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Counterfeit Morgan on eBay

OriginalityOriginality Posts: 38
in U.S. Coin Forum

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-Rare-1889-CC-Key-Date-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-Graded-XF40-Beautiful-/130915724991?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid=111000&algo=REC.CURRENT&ao=1&asc=14&meid=7915125712940691535&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=130915724991&

PCGS Cert Vert shows a different XF-40 89-CC Morgan selling through Heritage with the same Certification Number

Comments

  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,060 ✭✭✭
    ">LINK.

    .....and a bad one at that!

    image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,709 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sent him a message and then reported it.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS 15404047

    HA $2,530 Apr 20, 2012
    Ebay $3,383.33 May 25, 2013
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • JustlookingJustlooking Posts: 2,895 ✭
    Outrage.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reported.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How often does eBay take down auctions for coins in counterfeit PCGS slabs?
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    eBay is not admitting to amt of fraud in any one area, just overall.

    We take them down as we see them.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,010 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How often does eBay take down auctions for coins in counterfeit PCGS slabs? >>

    When they're reported and with good evidence, every time that I'm aware of.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reported, with the HA link in the message.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154 ✭
    Dear God, this is hideous. I'm sorry but this would've fooled me. I'm not a Morgan guy. I never would've known.
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dear God, this is hideous. I'm sorry but this would've fooled me. I'm not a Morgan guy. I never would've known. >>



    It's important to know your series. In this case, a PCGS cert lookup would have helped someone save $3k.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dear God, this is hideous. I'm sorry but this would've fooled me. I'm not a Morgan guy. I never would've known. >>



    I'm pretty sure you would need to be a Morgan guy to drop 3 dimes on a single Morgan dollar... Scary none the least though image

    Erik
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Dear God, this is hideous. I'm sorry but this would've fooled me. I'm not a Morgan guy. I never would've known. >>



    I'm pretty sure you would need to be a Morgan guy to drop 3 dimes on a single Morgan dollar... Scary none the least though image

    Erik >>



    I think one would need an interest in Morgans but that doesn't necessarily mean one would know to do counterfeit research on one.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The person who bought it probably thinks that they got a bargain because the coin looks a lot better then XF40. Looks like it sold. A one day auction to avoid the ebay police, most likely. Apparently it worked. A lot of buyers just take a shot in the dark I guess, even on a very valuable coin. Worse, if a non-collector buys it as a gift for someone with a birthday 3 months down the road.

    Bob
    image
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    from the same seller. may be these are ok, but thought i'd post em anyway

    1931 s 1c

    1889 cc $1
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The interesting thing is this crook still has a 100% positive rating with over 400 responses. image

    It shows you how much that means!
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sadly, the winning bidder will someday discover that their purchase is a fake.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is a good easy-to-implement solution to this?

    I've been thinking that perhaps PCGS should print something like the following on the insert:



    << <i>To verify authenticity, go to http://www.pcgs.com/cert/ >>



    The more people see this on new inserts the more they will know to check the website for all slabs, even old ones without the new text. It is simple, doable, and innocuous.

    This is something that can be implemented today and will probably save people hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What is a good easy-to-implement solution to this?

    I've been thinking that perhaps PCGS should print something like the following on the insert:



    << <i>To verify authenticity, go to http://www.pcgs.com/cert/ >>



    The more people see this on new inserts the more they will know to check the website for all slabs, even old ones without the new text. It is simple, doable, and innocuous.

    This is something that can be implemented today and will probably save people hundreds of thousands of dollars. >>



    Yes, but a lot of the guys who get fooled by stuff like this don't even know about the PCGS site or your ability to look up serial numbers. If ebay had an gumption they would force this guy to give a refund to the customer he just ripped off, but they won't.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • OriginalityOriginality Posts: 38
    I think the only problem with that would be, counterfeiters who fake the coin and the slab tend to use the same certification number as the genuine coin with the same cert number and numerical grade and not all coins show up with auction records like this 1889-CC did.
    Otherwise it's a wonderful idea for those coins that do show up with auction records and photos of the coin that sold.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,180 ✭✭✭✭✭
    reported
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What is a good easy-to-implement solution to this?

    I've been thinking that perhaps PCGS should print something like the following on the insert:



    << <i>To verify authenticity, go to http://www.pcgs.com/cert/ >>



    The more people see this on new inserts the more they will know to check the website for all slabs, even old ones without the new text. It is simple, doable, and innocuous.

    This is something that can be implemented today and will probably save people hundreds of thousands of dollars. >>



    Yes, but a lot of the guys who get fooled by stuff like this don't even know about the PCGS site or your ability to look up serial numbers. If ebay had an gumption they would force this guy to give a refund to the customer he just ripped off, but they won't. >>



    Having the URL on the slab is a way of informing people about the PCGS site and the ability to look up serial numbers image
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think the only problem with that would be, counterfeiters who fake the coin and the slab tend to use the same certification number as the genuine coin with the same cert number and numerical grade and not all coins show up with auction records like this 1889-CC did.
    Otherwise it's a wonderful idea for those coins that do show up with auction records and photos of the coin that sold. >>



    In this case, it would have helped because the PCGS cert look up had a link to an HA auction with different photos. The presence of TV/CF/SP/HA photos will help which is why I think this is a net benefit.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The other benefit of putting the certification link on the slab is people will learn about the PCGS website and possibly see / post on the forums where they will get real education.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists

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