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Ducaton
Zohar
Posts: 6,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not at all within my collecting interest yet what "struck" me is the nice strike and beautiful colors. Does anyone on the forum focus on these to opine as to quality/scarcity?
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<< <i>Ducaton >>
Yes, please.
Very nice. I've owned exactly one of those, ever, and mine didn't look like that.
Andres will be along to give you a more detailed analysis in ... 3... 2... 1...
I like them, and find them to be better value than their German and Austrian counterparts.
Regardless of the accuracy of the above, I find that focusing on quality and eye appeal is seldom a losing proposition. Nice job.
EVP
[Edited to remove my mistaken assertion that a ducaton is approx 1/3Cr; I got confused.]
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OK well it's hard to follow the OP. First the witty pun on "struck" and then the use of "opine" … I couldn't help myself
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
weight just under 33 grams and a purity of 941/1000 silver - average diameter 42mm - minted between 1659-1798
this one is minted in the town of Harderwijk in the Province of Gelderland under mintmaster Carel . C . Novisadi (1758-1776) his mintmark is a treetrunk (leftside of the sword)
common names for this coin are: ducaton - dukaton - rider - silver rider .
except for certain years these coins were minted in huge numbers in many dutch provinces, most of them were melted down once they reached the import countries,
silver riders were mainly exported to the east indies by the VOC .
many were found in VOC shipwrecks : Vliegend Hert -( Flying hart) - Hollandia - De Liefde - (the Love)
this one is a new type design rider , the old type , before 1680 is much cruder of design.
1767 is a common year , catalog value in Prachtig (aUNC) is 350 euro , which is also the market value (in the Netherlands)
great coin - congrats Zohar
Earlier today, before Andres was able to reply, I decided to visit Wikipedia. I only had time to read the first paragraph but it said the silver rider was such an easily recognizable design that it became very popular in trade - and even rivaled the 8 Reales! Pretty cool historical significance.
Great newp, Zohar! And very impressive wordsmith-ing. I love it when the classic words come out for some daylight. Opine!
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
I like this one alot for above mentioned reasons - its a great example for the grade - the strike and surfaces is more than just right for a 58
Cool newp Z - you really eyeballing new horizons often - soon you'll post a new Italian Scudo or what not ...
this was the best one I could afford :S
apples and oranges.
Andres already focused on the technical details. Since I look at all major auctions and dealer inventories in both Europe and the United States I'm quite familiar with the market for these coins, in particular Gelderland. One will have to remember that this particular design was struck for well over a century and that very few collectors, if any, focus on putting together date sets. That said, the premiums for rare dates are not as big as one might expect, although a date with a mere five examples known will still sell for a premium.
As has been mentioned these were struck for trade and many ended up at the bottom of the sea, with the majority of examples seen today having some sort of corrosion from being at the bottom of the ocean for 200 years. There are certain dates that are only known from shipwrecks, and there still is a healthy market for those. Problem-free examples such as the 1767 posted by Zohar are much more difficult to find regardless of the date or province.
The value Andres has given (which equates to less than $500) is indeed a fair market value for an average, dipped out or cleaned AU piece. The present piece is much nicer. It had been in the inventory of a well-known American dealer for quite some time at the same price-level as it sold for at auction. I thought it was a nice piece but a bit lackluster and with some adjustment marks on the reverse, which happens a lot on these as weight was more important than visual appearance . That said I thought the price was fair for the piece when I saw it, but I decided to hold out for a true UNC of this particular type (at the present I don't collect these by date).
This is definitely a coin that would do much better in the American market than it does in Europe. There's a huge price difference for quality pieces although the European market is slowly catching up. When the economy improves and more people look into the scarcity of these 18th century silver pieces I'm expecting the European market to finally catch up to the American market for high-end certified coins, but that might still be a few years away.
Dennis
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8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>Ah...Gelderland. … 800+ years of coinage and a wide variety of coins struck in all parts of the province and beyond, from ancient castles to trading cities … >>
Sounds like a fairy tale! Why move to USA?
<< <i>Great looking Rider, Z. At least when you lose focus, you do it properly >>
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
Coins with such classic and universal designs so well executed are what I envision as my ideal of numismatic bliss.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ah...Gelderland. … 800+ years of coinage and a wide variety of coins struck in all parts of the province and beyond, from ancient castles to trading cities … >>
Sounds like a fairy tale! Why move to USA?
>>
Because nearly all males in your Alsatian village had been killed due to conscription in the first half of the 18th c.
At least that's how I got here........well, 9-generations later anyway. Our family patriarch sailed down the Rhine in 1750 with his wife and ~200 guilders in tow. Boarded a tall ship in Rotterdam, and landed in Philly in November 1750.
Maybe I should repatriate some of those 200 guilders, ducatons, and Lion daalders, eh?
I give away money. I collect money.
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1784 Netherlands/Utrecht Silver Ducaton
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
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