Coin show report - Dalton, GA - April 19, 2013 (1st day of the show)
1970SilverArt
Posts: 482 ✭
Today is the first day of the 49th Annual Georgia Numismatic Association Coin & Currency show. This coin show is located in Dalton, GA which is about 90 miles north of Atlanta, GA and 30 miles south of Chattanooga, TN. I decided to go to this coin show to look for silver art bars to add to my collection. The show started at 10 AM and I arrived at the show venue at 10:04 AM. I had no problem finding a place to park because it was a big location with plenty of parking spaces. Before I went inside, I decided to check what the spot prices were. Spot gold at the time that I arrived at the coin show was $1405.40/oz and spot silver was $23.45/oz at that time.
Before I get started on what else I saw, I want to state that I normally do not do a coin show report right after I have done one last month. I usually do one in March, August, and November but since the spot prices took a huge plunge to these current levels, I wanted to do another coin show report to give people an idea of what prices I saw after this big plunge in the metals spot prices.
Once I got inside the building, here is where it got very interesting. For the first time that I have been going to this show, there was a very long line of people waiting to get inside the venue to look for bullion and coins. I have never seen a very long line at this show in the past and I have been attending this particular coin show since April 2008. To try to put this in perspective, this line of people was as long as some of the lines that I have seen at some of the gun shows. I was in line for a long while but once I got in, I started looking for silver art bars.
During my search, I was also observing some prices on certain types of gold and silver bullion. Here are some prices that I have observed and asked about:
90% silver - I have seen prices of 20X face value on silver quarters. I have seen listed prices of 21X for silver halves. There was another table that had 90% (qtrs., halves, dimes) selling at 22X face value. The highest that I have seen for 90% silver was 25X which was for 1964 Kennedy Halves only.
.999 generic silver -The prices that I have seen ranged from $25 to $29. I did see several tables with .999 generic silver with most of that being silver rounds. I did see a few Johnson Matthey bars selling for $30.
Silver art bars - prices for silver art bars started at $25 and went up from there. Overall, there were not many silver bars to be had for .999 generic silver prices. I ended up buying only 2 silver art bars at this show, however, it was "better than expected" for me because I did not think that I would find any silver art bars for .999 generic silver premiums.
10-oz silver bars - $280 I have seen at one table.
100-oz silver bars - I heard one price quoted of spot + $1.00 which seems to be the best deal for any silver at this show.
Peace Dollars (raw coins) - $28 to $31. I have seem some that were higher than $31
Morgan Dollars (raw coins) - $32.00. I have seen some sell for more than that and some for less. I think that I saw another table of Morgans for $30.00. Lowest price for silver dollars (Peace and Morgans) that I have seen was $25 but I think that those were very worn but I do not remember.
1-oz Krugerrand - $1475.
SAE 25th Anniversary set - $695.00.
SAE's (not 2013) - $30. $28 was the lowest price that I have seen for one lot of SAE's. I think that I have seen prices as high as $33 for SAE's.
1/10 gold eagle - $180 to $190.
2013 Gold Eagle - $1735.
I did see other types of bullion there and I did see the usual slabbed and graded morgans and peace dollars as well as other non-PM coins. Silvertowne was also at this show but unfortunately, their melt buckets did not have any silver in it which makes sense to me given the current spot price of silver. There were many more buyers of bullion than there were sellers of bullion which also makes sense given the recent smackdown of the metals. I also did talk a several dealers at this show since they knew me from other shows and a lot of dealers did not bring any silver with them because they did not want to take a loss of selling it for less than what they paid for it. There was a dealer that took a loss on there bullion but did not seem to be worried about it because this dealer does a high volume of buying and selling bullion and this dealer is able to "average down" their cost basis. This coin show continues tomorrow and I plan to go back to it tomorrow to look for more silver art bars.
Before I get started on what else I saw, I want to state that I normally do not do a coin show report right after I have done one last month. I usually do one in March, August, and November but since the spot prices took a huge plunge to these current levels, I wanted to do another coin show report to give people an idea of what prices I saw after this big plunge in the metals spot prices.
Once I got inside the building, here is where it got very interesting. For the first time that I have been going to this show, there was a very long line of people waiting to get inside the venue to look for bullion and coins. I have never seen a very long line at this show in the past and I have been attending this particular coin show since April 2008. To try to put this in perspective, this line of people was as long as some of the lines that I have seen at some of the gun shows. I was in line for a long while but once I got in, I started looking for silver art bars.
During my search, I was also observing some prices on certain types of gold and silver bullion. Here are some prices that I have observed and asked about:
90% silver - I have seen prices of 20X face value on silver quarters. I have seen listed prices of 21X for silver halves. There was another table that had 90% (qtrs., halves, dimes) selling at 22X face value. The highest that I have seen for 90% silver was 25X which was for 1964 Kennedy Halves only.
.999 generic silver -The prices that I have seen ranged from $25 to $29. I did see several tables with .999 generic silver with most of that being silver rounds. I did see a few Johnson Matthey bars selling for $30.
Silver art bars - prices for silver art bars started at $25 and went up from there. Overall, there were not many silver bars to be had for .999 generic silver prices. I ended up buying only 2 silver art bars at this show, however, it was "better than expected" for me because I did not think that I would find any silver art bars for .999 generic silver premiums.
10-oz silver bars - $280 I have seen at one table.
100-oz silver bars - I heard one price quoted of spot + $1.00 which seems to be the best deal for any silver at this show.
Peace Dollars (raw coins) - $28 to $31. I have seem some that were higher than $31
Morgan Dollars (raw coins) - $32.00. I have seen some sell for more than that and some for less. I think that I saw another table of Morgans for $30.00. Lowest price for silver dollars (Peace and Morgans) that I have seen was $25 but I think that those were very worn but I do not remember.
1-oz Krugerrand - $1475.
SAE 25th Anniversary set - $695.00.
SAE's (not 2013) - $30. $28 was the lowest price that I have seen for one lot of SAE's. I think that I have seen prices as high as $33 for SAE's.
1/10 gold eagle - $180 to $190.
2013 Gold Eagle - $1735.
I did see other types of bullion there and I did see the usual slabbed and graded morgans and peace dollars as well as other non-PM coins. Silvertowne was also at this show but unfortunately, their melt buckets did not have any silver in it which makes sense to me given the current spot price of silver. There were many more buyers of bullion than there were sellers of bullion which also makes sense given the recent smackdown of the metals. I also did talk a several dealers at this show since they knew me from other shows and a lot of dealers did not bring any silver with them because they did not want to take a loss of selling it for less than what they paid for it. There was a dealer that took a loss on there bullion but did not seem to be worried about it because this dealer does a high volume of buying and selling bullion and this dealer is able to "average down" their cost basis. This coin show continues tomorrow and I plan to go back to it tomorrow to look for more silver art bars.
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a '70's silver art bar expert but I try my best to play one on the Internet.
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<< <i>Did you see anyone actually buying? Dealers can ask anyprice they want, but if it isntt selling then those aren't actual market prices. I'm surprised the 100 oz bar was still available. If there were strong buyers at the show then it would have been bought instantly. >>
I did see some people buying bullion of different types of gold and silver but I doubt that some of the buyer were buying that 90% at 22X face value but then again I could be wrong. I did see some people buying .999 silver.
Very nice report. Thanks for sharing.
As for the dealer tables that had 90% silver for sale , the prices did not change. The prices for 90% are still priced at between 20X to 22X face value depending on what dealer table you go to. I also want to clarify that the prices that I am seeing on the physical gold and silver are what the dealers are charging but they are not necessarily getting buyers at those prices. The prices that I mentioned in my OP and on this post are what the dealers are currently charging. My apologizes for not being clear on that in my OP. I did go back to the silvertowne table but it did not appear that they had much silver. The only silver that they appear to have was scrap silver and some silver dollars (raw Peace and Morgans).
I did end up buying a couple of sterling silver art bars today but that was it for me for the 2nd day of the show. The 3rd and last day of the show is tomorrow and I have not decided if I am going to go tomorrow. I will make a decision sometime tonight.
As for overall bullion at this show, I will sum it up like this. There was plenty of silver and there was plenty of gold to be had at this show but it was selling at a much higher premiums than normal given the recent massive smackdown of gold and silver.
I did not hear the usual constant clanking sound of coin counters counting 90% silver on the bourse. I guess not much 90% was being sold to dealers.
I brought some common date MS/PR69 PCGS gold modern commemorative $5 to sell at the show. I sold all 7 coins for full melt to the first dealer I offered them to. I had some offers on a 1 ounce gold eagle from dealers between $30 - $50 over spot.
The Dalton show had a 1804 proof bust dollar and the 1913 proof liberty nickel on display. Both coins were raw and beautiful.
A dealer in my region that sends out a daily buy fax is currently paying 20X face for 90% silver. So I'm not surprised the ask prices are 21X and 22X.
There is little to be had out there. 100 oz bars don't appear to be as popular (80c to $1.20 + spot). I suspect a lot of that is due to buyers being a little leery
of buying a large, fake bar. I don't want them either. Sold all my 100 oz bars a couple years ago. 90% and ASE's are much simpler and less likely to result in you
buying a bag or box of fakes. There's also the issue that the vast majority of buyers aren't looking to spend $2300 at a whack for silver (ie the price of a 100 oz bar).
And even if they do, a lot of them prefer monster boxes or 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, full bags of 90%. There's really not a huge difference in storage space needed plus you get
divisibility with the smaller items.
<< <i>Great report Chris. It was good talking to you at the show.
I did not hear the usual constant clanking sound of coin counters counting 90% silver on the bourse. I guess not much 90% was being sold to dealers.
I brought some common date MS/PR69 PCGS gold modern commemorative $5 to sell at the show. I sold all 7 coins for full melt to the first dealer I offered them to. I had some offers on a 1 ounce gold eagle from dealers between $30 - $50 over spot.
The Dalton show had a 1804 proof bust dollar and the 1913 proof liberty nickel on display. Both coins were raw and beautiful. >>
It was also nice to see and talk to you. I did see the 1804 proof bust and the 1913 proof liberty nickel on display. That was the first time that I have seen them on display. I ended up staying at the show for about 3 hours yesterday on the 2nd day of the show. I will always look forward to going to coin shows find what I am looking for. I like the challenge of the hunt for silver art bars.
<< <i>Thanks for the show report.
A dealer in my region that sends out a daily buy fax is currently paying 20X face for 90% silver. So I'm not surprised the ask prices are 21X and 22X.
There is little to be had out there. 100 oz bars don't appear to be as popular (80c to $1.20 + spot). I suspect a lot of that is due to buyers being a little leery
of buying a large, fake bar. I don't want them either. Sold all my 100 oz bars a couple years ago. 90% and ASE's are much simpler and less likely to result in you
buying a bag or box of fakes. There's also the issue that the vast majority of buyers aren't looking to spend $2300 at a whack for silver (ie the price of a 100 oz bar).
And even if they do, a lot of them prefer monster boxes or 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, full bags of 90%. >>
I agree with you on the 100-oz size bar because those 100-oz silver bars that I saw selling for $2490 each would have been snatched up immediately on the first day of the show. Those were the lowest premium .999 silver to be had at the show from what I saw. I saw them on the 1st day of the show and when I got there for the 2nd day of the show, they were still there. People do not want to take a chance on it. I think that I also saw a 100-oz APMEX bar at this show but I do not know if it was selling for the same $2490 price or not. I think that it was since it was at the same dealer table as the other 100-oz silver bars.