This set IS NOT as high grade as the seller implied. Yes, most of us would pass on a set because there are too many sellers who overstate condition, but if it were me, I would ask for a refund.
I understand everyone is trigger happy. We're constantly hearing about people in the hobby screwing others. Someone with a familiar user name hops on the board and states their case, smothered in hyperbole, inaccuracy, and blatant lies. But no one knows the other side so they jump on and say "yeah, you're right."
But if it were me, and I was an honest seller, solid, and never screwed anyone over or even attempted to, and someone went on a public message board and proceeded to create a thread using my real name and bashing me, calling me a thief, even though it turned out that it actually was the BUYER that caused the issue, I would be pretty pissed. That stuff is there forever. It was a weak, immature, and just flat-out wrong move by Ron Burgundy.
I will stand by the seller as someone who is honest, straight forward, and reasonable. Everyone can nitpick and theorize what "may have been" or what "some sellers do" but I'm here to tell you that none of that was the case in this transaction. Some people buy things looking to flip them for profit and when they can't they try to return them. If that's your game, cool. But don't come on a public message board bashing someone for not holding your hand and guiding you through that process.
The anonymity the internet provides often causes people to believe that they're free to do whatever they like. But this hobby is a small place, much smaller than many believe, and when you choose to take an active pursuit in screwing people over it's just a matter of time before many people, many people far outside the circle one believes they're occupying, find out about it. Character is what one does when no one's looking and I'll stand by the seller's character. I wouldn't touch Ron's with ten foot pole.
Ron when yuou started this thread you stated that the seller advertised that the raw cards were in "NM-MT or better" grade, but when someone posted a link to the auction contradicting that assertion, you edited your OP. That kind of revision undermines your credibility here, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Reggie - you are by your own admission a new guy but I've been around the block a few times. It is obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that you have a connection to the seller & that's cool. Be an advocate, man, I love it.
And as for you Scott.....I'm disappointed.....I thought you'd agreed you had turned over a new Leaf, but alas it's not to be. Oh well, my offer stands......Texans prefer the high road.
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Scott.....I'm disappointed.....I thought you'd agreed you had turned over a new Leaf, but alas it's not to be. Oh well, my offer stands......Texans prefer the high road. >>
I have. But I never said that I liked you nor do I have to.
Without going into detail or making this personal, I think it ironic that you attack a seller that has been above board and have now taken two different threads to do so while distorting and changing the facts to sway favor in your direction.
I've only stated my observations as requested. When things got a little bit too ironic based upon past history, I posted such.
If you feel that you've taken the high road, perhaps you should revisit how you've handled this transaction and the posts about it.
I appreciate you extending an olive branch, but I have no interest and I have no interest into making anything in this thread personal. Opinions were asked for, rendered and irony pointed out. That is all.
<< <i>Reggie - you are by your own admission a new guy but I've been around the block a few times. It is obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that you have a connection to the seller & that's cool. Be an advocate, man, I love it. >>
I am new. Brand new. I'm wicked new. I'm so new that I haven't learned the sarcasm font yet.
Ron, I'll ask for the FIFTH time.... what's the problem with those other raw cards you posted a scan of?
From what I can tell, the seller bought the set, cherrypicked it for grading, then repackaged it to get top dollar.
Ron- let's be honest, you were going to do the same thing. Perhaps the range of 'NM to NM-MT' is a little bit of an overgrade, but it's pretty much par for the course on what you'd expect buying raw on ebay.
I'm really not trying to bash here, I've been on this end of a "Hi Grade Set" buy myself. There are way more egregious examples of sellers overgrading vintage sets, but I can see being a little disappointed in this one when it arrived. With some upgrades you might be able to break even which isn't all that terrible considering.
I buy and sell a lot. Sometimes I make assumptions and hope I can extract some value that other buyers don't see. Sometimes I see things I want to see that don't exist. Sometimes I overpay and take a loss. It is the normal risk of doing business. I can't stand it when people expect someone else to take all the risk out of the business and hide behind eBay/paypal's poor policies. You took a risk and lost; move on. Or are you going to accuse the seller of shilling since you have accused them of just abut everything else?
1973 was the first year I collected as a child and this set will always hold a soft spot for me because of the memories it holds. That being said...who pays 2K for a 1973 Topps baseball set? I am not seeing this logic in this. You can buy excellent quality sets for a good deal less than 2K.
Burgundy, no doubt in my mind you've been smoked. If that Kaat is creased you got taken I think........but you might get the last laugh if one of those 9's ever 10's
Would all the people defending the seller really have described this set like this and put "PSA 9 Mint" in the title? Then indicate that it's basically an 8 - 9 set with a few worse, but not mention that the clemente is clearly in the worse category. He took a lot of time to describe but left out a couple of accurate facts that would have made him an honest guy with a lower final price. I personally would not feel good about myself with that description of that set. If you really would, then please post your ebay name with your defense of this guy so I can avoid your auctions. Or just block me, it's the same. If you don't describe your items like this, there is a reason.
Ron,
The title says PSA 9 and Mint. Then it immediately shows everything to the contrary. The shots of the binder are pretty far away for my taste, telling me there was nothing good to see in that binder. What on earth were you expecting to arrive? Did you think he started that way and then left out his nice mint clemente? You are not new to this......
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
Looks like a nice NM to NM/MT set with typical centering for the issue. Nothing nefarious with the listing - opportunity to ask the seller any questions before bidding.
I see nothing wrong with the listing other than PSA 9 in the title. The problem as I see it is the seller is experienced and has already bumped the cards that are top end. I believe Thomas paid top dollar for pretty much what the seller said he would get.
<< <i>I understand everyone is trigger happy. We're constantly hearing about people in the hobby screwing others. Someone with a familiar user name hops on the board and states their case, smothered in hyperbole, inaccuracy, and blatant lies. But no one knows the other side so they jump on and say "yeah, you're right."
But if it were me, and I was an honest seller, solid, and never screwed anyone over or even attempted to, and someone went on a public message board and proceeded to create a thread using my real name and bashing me, calling me a thief, even though it turned out that it actually was the BUYER that caused the issue, I would be pretty pissed. That stuff is there forever. It was a weak, immature, and just flat-out wrong move by Ron Burgundy.
I will stand by the seller as someone who is honest, straight forward, and reasonable. Everyone can nitpick and theorize what "may have been" or what "some sellers do" but I'm here to tell you that none of that was the case in this transaction. Some people buy things looking to flip them for profit and when they can't they try to return them. If that's your game, cool. But don't come on a public message board bashing someone for not holding your hand and guiding you through that process.
The anonymity the internet provides often causes people to believe that they're free to do whatever they like. But this hobby is a small place, much smaller than many believe, and when you choose to take an active pursuit in screwing people over it's just a matter of time before many people, many people far outside the circle one believes they're occupying, find out about it. Character is what one does when no one's looking and I'll stand by the seller's character. I wouldn't touch Ron's with ten foot pole. >>
Thats excatly what I was gonna say,u beat me to it..
On Burgundy's own BST thread, he is descriptive about his own cards and when he says that something is ExMt or NMT, you can pretty much bet that the card you're going to receive is ExMt or NMT. Heck, Ron has even disclosed in the past that the raw card he is selling is something that he's sent to PSA before, but received back as trimmed or altered. There aren't many sellers that I know who would tell you upfront that the raw card they are selling has already been dubbed by PSA as being "trimmed", thus eliminating any chance that the seller will be able to get any value whatsoever for the card.
What I'm saying is that Burgundy is descriptive and transparent in his own sales, so he naturally expects others to be as well. Sometimes they aren't... The bashing that Burgundy has taken on this thead is both overblown and unnecessary. He's one of the good guys IMO.
I cant see any pics but if someone is selling graded cards with a raw set, they likely cherry picked the set for any PSA 9 potential cards already. >>
Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. I've bought lots of lots/sets off Ebay, but to date I don't think I've ever bought a set that includes a graded common.
Not directed at RB but it seems like more Buyers are abusing the eBay return system. When their anticipated flip becomes either minimal or negative, they can just claim items not as described within 45-days and get a full refund.
As for RB's situation, if the Seller didn't provide any scans or additional details, it would be a no brainer. I am curious to know what is RB's main issue with the raw cards, with an exception to the Kaat.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
<< Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge.
<< <i><< Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge. >>
This is pretty much what I was trying to say. Lots of unsophisticated sellers know they should grade minty looking star cards; however, if any commons have been graded you can be fairly sure that the seller isn't going to give away any of the set's equity.
<< <i><< Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge. >>
I KNEW Boopots was another one of your alt, Lee! Now I have my proof.
Based on the description of the set given by the seller, this is what I would have expected, but not what I was hoping for. I have made a lot of purchases like this from a "gamble" standpoint. You win some, you lose some. But in this hobby, you have to understand that is part of the game.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Comments
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
I noticed you edited your original post to erase your BS claim. Stay classy, Ron.
This set IS NOT as high grade as the seller implied. Yes, most of us would pass on a set because there are too many sellers who overstate condition, but if it were me, I would ask for a refund.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
But if it were me, and I was an honest seller, solid, and never screwed anyone over or even attempted to, and someone went on a public message board and proceeded to create a thread using my real name and bashing me, calling me a thief, even though it turned out that it actually was the BUYER that caused the issue, I would be pretty pissed. That stuff is there forever. It was a weak, immature, and just flat-out wrong move by Ron Burgundy.
I will stand by the seller as someone who is honest, straight forward, and reasonable. Everyone can nitpick and theorize what "may have been" or what "some sellers do" but I'm here to tell you that none of that was the case in this transaction. Some people buy things looking to flip them for profit and when they can't they try to return them. If that's your game, cool. But don't come on a public message board bashing someone for not holding your hand and guiding you through that process.
The anonymity the internet provides often causes people to believe that they're free to do whatever they like. But this hobby is a small place, much smaller than many believe, and when you choose to take an active pursuit in screwing people over it's just a matter of time before many people, many people far outside the circle one believes they're occupying, find out about it. Character is what one does when no one's looking and I'll stand by the seller's character. I wouldn't touch Ron's with ten foot pole.
<< <i>Glad to hear it. Beer is on me at the National to celebrate. I'm up for a wide ranging discussion if you are. >>
Thanks, but I'll pass. I prefer to drink with friends.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>#instantclassic >>
indeed
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
And as for you Scott.....I'm disappointed.....I thought you'd agreed you had turned over a new Leaf, but alas it's not to be. Oh well, my offer stands......Texans prefer the high road.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Texans prefer the high road.
or maybe not so much
<< <i>No response yet.
No need for the seller to freak out if the set went to a "friend's" address. Sneaky way to unwind the transaction, etc
And if it was done unintentionally, that's just comically stupid. >>
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=885448
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>Scott.....I'm disappointed.....I thought you'd agreed you had turned over a new Leaf, but alas it's not to be. Oh well, my offer stands......Texans prefer the high road.
I have. But I never said that I liked you nor do I have to.
Without going into detail or making this personal, I think it ironic that you attack a seller that has been above board and have now taken two different threads to do so while distorting and changing the facts to sway favor in your direction.
I've only stated my observations as requested. When things got a little bit too ironic based upon past history, I posted such.
If you feel that you've taken the high road, perhaps you should revisit how you've handled this transaction and the posts about it.
I appreciate you extending an olive branch, but I have no interest and I have no interest into making anything in this thread personal. Opinions were asked for, rendered and irony pointed out. That is all.
<< <i>Reggie - you are by your own admission a new guy but I've been around the block a few times. It is obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that you have a connection to the seller & that's cool. Be an advocate, man, I love it. >>
I am new. Brand new. I'm wicked new. I'm so new that I haven't learned the sarcasm font yet.
Ron, I'll ask for the FIFTH time.... what's the problem with those other raw cards you posted a scan of?
Ron- let's be honest, you were going to do the same thing. Perhaps the range of 'NM to NM-MT' is a little bit of an overgrade, but it's pretty much par for the course on what you'd expect buying raw on ebay.
who is the "hobby heavyweight" here: the buyer or the seller?
eyebone
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
eyebone
I'm really not trying to bash here, I've been on this end of a "Hi Grade Set" buy myself. There are way more egregious examples of sellers overgrading vintage sets, but I can see being a little disappointed in this one when it arrived. With some upgrades you might be able to break even which isn't all that terrible considering.
Collectable
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Would all the people defending the seller really have described this set like this and put "PSA 9 Mint" in the title? Then indicate that it's basically an 8 - 9 set with a few worse, but not mention that the clemente is clearly in the worse category. He took a lot of time to describe but left out a couple of accurate facts that would have made him an honest guy with a lower final price. I personally would not feel good about myself with that description of that set. If you really would, then please post your ebay name with your defense of this guy so I can avoid your auctions. Or just block me, it's the same. If you don't describe your items like this, there is a reason.
Ron,
The title says PSA 9 and Mint. Then it immediately shows everything to the contrary. The shots of the binder are pretty far away for my taste, telling me there was nothing good to see in that binder. What on earth were you expecting to arrive? Did you think he started that way and then left out his nice mint clemente? You are not new to this......
Enjoy the set.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Erik
<< <i>You are not new to this...... >>
none of us are. sometimes things just sink way below expectations and you have to suck it up and squeeze whatever you can from the deal.
<< <i>I understand everyone is trigger happy. We're constantly hearing about people in the hobby screwing others. Someone with a familiar user name hops on the board and states their case, smothered in hyperbole, inaccuracy, and blatant lies. But no one knows the other side so they jump on and say "yeah, you're right."
But if it were me, and I was an honest seller, solid, and never screwed anyone over or even attempted to, and someone went on a public message board and proceeded to create a thread using my real name and bashing me, calling me a thief, even though it turned out that it actually was the BUYER that caused the issue, I would be pretty pissed. That stuff is there forever. It was a weak, immature, and just flat-out wrong move by Ron Burgundy.
I will stand by the seller as someone who is honest, straight forward, and reasonable. Everyone can nitpick and theorize what "may have been" or what "some sellers do" but I'm here to tell you that none of that was the case in this transaction. Some people buy things looking to flip them for profit and when they can't they try to return them. If that's your game, cool. But don't come on a public message board bashing someone for not holding your hand and guiding you through that process.
The anonymity the internet provides often causes people to believe that they're free to do whatever they like. But this hobby is a small place, much smaller than many believe, and when you choose to take an active pursuit in screwing people over it's just a matter of time before many people, many people far outside the circle one believes they're occupying, find out about it. Character is what one does when no one's looking and I'll stand by the seller's character. I wouldn't touch Ron's with ten foot pole. >>
Thats excatly what I was gonna say,u beat me to it..
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
On Burgundy's own BST thread, he is descriptive about his own cards and when he says that something is ExMt or NMT, you can pretty much bet that the card you're going to receive is ExMt or NMT. Heck, Ron has even disclosed in the past that the raw card he is selling is something that he's sent to PSA before, but received back as trimmed or altered. There aren't many sellers that I know who would tell you upfront that the raw card they are selling has already been dubbed by PSA as being "trimmed", thus eliminating any chance that the seller will be able to get any value whatsoever for the card.
What I'm saying is that Burgundy is descriptive and transparent in his own sales, so he naturally expects others to be as well. Sometimes they aren't... The bashing that Burgundy has taken on this thead is both overblown and unnecessary. He's one of the good guys IMO.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
If someone had a "truly" NM-MT to MINT '73 set for $2k I wouldn't be able to get the cash out of my pocket fast enough.
<< <i>That being said...who pays 2K for a 1973 Topps baseball set? I am not seeing this logic in this.
If someone had a "truly" NM-MT to MINT '73 set for $2k I wouldn't be able to get the cash out of my fanny pack fast enough. >>
Fixed it for you Lee
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
I cant see any pics but if someone is selling graded cards with a raw set, they likely cherry picked the set for any PSA 9 potential cards already.
<< <i>I have the torches! Who has a lighter?
I cant see any pics but if someone is selling graded cards with a raw set, they likely cherry picked the set for any PSA 9 potential cards already. >>
Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. I've bought lots of lots/sets off Ebay, but to date I don't think I've ever bought a set that includes a graded common.
As for RB's situation, if the Seller didn't provide any scans or additional details, it would be a no brainer. I am curious to know what is RB's main issue with the raw cards, with an exception to the Kaat.
<< <i>
Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge.
<< <i><< Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge. >>
This is pretty much what I was trying to say. Lots of unsophisticated sellers know they should grade minty looking star cards; however, if any commons have been graded you can be fairly sure that the seller isn't going to give away any of the set's equity.
set is accurately described (you an see from scans that cards are (OC) and what I thought if I bought this set was that I paid to much.
<< <i><< Graded stars w/ a raw set are one thing- graded commons with a raw set are quite another. >>
I have to disagree with this statement. The registry can dictate an entire set selling for higher than expected just because of one high grade, low pop common. Registry set collectors might see just one common they would have paid 1000 for.
I think what Boo is getting at is that any type of low pop premium common would've been pulled and sold solo by a dealer with any knowledge of the graded card market, and 99.5% of the time a guy selling a set with graded commons will have that knowledge. >>
I KNEW Boopots was another one of your alt, Lee! Now I have my proof.
<< <i>
<< <i>That being said...who pays 2K for a 1973 Topps baseball set? I am not seeing this logic in this.
If someone had a "truly" NM-MT to MINT '73 set for $2k I wouldn't be able to get the cash out of my fanny pack fast enough. >>
Fixed it for you Lee >>
Post of 2013 to date.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1191977637/
Guilty as charged. In fact, you're the only one posting in this thread that's not one of my alts.
First time Ive ever been able to do a 100 post post.
<< <i>I KNEW Boopots was another one of your alt, Lee! Now I have my proof.
Guilty as charged. In fact, you're the only one posting in this thread that's not one of my alts. >>
You have talent! But would you (I) ever tell if you were really me?
I have made a lot of purchases like this from a "gamble" standpoint. You win some, you lose some. But in this hobby, you have to understand that is part of the game.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !