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What's the protocol on the BST?

PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
When someone runs a sell post on the BST and I buy their silver bar, the seller normally expects me to send payment before he ships the silver bar. What if I run a want to buy post on the BST? Should expect the seller to send me the bar before I send payment? Of course, in many cases it doesn't matter who goes first when the transaction is between two parties where there is trust based on several prior transactions.

Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

Comments

  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761
    As a seller, I usually ship when I have confirmation that the payment has been mailed if the other party is a known member of the forum.
    In my opinion the seller is the one who needs to get the money first. Though, you are making a valid point.
    I don't think there is an answer to your question, it depends on the parties involved.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What's the protocol on the BST? >>



    What the buyer and seller agree to with the standard being: "Buyer sends payment first, Seller receives cleared payment and then ships".

    Anything goes though; Trades usually involve both parties shipping at the same time from my experience. When neither party knows the other, a little due diligence is in order. References, forum record/background/etc.

    I have never had a BST go bad (ripped off).
  • UNLVinoUNLVino Posts: 416
    You forget the T in BST - Trade! What then?image

    Kidding I did a trade and sent my item once we agreed, took my chances and it all worked out fine. As a buyer, I always pay first. Worked out good for me thus far. Unlike EBay feedback though, I do admit I have only done transactions with members more established than I. I would hesitate to send payment to someone new to the boards. That pretty much sums up my contribution to this fine thread. image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No doubt that there is a lot of trust involved and that new low post count members are at a real disadvantage where the trust issue is involved. Let's face it---we are dealing with a relative stranger that we've never met. I many cases I've sent a four figure check to a members P. O. box several states away but in all cases they have high post counts and are regular participants here.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If YOU are offering to buy, then YOU should expect to have to send payment first.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Since learning that not all deals have gone well on BST type forums, I look for long-term reputation. Always considered the buyer pays first. I expect that for the most part things have gone well, and most of the deals go well and folks are happy.

    New sellers have a disadvantage and there is a reason why everyone has to build a reputation (on both sides). There's factors in the deal that either party not like as well.

    I should buy/sell more just to build my rep.
    COA
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    In my opinion the seller is the one who needs to get the money first.

    This

    We all had to start somewhere here (selling). The smart way to go about it is if that persons intention is to sell regularly, is to start offering lower valued items to build up some transactions and credibility.

    I feel, if a new selling member is asked to send the item first (not to another relatively new member, only to an established one because he's the one with references) then the new seller should. If that new seller refuses to do so, then I as the buyer have 2 choices. Move on or proceed at my own risk.

    I think the question really only applies to dealing with a newer member because as you suggested, 2 established members can work it out much more easily.

    As a guide, I started selling on another site and made myself well known who I was here. Many members here are there too. But because I was new there, on the new site, I had to go thru a hazing period and send items first until I built up some credibility, on that site.

    Since I'm on a kick...one additional thing there that CU does not have is a feedback system. I think adding something like that here would be a great tool and it would take this question out of play. A new member would have to send the item first.
    Also, the Mods are extremely more active there than here. Their presence, rather than lurking and just deleting people profiles over something silly, gives an assurance that I feel is not evident here. That would really help here. You may have transactions out there and suddenly all the info. is not retrievable? You could be left to hang out to dry here with no recourse and just because you said a bad word or voiced your opinion on something, you would then have no way to get in touch with the banned person, or vice versa, the person you're dealing with would have no way to contact you.
    This is why it's important to C&P your trading partners info. to Word once known. You could be the buyer from a seller that got banned here. What would you do then?

    Having a feedback system here would all but eliminate the doubt of dealing with someone and would help to lay the groundwork of what expectations are. Not..."you're on your own."
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,140 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In my opinion the seller is the one who needs to get the money first" >>



    I agree when someone is running a "I have a silver bar for sale" type post. What about a "I'm looking to buy a 5 oz silver bar" type thread? What if the "I want to buy post" is made by a coin dealer? What are the chances the dealer will pay for a coin before the seller sends him the coin?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    agree when someone is running a "I have a silver bar for sale" type post. What about a "I'm looking to buy a 5 oz silver bar" type thread? What if the "I want to buy post" is made by a coin dealer? What are the chances the dealer will pay for a coin before the seller sends him the coin?

    If I'm running a WTB thread and someone offers it to me, and very importantly they are an established member, it's simple, I pay first.
    Look at what I specifically say in this WTB thread of mine here
    "I prefer to only deal with established members here only on these please, Thanks."

    Why would it be different with a coin as long as detailed pictures have been provided? It's a transaction. One just happens to be for bullion one for a coin. I don't see the difference.

    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761


    << <i>

    << <i>In my opinion the seller is the one who needs to get the money first" >>



    I agree when someone is running a "I have a silver bar for sale" type post. What about a "I'm looking to buy a 5 oz silver bar" type thread? What if the "I want to buy post" is made by a coin dealer? What are the chances the dealer will pay for a coin before the seller sends him the coin? >>



    When I sold to dealers on the forum, since I haven't dealt with them first, I demanded to be paid first.
    You are asking to buy, it's not like somebody is looking to sell to you.
    To me it's always a matter of reputation of the members involved in the transaction.
    I would have no problem mailing YOU the bar and waiting for the payment.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have had many, many transactions here on the BST, all have been smooth. I would deal here before ebay.... Cheers, RickO
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    I have had many, many transactions here on the BST, all have been smooth. I would deal here before ebay.... Cheers, RickO

    image
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,140 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have had many, many transactions here on the BST, all have been smooth. I would deal here before ebay.... Cheers, RickO >>



    I've had many great transactions with many here and they've all been free of problems and drama free.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The BST board in this section of CU is probably the most uptight one, bottom line its simple when conducting bussiness.

    #1 The item gets paid for first then its shipped
    #2 Then decide which % your charging for paypal- either 2.9% or 3% For some reason this was invented over here and it cracks me up, OK sooooooo the item in question is say $115 who the F knows how much 2.9% is? LOL
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    As a guide, I started selling on another site and made myself well known who I was here. Many members here are there too. But because I was new there, on the new site, I had to go thru a hazing period and send items first until I built up some credibility, on that site.

    Since I'm on a kick...one additional thing there that CU does not have is a feedback system. I think adding something like that here would be a great tool and it would take this question out of play. A new member would have to send the item first.
    Also, the Mods are extremely more active there than here. Their presence, rather than lurking and just deleting people profiles over something silly, gives an assurance that I feel is not evident here. That would really help here. You may have transactions out there and suddenly all the info. is not retrievable? You could be left to hang out to dry here with no recourse and just because you said a bad word or voiced your opinion on something, you would then have no way to get in touch with the banned person, or vice versa, the person you're dealing with would have no way to contact you.
    This is why it's important to C&P your trading partners info. to Word once known. You could be the buyer from a seller that got banned here. What would you do then?

    Having a feedback system here would all but eliminate the doubt of dealing with someone and would help to lay the groundwork of what expectations are. Not..."you're on your own." >>



    great point u have here Rich...
    that site is far & above the best one to bst on, the feed back system is the utmost in integrity & honor and the abiity to easily see who did with who & also abilty to pm other members who dealt with them to get even more info...also u get a gist of some dollar volume on alot of the bst happenings...
    it weeds out people very fast, pretty much immediately, and also a built in protection since u bust 1 deal u r history even little deals...

    also there is nice pricing on many items, especially 90% junk & silver eagles amongst many other items,
    actually a significant difference in price...

    in fact this place, CU bst, is the only place i ever had a deal gone bad...
    and really dont have the confidence in dealing with those here than over yonder...
    the community is much stronger...also the community has done wonders in charitable work...and also spawned the silver art collectors site...
    keceph `anah
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    With all due respect, this discussion seems overly complicated. There's already a well-established precedent:

    • worldwide, whenever you buy from a B&M store, you have to pay before taking the merchandise
    • here on BST, you [should] pay before receiving the merchandise [in your mailbox]

    Before you say, "not fair comparison in the stores you can examine all you want before purchasing" here is my reply: Before you send payment on BST you can examine photographs all you want. If the photos are not satisfactory, demand better photos before you agree to buy. Asking about a return policy is wise, but sellers should not feel obligated to offer.

    I never, ever send payment before seeing high-quality photos of the coin (or PM, here).
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • joefrojoefro Posts: 1,872 ✭✭
    Nice post rawteam. How many PMs have you got asking what site you were referring to? image



    << <i>

    << <i>
    As a guide, I started selling on another site and made myself well known who I was here. Many members here are there too. But because I was new there, on the new site, I had to go thru a hazing period and send items first until I built up some credibility, on that site.

    Since I'm on a kick...one additional thing there that CU does not have is a feedback system. I think adding something like that here would be a great tool and it would take this question out of play. A new member would have to send the item first.
    Also, the Mods are extremely more active there than here. Their presence, rather than lurking and just deleting people profiles over something silly, gives an assurance that I feel is not evident here. That would really help here. You may have transactions out there and suddenly all the info. is not retrievable? You could be left to hang out to dry here with no recourse and just because you said a bad word or voiced your opinion on something, you would then have no way to get in touch with the banned person, or vice versa, the person you're dealing with would have no way to contact you.
    This is why it's important to C&P your trading partners info. to Word once known. You could be the buyer from a seller that got banned here. What would you do then?

    Having a feedback system here would all but eliminate the doubt of dealing with someone and would help to lay the groundwork of what expectations are. Not..."you're on your own." >>



    great point u have here Rich...
    that site is far & above the best one to bst on, the feed back system is the utmost in integrity & honor and the abiity to easily see who did with who & also abilty to pm other members who dealt with them to get even more info...also u get a gist of some dollar volume on alot of the bst happenings...
    it weeds out people very fast, pretty much immediately, and also a built in protection since u bust 1 deal u r history even little deals...

    also there is nice pricing on many items, especially 90% junk & silver eagles amongst many other items,
    actually a significant difference in price...

    in fact this place, CU bst, is the only place i ever had a deal gone bad...
    and really dont have the confidence in dealing with those here than over yonder...
    the community is much stronger...also the community has done wonders in charitable work...and also spawned the silver art collectors site... >>

    Lincoln Cent & Libertad Collector
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    PS: we already have a feedback system here, called "ratings" or "member rating" only problem is I don't think anyone knows how it's supposed to work. Case in point, I've noticed some extremely well-respected members have super-low ratings and tons of votes, and yet, other well-respected members have very high ratings (and many votes). When someone asks for my references I point to my eBay feedback score (100%).
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Nice post rawteam. How many PMs have you got asking what site you were referring to? image
    >>



    lol, none actually & really wouldnt expect few if any...
    this place is full of dinosaurs, alot of oldtime knowledge stuck in the past, set in there ways...
    but i do think that is because its more of a numi site...
    i have however learned some great info from many of them...

    also a quick point, i think Rich mentioned it, but the other site doesnt really care what "other" references u have,
    since they are meaningless...

    when/if u enter the real playing field... all enter naked & must take the time & effort to build & earn a reputation there, as there is only what counts...
    as it has really morphed into more than just a bst site, even though that is still the main thrust of site...
    keceph `anah
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    For the most part, I feel the same rawteam1. I am grateful for the knowledge and transactions that have been born out of simply just being here, not to mention what I feel are some friendships that have been gained, but I feel it lacks the assurance needed when doing larger deals due to not having that feedback system mentioned elsewhere. The Mod presence ats is what drives it imo.

    PS: we already have a feedback system here, called "ratings" or "member rating" only problem is I don't think anyone knows how it's supposed to work. Case in point, I've noticed some extremely well-respected members have super-low ratings and tons of votes, and yet, other well-respected members have very high ratings (and many votes).

    And what does that tell you? It tells me no one cares enough to take the time to explain it and how it's meant to work. Plus, not all members are willing to even turn that feature on because of the misinterpretation it can provide. It gives no assurance to a would-be buyer, or seller for that matter.

    All in all I still really enjoy being here, but as with just about anythng, it could be better.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>And what does that tell you? >>


    It tells me that adding a Feedback system would be a waste of time, because nobody would use it. We don't need it. Our posts and 'post counts' speak for themselves. Distinguishing authentic, trustworthy members from trolls and scammers is easy.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    It tells me that adding a Feedback system would be a waste of time, because nobody would use it. We don't need it. Our posts and 'post counts' speak for themselves. Distinguishing authentic, trustworthy members from trolls and scammers is easy.

    Did you think that thru before you posted it?

    So if someone has a high post count and has been doing FAKE transactions to make it appear that they are building cred, that would be better than being able to see REAL transactions that were actually done with other actual people, not fake accounts created by the same person?
    Sure, ask for references then, right? And when you do the person gives you the profiles of accounts that are THEIRS.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this Loch because I am on both sites, one that has a fb system and one that doesn't, and the difference and sense of security is sharply and honestly...obviously apparent.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It tells me that adding a Feedback system would be a waste of time, because nobody would use it. We don't need it. Our posts and 'post counts' speak for themselves. Distinguishing authentic, trustworthy members from trolls and scammers is easy.

    Did you think that thru before you posted it?

    So if someone has a high post count and has been doing FAKE transactions to make it appear that they are building cred, that would be better than being able to see REAL transactions that were actually done with other actual people, not fake accounts created by the same person?
    Sure, ask for references then, right? And when you do the person gives you the profiles of accounts that are THEIRS.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this Loch because I am on both sites, one that has a fb system and one that doesn't, and the difference and sense of security is sharply and honestly...obviously apparent. >>



    So does TOS have any liability to CYA if you get burned on a deal?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,764 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've had more that a hundred transactions on the BST, both as seller (mostly) and as buyer (not as often).

    Excellent deals and never, not once, have I had a problem with a forum member.

    However, one caveat, please send funds promptly if you are the buyer.

    Recently had a sale from the forum, but not a forum member (lurker). The deal did not go well.

    No harm no foul, just a big waste of time waiting for payment that was sent twice (but never received).

    I resold to another forum member and all went very smoothly with an immediate PP payment.

    Don't keep sellers waiting, please.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Did you think that thru before you posted it? >>


    Yes, of course. I never post thoughtless comments … if Feedback was needed here, people would take the time to clarify our current system and understand how it works. I'm glad you feel secure on TOS, but generating false feedback is easy. The expression "actions speak louder than words" is applicable; posts are your "actions" and Feedback is the "word" or hearsay.
    I respect your opinion, but no I don't ask for references on these boards because - as a regular user/poster - I already have a sense of our fellow regular users from reading their posts. When I enter into a BST, I already have a strong sense of with whom I'm dealing, and their reputation. Like in real life, reputation precedes the resumé and its references.
    Maybe it's because I have some people-reading ability. Maybe I don't believe someone would spend countless hours posting in BBC code, for months or years, just to swindle me in a $500 BST image
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also I see that NGC has a kudos form for one to post about their deals with other forum members. Does this obligate NGC in any way if a deal goes sour?
    theknowitalltroll;
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