Fake fiat or fake gold?
KUCH
Posts: 1,186
"Times are a changing". I think someone once said those words. Well, today I found out that my cash transaction two days ago resulted in a transfer of 2 ea $100 fake bills. Synopsis below
On April 5 went to local bank (Indiana) and withdrew $3,000 cash (all hundreds) for trip.
Left town on April 11, cash in hand, went to Atlanta and Augusta (masters), spent a few of those hundreds, no problem.
Arrived in Tx last Monday, went to local furniture with spouse on Wednesday purchased furniture with cash, all $100 bills. Furniture delivered yesterday.
Today store calls and says 2 of the $100 bills are fake. Geez, they want another $200. Store owner has fake bills is out of town and they will file police report on Monday.
I call my bank back in Indiana and they say no way would the fake bills get past them. Bank says its not my obligation to give another $200. Well, I KNOW it wasn't me so it's either the bank or the furniture store.
I was ready to make it right, but now I think we're being shaken down by the store. Tomorrow, I'm going to go to the police station first and explain what happened.
Will keep u posted and now I'm going to become an expert on fiat and gold authenticity.
On April 5 went to local bank (Indiana) and withdrew $3,000 cash (all hundreds) for trip.
Left town on April 11, cash in hand, went to Atlanta and Augusta (masters), spent a few of those hundreds, no problem.
Arrived in Tx last Monday, went to local furniture with spouse on Wednesday purchased furniture with cash, all $100 bills. Furniture delivered yesterday.
Today store calls and says 2 of the $100 bills are fake. Geez, they want another $200. Store owner has fake bills is out of town and they will file police report on Monday.
I call my bank back in Indiana and they say no way would the fake bills get past them. Bank says its not my obligation to give another $200. Well, I KNOW it wasn't me so it's either the bank or the furniture store.
I was ready to make it right, but now I think we're being shaken down by the store. Tomorrow, I'm going to go to the police station first and explain what happened.
Will keep u posted and now I'm going to become an expert on fiat and gold authenticity.
0
Comments
Oh, and your homeowners would reimburse you most likely, give your agent a call.
bob
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Even if it isn't, if the store didn't identify them as fakes when the purchase was made, I would think they would have a difficult time proving that they came from you rather than from some other source. However, they could still cause a problem for you, especially if they have 'connections' with their local police department, and decide to issue some sort of summons, etc. that would then possibly show up when your name is run by law enforcement in other states. I'd hate to get stopped in a traffic violation in some state and then find out that my name is now listed as a counterfeiting suspect when they run their report.
Hope it just goes away and you do not have a problem result from this.
ones in the till.
bob
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A while a go, a bank hit me for deposited counterfeit bills that were accepted at the transaction and later challenged via USPS notification., I said "you accepted them at the time, further review on your part doesn't cut it", time to challenge authenticity is at time you take them over the counter. So I got credited $200 at the time.
Point is, if they are accepted your $$$ and you have a receipt, it's their problem, not yours.
<< <i>If you have a receipt, for the transaction, seems to me, no prob.
A while a go, a bank hit me for deposited counterfeit bills that were accepted at the transaction and later challenged via USPS notification., I said "you accepted them at the time, further review on your part doesn't cut it", time to challenge authenticity is at time you take them over the counter. So I got credited $200 at the time.
Point is, if they are accepted your $$$ and you have a receipt, it's their problem, not yours. >>
I wonder if they passed them on to KUCH rather than take the loss. Do you and KUCH use the same bank?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
well when you got a "counterfeit charge back claim" then that's not so convenient nor private is it?
at least the claim of "outside the system" kind of holds, so there is that. Counterparty!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Looking through them, I spotted a fake $100. Was printed on a washed-out $5, and you could see the Lincoln watermark, which I showed and explained to him. He said that he had just gotten it at his bank. I told him to stop there on his way home and tell them.
He went in and told them what happened and they said that they could not have given it to him, because their currency counter also detects counterfeits and it had said all the bills were good. The teller then said "Watch this" and ran the bill through their currency counter.
The counter declared the note genuine. He pointed out to them that the bill had to be false because of the Lincoln watermark, and they gave him a good one because obviopusly their machine was wrong.
Your bank's counter may have passed a fake to you, and you may have spent it in good faith, but here it gets murky. If you take the fake notes back to the bank (assuming the store returns them, which is doubtful) the bank can legitimately say that since the notes were out of your possession, you cannot say for sure that these are notes that the bank gave you.
I would say that the store is on the hook for the loss because they did not catch the counterfeits at the time you ALLEGEDLY presented them. Ask them for proof that these notes came from you. Ask them how many $100 bills they deposited that day.
Another thing, did their cashier use one of those marking pens when they took the bills in?
<< <i>Does Texas have an extradition treaty with Indiana? >>
First thing on the list tomorrow is to find out who is this store owner? We're in way south Tx, 50 miles from the border. Gotta know who you're dealing with, it just might be best to fork over the shake down.
I like the insurance idea better.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I've had people mumble "you don't trust me", I just say "I check all $100s, anyone can have a bad one".
<< <i>
<< <i>Does Texas have an extradition treaty with Indiana? >>
First thing on the list tomorrow is to find out who is this store owner? We're in way south Tx, 50 miles from the border. Gotta know who you're dealing with, it just might be best to fork over the shake down.
I like the insurance idea better.
I was being facetious. This wouldn't be a criminal case---rather it would be a civil case since it's unlikely they can prove you intentionally passed counterfeit bills assuming that they can even prove that the bills are counterfeit and that you were the one that passed them. That said, you may want to keep an eye on your credit rating at the three major credit rating companies.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Merchants taking cash as payment know they have to be careful.
1) this a shakedown, or
2) someone substituted a couple of fakes for your bills, and
3) did the store charge sales tax on the receipt?
<< <i>Stand firm. You got the bills from the bank and I assume the bank will verify this.
Merchants taking cash as payment know they have to be careful.
1) this a shakedown, or
2) someone substituted a couple of fakes for your bills, and
3) did the store charge sales tax on the receipt? >>
Yes, bank did confirm date I got the bills.
No one substituted any bills with me.
Receipt shows one total amount, not itemized. I would assume they charged tax.
Story to continue this afternoon.
amount of sales tax charged as a separate line item.
It is likely that the store did not pay sales tax on the sale.
They aren't going to go to far with this if the
shakedown attempt fails. An investigation of the
"fake" 100's might cause them problems with
state tax authorities.
<< <i>Counterfeit bills are a civil case? I must be behind the times and showing my age. I always thought the Feds would not hesitate to investigate counterfeits, but perhaps there are now so many instances that they no longer want to be bothered unless it is a major ring passing the bills. >>
An innocent dupe attempting to spend a counterfeit bill that he received in good faith (on his part) has never been a criminal case. He is the victim of one crime. The law enforcement agency would have to prove intent on his part to knowingly pass a counterfeit, which can be very difficult.
<< <i>Counterfeit bills are a civil case? I must be behind the times and showing my age. I always thought the Feds would not hesitate to investigate counterfeits, but perhaps there are now so many instances that they no longer want to be bothered unless it is a major ring passing the bills. >>
In this case the government wouldn't persue this as a criminal case because they couldn't prove that he knowingly passed counterfeit bills. Hence, the only way the store can get their money back is to sue in small claims court.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
prevail against the OP anyway in small claims court. How would they prove that
the OP was the one that gave them the bad bills?
The OP paid with cash and the cash was accepted in payment.
There are safeguards:
the watermark image of Franklin, the number 100 with color shifting ink, and
the vertical security thread.
The OP was lucky to get the furniture delivered. Very lucky.
Scam Scam Scam
Went into town yesterday and spoke to local B&M owner who was born and raised in this area. He says the store owners are "not in any cartel, drug related business." They're good people as far as he knows. He said many years ago he also received a bad bill from a bank.
Went into store and told salesperson to have owner call me when they get back into town. They return tomorrow, Monday. I hope they call first before filing a police report. I won't make good on the 2 $100 bills, feel very badly however not my doing.
With all evidence and assuming the owners are honest people, it's obvious to me the bills came from the bank. Bank just missed them.
If a police report is filed, I will go in tomorrow and also file a police report against bank? OPINIONS?
I don't expect the bank to make it good, AND tomorrow I will go buy a marker thingy and start checking bills, GEEZ!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
until the phone rings?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Update:
Went into town yesterday and spoke to local B&M owner who was born and raised in this area. He says the store owners are "not in any cartel, drug related business." They're good people as far as he knows. He said many years ago he also received a bad bill from a bank.
Went into store and told salesperson to have owner call me when they get back into town. They return tomorrow, Monday. I hope they call first before filing a police report. I won't make good on the 2 $100 bills, feel very badly however not my doing.
With all evidence and assuming the owners are honest people, it's obvious to me the bills came from the bank. Bank just missed them.
If a police report is filed, I will go in tomorrow and also file a police report against bank? OPINIONS?
I don't expect the bank to make it good, AND tomorrow I will go buy a marker thingy and start checking bills, GEEZ! >>
It was the store's responsibility to check the bills at the time of the sale; since they chose not to, or did and found them to be acceptable, it's no longer your problem. If the two hundreds are fake, it more likely an employee substituted fake ones for good ones, than the bank gave you fakes.
I don't think a marker would catch a fake $100 bill printed over a genuine $5 bill.
It would be a little extra trouble, but keeping track of the serial numbers of $100 bills received from a bank might prevent some problems later when you spend them.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i><< tomorrow I will go buy a marker thingy and start checking bills >>
I don't think a marker would catch a fake $100 bill printed over a genuine $5 bill.
It would be a little extra trouble, but keeping track of the serial numbers of $100 bills received from a bank might prevent some problems later when you spend them. >>
No way, anyone here checking serial numbers of hundreds? No time for that.
We'll see what tomorrow brings. Hopefully the owner will call and take the loss. Or, I'll spend sometime at police station (I will met him there) and lucky me, I may even talk to the Feds! What a way to spend a Monday.
changes colors, and the $100 security strip in the correct location.
If you are contacted by police, you gave the store $100 bills from the bank and
the store accepted them in payment. You would have no way to know
which bills you gave.