What's wrong with this picture? 1921 Peace Dollar

terribleredmonster

This coin is in an NGC Details slab. **Not my coin, not my pictures.** I'm posting this as a learning exercise for myself (and maybe others). I have a theory as to how NGC arrived at their conclusion, but I'm not positive. I figure that posting only the information I have here may lead to some discussion that will be illuminating for me. Here are the pics:

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

...the slab.

Erik

RonB

AU maybe cleaned, doesn't look damaged or environmental problem.
Hard to tell anything (unless there was obvious harsh cleaning) from pictures like this.
There may be a small area such as in front of her nose that was lightly scrubbed at one time, who knows.

-Ron

(edited for spelling/grammer)

x2rider

<< <i>...the slab.

Spank

dcarr

The reverse looks a little bit too shiny - like from an old cleaning.

coindudeonebay

Wondering if the hard crust was considered ED?

CaptHenway

You can't grade from photos, but it looks like a decent AU to me.

AnkurJ

Environmental Damage/Corrosion was my first thought.

DanielBoone

Really hard to tell form the photos but I agree with the prior comment that the reverse may have been cleaned in the past.

DorkGirl

<< <i>You can't grade from photos, but it looks like a decent AU to me. >>



I agree. No luster is present in those pics.

terribleredmonster

Here's what I was thinking: it's a dip gone bad. That mark above "IN GOD..." looks like liquid flow to me. I'm guessing that the coin had some relatively heavy grime on it and the owner decided to dip it. After doing so, not only did he/she neglect to rinse the coin, but also didn't even bother to pat the dark stuff off with a soft cloth. What say you, folks?

Broadstruck

<< <i>Here's what I was thinking: it's a dip gone bad. That mark above "IN GOD..." looks like liquid flow to me. I'm guessing that the coin had some relatively heavy grime on it and the owner decided to dip it. After doing so, not only did he/she neglect to rinse the coin, but also didn't even bother to pat the dark stuff off with a soft cloth. What say you, folks? >>



It might have been cleaned with a baking soda solution decades ago as the reverse has that kind of look.

I don't believe this example has been dipped as the crust on this isn't non-properly dip residue that's turned.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Kove

Not dipped.

Reverse cleaned the old fashioned way, with friction.

WoodenJefferson

[URL=http://s113.photobucket.com/user/woodyoneII/media/snazzy/polishing-cloth_zpsaabd6fa8.jpg.html][/URL]

Possible: Chemically treated silver polishing cloths are abundant and when you lightly polish a silver coin between your thumb and fingers, it will only remove the tarnish on the high portions of the design. To bad, in it's current state it would also probably be rejected by our host.

Very hard to detect in images, but in the right conditions something does not look right to the graders, so it goes into the reject bin.

19Lyds

The first thing to be learned is that sometimes its impossible to tell or determine anything from a photograph.

The second thing to be learned is that no two groups of graders can agree on anything. Crack Outs and resubmissions prove this out.

terribleredmonster

<< <i>Not dipped.

Reverse cleaned the old fashioned way, with friction. >>



Looking at it now, I can clearly see what you mean. Given this statement, do you believe the obverse is un-fooled with?

terribleredmonster

<< <i>The first thing to be learned is that sometimes its impossible to tell or determine anything from a photograph. >>



While I agree with this statement at face value, we all know that interacting on forums such as these, and for many of us purchasing coins, requires judging quality by pics. That's why I like to give it a shot. I'm definitely better at judging a coin from a photo now than I was back when I started. The fact that I have improved suggests to me that there is a certain skill to it.

BillJones

<< <i>...the slab.

Erik >>



THAT is uncalled for.

BillJones

I would say that the obverse can be graded, but the reverse has been cleaned to the point where the original skin has been completely removed. It has a very unnatural look to it ... a dull metallic color that is not indicative of circulated silver.

DennisH

Light and old reverse cleaning is the only possible sin I see. Frankly, I'm more distracted by the excellent hair detail and great overall "look" of the obverse.

ColonelJessup

The obverse looks AS. Cloudy haze that stops short of the rim with different color and reflectivity. Sometimes a details coin has the most serious problem identified when multiple problems exist. Even if the "purported" hazing material came off, the cleaning would not disappear. The reverse "haze" seems more translucent, thus the cleaning more apparent/obvious.

Purely anecdotal: I saw an AT proof Morgan with a totally covered but by no means obscured staple scratch. Coin was called "scratched". Many like this abound.