Do auction houses bring you the best price for your coins.....?

bidask

Or will your favorite specialist dealer give you the price you want?

jdimmick

With the rising cost of buyers premium, I think each coin would need to be weighed on an individual basis. If I had a coin that I knew would garner fierce competition, I might choose auction venue, but coins that frequently come up or have less than a large following, I might shop at few larger dealers in that specialty.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>Or will your favorite specialist dealer give you the price you want? >>

Your favorite specialist dealer is likely to both buy and sell coins using auction houses, so feel free to draw your own conclusions.

TahoeDale

Dan,

This query arises all the time, and there is no good answer for all coins.

Even the rarest of the rare can be sold by private treaty for more than an auction result, ... witness the sale last year of an 1885 Lib nickel in MS 67.
I doubt it would have realized $170,000.( not that it won't sell for more next time).

And with the 17.5% buyers premium by the big boys, a seller might realize more in a smaller sale, where the premium is 10 or 15%.

Time may also be a factor. As will the lack of freshness if the coin fails to sell publically.

Selling to a specialist dealer is fine, but you will have to take a price behind the market. I have done all.

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>With the rising cost of buyers premium, I think each coin would need to be weighed on an individual basis. If I had a coin that I knew would garner fierce competition, I might choose auction venue, but coins that frequently come up or have less than a large following, I might shop at few larger dealers in that specialty. >>



I agree. Many types of coins will bring less at auction (e.g., any kind of generic coin). Better collector coins need to have original-looking surfaces and be high-end for their grades to even be considered for sale by auction. Preferably the slabs should come with a CAC bean too.

BryceM

Private sale is almost always better for both parties...... if you can find a buyer. Well-exposed and well-presented auctions are the gold standard. The buyer/seller fees add up though. It's just like using a realtor to sell property. There are costs & benefits to any route you choose.

AnkurJ

Sometimes.

ranshdow

As a small ($5000 minimum), first-time retail consignor, expect to get 27.5% taken out of your hide. And yes, the buyer's premium certainly comes out of the consignor's hide.

Yeah you'll get full market prices at auction, but unless it ends up being a third higher than one your favorite dealer will pay promptly, it may not be worth it.

Elcontador

I think to a degree, it depends on how big a fish you are in the numismatic pond, and what sort of deal you can cut with the auction house. Ergo, I think someone like TDN would do fine. I think I would be (fill in the blank).

sniocsu

<< <i>Private sale is almost always better for both parties...... if you can find a buyer. Well-exposed and well-presented auctions are the gold standard. The buyer/seller fees add up though. It's just like using a realtor to sell property. There are costs & benefits to any route you choose. >>



This.

AMRC

They tend to bring the best prices for most coins, but depending on your "deal" the yield-to-collector is not always the highest. Depends on the coin but having a dealer help you with a Private Sale, or in some cases selling it outright to a dealer could net you more money than at auction even though the coin sells for more after the juice.

ColonelJessup

<< <i>Dan,

This query arises all the time, and there is no good answer for all coins.

Even the rarest of the rare can be sold by private treaty for more than an auction result, ... witness the sale last year of an 1885 Lib nickel in MS 67.
I doubt it would have realized $170,000.( not that it won't sell for more next time).

And with the 17.5% buyers premium by the big boys, a seller might realize more in a smaller sale, where the premium is 10 or 15%.

Time may also be a factor. As will the lack of freshness if the coin fails to sell publically.

Selling to a specialist dealer is fine, but you will have to take a price behind the market. I have done all. >>



All excellent observations from someone who's been there and done that.

I have but one disagreement. The continued insistence that a buyers fee of any size actually affects price realized makes no mathematical sense. Nothing matters to the buyer but the price "all-in"

Want to pay $1000 all-in for a coin?

15% buyers pay $850
17.5% buyers pay $825.

Perfectionists may want to point out there's probably a 1% differential.

If you're not getting over 100% of hammer you really are not doing your due diligence. Or your coins aren't worth it to the auctioneer. Not arrogance on their part. They just do the math.

Look at any section of this week's Stacks Internet-only session (I'm sure HA is just as illustrative) and see how inexpensive the coins are. Internet-only sessions have mass quantities of coins no individual dealer could take just on the transaction cost of doing the paperwork.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Dan,

This query arises all the time, and there is no good answer for all coins.

Even the rarest of the rare can be sold by private treaty for more than an auction result, ... witness the sale last year of an 1885 Lib nickel in MS 67.
I doubt it would have realized $170,000.( not that it won't sell for more next time).

And with the 17.5% buyers premium by the big boys, a seller might realize more in a smaller sale, where the premium is 10 or 15%.

Time may also be a factor. As will the lack of freshness if the coin fails to sell publically.

Selling to a specialist dealer is fine, but you will have to take a price behind the market. I have done all. >>



All excellent observations from someone who's been there and done that.

I have but one disagreement. The continued insistence that a buyers fee of any size actually affects price realized makes no mathematical sense. Nothing matters to the buyer but the price "all-in"

Want to pay $1000 all-in for a coin?

15% buyers pay $850
17.5% buyers pay $825.

Perfectionists may want to point out there's probably a 1% differential.

If you're not getting over 100% of hammer you really are not doing your due diligence. Or your coins aren't worth it to the auctioneer. Not arrogance on their part. They just do the math.

Look at any section of this week's Stacks Internet-only session (I'm sure HA is just as illustrative) and see how inexpensive the coins are. Internet-only sessions have mass quantities of coins no individual dealer could take just on the transaction cost of doing the paperwork. >>



The problem for sellers/consignors is that buyers/bidders figure the juice into their bid amounts and bid accordingly. Thus the $1,000 coin nets you either $850 or $825 depending on commish. Even at 105% of hammer you still leave $107.50 or $134 on the table compared to what the coin should have sold for if you could have gone direct to the buyer yourself. Nobody expects the auction houses to work for nothing, but in this case both you and the buyer would be better off with a $950 or so private sale. The problem has been [and still is] finding good venues with which to connect directly to the end buyer.

mrearlygold

Depends

renomedphys

I personally think that as with everything, there is a sweet spot that cuts both ways on either side.

As we all know, selling directly to the end buyer is the best in any case, let's just assume that's not possible.

Another assumption: The majority of your coins are either PQ or PQ+ (whatever that means), with only a few that are average for the grade.

Auctions are funny animals. I think we all have seen whole or partial collections being sold at auction. I'm not exactly sure what the sweet spot there is, but I'm sure we've seen cases where having "too much" only serves to let some pieces go under-appreciated.

OK, so forget about Quantity. Quality is the key. In most any case, consigning any number of very high-end items (high-end for the grade, high grade) to an auction house will cause bidders to take notice and bid strongly. I think the point about Quantity above is that there is a definite saturation point where the really great stuff at the end of the auction will cause smoe bidders to overlook stuff at the beginning.

Too few is a problem as well. Really, the whole idea is to consign just enough high-end stuff to get the attention of the right bidders so that they will fixate on acquiring some of your stuff. Once you get below that "magic number," the value of which depends on the quality of your consignments, your best shot is likely with a specialty dealer.

Makes sense, right?

keyman64

With the right material (see my sig line) and low auction fees combined with the right promotion on the BST I think the auction house will produce the best result for me....in this case anyway. It really depends upon what is being sold and the fees involved.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I personally think that as with everything, there is a sweet spot that cuts both ways on either side.

As we all know, selling directly to the end buyer is the best in any case, let's just assume that's not possible.

Another assumption: The majority of your coins are either PQ or PQ+ (whatever that means), with only a few that are average for the grade.

Auctions are funny animals. I think we all have seen whole or partial collections being sold at auction. I'm not exactly sure what the sweet spot there is, but I'm sure we've seen cases where having "too much" only serves to let some pieces go under-appreciated.

OK, so forget about Quantity. Quality is the key. In most any case, consigning any number of very high-end items (high-end for the grade, high grade) to an auction house will cause bidders to take notice and bid strongly. I think the point about Quantity above is that there is a definite saturation point where the really great stuff at the end of the auction will cause smoe bidders to overlook stuff at the beginning.

Too few is a problem as well. Really, the whole idea is to consign just enough high-end stuff to get the attention of the right bidders so that they will fixate on acquiring some of your stuff. Once you get below that "magic number," the value of which depends on the quality of your consignments, your best shot is likely with a specialty dealer.

Makes sense, right?

About the only control you will have in an auction is sometimes setting a reserve or possibly withdrawing the coin from sale. Otherwise, you have pretty much given up control of the coin. The auction house decides when it will get listed, what pics are used [they may accept yours] and how many more like it may get listed at the same time. Many smaller scale sellers will probably be better off consigning with someone who has a little more bargaining power.

>>

ColonelJessup

The less generic the coin, the greater the upside. Some coins are marginal at any price level. I see 10 MS63 HR $20's (widgets) in a sale (let's say $1500 in commission) and just shake my head. Bid/ask spread is $750. NONE of these are dealer consignments.

MS62 Saint? Is the spread as high as $100?

Got a white Norfolk in MS66? CDN ask = $400. MS64 ask = $365. Which is also MS66 bid. Widget.

Got an ED 1858-S 25c XF details? Want to wait two years to find a buyer or take a shot on an auction weenie showing up? A cripple, but a rare cripple. Caught between Heaven and Hell. Try Osburn or Richie or a few others, none of who will probably do more than say "I'll try". They aren't going to pay big-time. They know how long it could take. You can go broke buying good deals like that. I'd consign to an auction and shake my head if it lost money, then move on..

Decent MS61 Bust 10c? Consign to a dealer. He'll still want to make 10%. Grungy MS64? He's not going to want it to come back from a customer. Wholesome Bust 25c MS63. Lots of upside there.

White MS66 81-S Morgan. Widget. Battle Creek MS64 - not a widget.

The OP knew this is a superficially simplistic topic with lots of hidden nuances.

Walkerfan

Set up a table and sell yourself at a big show.