. The coin has a provenance. It was submitted to PCGS by Walmann AFTER he bought it at the U.S. Mint. He made grade and sold to me.
    Maybe in a hundred years it will be a good story and sell for a million dollars. Or ... image Maybe put it on eBay and start it at $.99
    This could be "spam" for all intents and purposes. image
    For that matter, this could turn into the best buy in numismatics, ever.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    About six-seven years ago, bought 5-6 silver commem. half dollars (Arkansas, Columbian Expo., etc.) all in PCGS plastic 64-66, sold them four years later, lost about 1/3.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO it would have to be high grade moderns. MS/PF 70's can be expensive and have too much risk of prices going down as more are graded.Also newly discovered varieties in modern coins.The worst beating I ever took was on the 2004-D Wisconsin errors.
    Trade $'s
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    if i was going to spend $8k on a group lot of coins i would have to ask for better pics, so i knew exactly what i was buying. if you arent sure what you are buying in the first place, its not really fair to call it a "misrepresentation"
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>if i was going to spend $8k on a group lot of coins i would have to ask for better pics, so i knew exactly what i was buying. if you arent sure what you are buying in the first place, its not really fair to call it a "misrepresentation" >>



    For the cases where coins in the photos were not received and where the description was way off, it might be appropriate to call it misrepresentation. Culls with only photos of the good side are borderline but I can see why some might call it misrepresentation.

    From seeing some of the auction posts here, I can understand how people could lose quite a bit buying coins.
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    well, i guess its just as easy to call it misrepresentation as it is to say, gee i should have maybe asked for better pics
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>well, i guess its just as easy to call it misrepresentation as it is to say, gee i should have maybe asked for better pics >>



    Sometimes better pics are not to be had. There are some sellers known for juiced and over exposed pics. For example, what would you call over exposed pics that hide hairlines and wear?

    Sometimes bad pics are bad for a reason image

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