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Fake Engelhard 10 ounce stamped bars - Updated

OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
They're supposedly being sold as a "novelty" by an ebay seller in Australia. Expect to see them in North America soon....unless they are here already.

Fake 10 oz Engelhard stamped bars

The text of the auction makes the real intent clear:


<< <i>These made great paper weights! I bought several from Malaysia (and I'm keeping most of them) but happy to let a few go.
They are the same size and weight as the real thing.
They don't attract a magnet as they are made of zinc (silver plated).
Great as a practical joke (or as a surprise present!) >>

Comments

  • CNoteCNote Posts: 2,070
    *sigh*
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    reported. "copyright infringement."

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is this crap not flat out banned from ebay? image
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>*sigh* >>



    Reported ... eBay, even in Australia, will nuke this auction...
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • mrpaseomrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
    Just when you think it's safe to buy... This is only going to get worse.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Same seller is also peddling fake stagecoach 1 oz silver bars. Also reported.

    more fakes
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Why is this crap not flat out banned from ebay?

    Because all they care about is "enhancing shareholder value" per their CEO.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>reported. "copyright infringement." >>




    Thanks derryb.

    Its sadly just a matter of time before they show up in North America without references to "fake" or "replica".
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭
    Reported also!
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They look quite good based on their pics unless they used a real bar for their pics. I guess it's time to buy an good scale.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    eBay nuked the 10 ozer....the 1 oz stagecoach bar is still available
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761


    << <i>I guess it's time to buy an good scale. >>



    It couldn't be enough, imo.

    It seems like it is getting bad for the bars business, lots of fake are coming out.
    Dimensions would help, is there any book/internet page that shows them?
    But what about the poured bars?
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The fakes are now being offered IMO by a US ebay seller.

    Judge for yourself.

    Fake Engelhard 10 oz Ebay Listing

    Check out this seller's ASEs. They don't look right.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
    I'd agree that they are probably fakes.

    The silver eagles this person is offering definitely look fake:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Silver-Dollar-Standing-Liberty-1-ounce-Fine-SIlver-999-NEW-Coin-/330903916711?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item4d0b6910a7
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • CNoteCNote Posts: 2,070
    I bet there's chocolate inside of those.
  • GROAN...this is getting nauseating!image
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761
    The Engelhard is well made but the missing serial number should raise the flag to the average collector.
    The ASE are clearly fake.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,209 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Those ASE's look like there should be chocolate inside them.



  • << <i>The Engelhard is well made but the missing serial number should raise the flag to the average collector.
    The ASE are clearly fake. >>



    I would imagine that the serial number is in fact there but the flash kind of wiped it out.

    Here is a very reputable dealer and as you can see the serial number on these particular bars are quite faint.

    image

    And for some reason I can not preview my posts. Just shows a blank page. Anyone know why?
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761


    << <i>

    And for some reason I can not preview my posts. Just shows a blank page. Anyone know why? >>



    The preview hasn't been working for a while (and probably will never work again until our host updates the software).
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    GROAN...this is getting nauseating!

    My God, how far will eBay let this stuff go? I am really starting to feel that some kind of certification is the next thing with bullion bars, even if it's just done from a photo by a TPG'er. You send a picture of the bar to them (typically this would work best with bars that have serial numbers) and they send you a cert form for that bar. the cert form would have some kind of hologram on it to diminish the possiblity of faking that.
    Maybe that wouldn't work and you'd have to send the bar in, but for a nominal fee and reasonable shipping, I would do it just to have the piece of mind and to be able to prove it when it came time to sell.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>GROAN...this is getting nauseating!

    My God, how far will eBay let this stuff go? I am really starting to feel that some kind of certification is the next thing with bullion bars, even if it's just done from a photo by a TPG'er. You send a picture of the bar to them (typically this would work best with bars that have serial numbers) and they send you a cert form for that bar. the cert form would have some kind of hologram on it to diminish the possiblity of faking that.
    Maybe that wouldn't work and you'd have to send the bar in, but for a nominal fee and reasonable shipping, I would do it just to have the piece of mind and to be able to prove it when it came time to sell. >>




    Our host might find a business in certifying the rarer poured bars. With the common stuff the costs involved could wipe out the small margins many dealers receive on bullion bars.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,011 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd agree that they are probably fakes.

    The silver eagles this person is offering definitely look fake:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-States-Silver-Dollar-Standing-Liberty-1-ounce-Fine-SIlver-999-NEW-Coin-/330903916711?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item4d0b6910a7 >>




    seller americanmetals2012 selling fake ASE. reported item.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>GROAN...this is getting nauseating!

    My God, how far will eBay let this stuff go? I am really starting to feel that some kind of certification is the next thing with bullion bars, even if it's just done from a photo by a TPG'er. You send a picture of the bar to them (typically this would work best with bars that have serial numbers) and they send you a cert form for that bar. the cert form would have some kind of hologram on it to diminish the possiblity of faking that.
    Maybe that wouldn't work and you'd have to send the bar in, but for a nominal fee and reasonable shipping, I would do it just to have the piece of mind and to be able to prove it when it came time to sell. >>



    To answer your question..."how far will eBay let this stuff go?" I suspect as long as they make money... I just received this email from eBay, after I informed a buyer that he purchased a fake bar:

    Hello xxxx
    Sending messages to other buyers to report that items are fake our counterfeit is against eBay policy.

    Your eBay account was recently involved in activity that violated the eBay Site Interference policy.

    ***About the eBay Site Interference Policy***
    Site interference is anything that interferes with eBay's operations. To review the requirements, please go to:

    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/everyone-interference.html

    We understand that you may have been unaware of this eBay policy, and we invite you to learn how to keep your experiences on eBay pleasant and successful. We appreciate your cooperation.

    Thanks,

    eBay

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    So it's against eBay policy to warn or help bring attention to something by sending anyone a message. I guess it's their way of saying let us handle it...but therein lays the problem
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So it's against eBay policy to warn or help bring attention to something by sending anyone a message. I guess it's their way of saying let us handle it...but therein lays the problem >>



    How true. This item was reported last Thursday and the auction ended on Monday. eBay still hasn't got around in reviewing it, but once they do, they normally nuke it, even after it has ended.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761
    So, all his auctions are still up and running.
    By the way, I noticed the W mint mark on his ASE's. Besides that they are poorly made, isn't that mint mark on the proof only?

    To report an auction, do you need to prove why you think the item is a fake?
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,787 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So, all his auctions are still up and running.
    By the way, I noticed the W mint mark on his ASE's. Besides that they are poorly made, isn't that mint mark on the proof only?

    To report an auction, do you need to prove why you think the item is a fake? >>


    No, if ebay tech is unable to determine, he/she will send it on to their coin advisory group who are more knowledgeable.
    W m/m also appears on the unc. collector version, however the mint did not strike any in 2009 or 2010.

    ebay's simple report form specifically for coins, enter up to 10 items numbers on one report

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,787 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So it's against eBay policy to warn or help bring attention to something by sending anyone a message. I guess it's their way of saying let us handle it...but therein lays the problem >>


    Ebay doesn't want you doing their job even if they aren't doing it. Best to report to ebay and keep reporting. The forum is a good place to bring it to the attention of others, the more reports the better. Save the link i posted in the previous post. It is simple to use, goes directly to the coin specialists, and allows you to report up to ten item numbers even if they are from different sellers. Great for reporting clad bullion not listed in the clad category.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>So it's against eBay policy to warn or help bring attention to something by sending anyone a message. I guess it's their way of saying let us handle it...but therein lays the problem >>


    Ebay doesn't want you doing their job even if they aren't doing it. Best to report to ebay and keep reporting. The forum is a good place to bring it to the attention of others, the more reports the better. Save the link i posted in the previous post. It is simple to use, goes directly to the coin specialists, and allows you to report up to ten item numbers even if they are from different sellers. Great for reporting clad bullion not listed in the clad category. >>



    In theory it works, but in reality, sometimes it takes up to 5 days for ccw to take action. It appears that they are grossly understaffed or overwhelmed with fakes and frauds in the coin, stamp & bullion area.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,787 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>So it's against eBay policy to warn or help bring attention to something by sending anyone a message. I guess it's their way of saying let us handle it...but therein lays the problem >>


    Ebay doesn't want you doing their job even if they aren't doing it. Best to report to ebay and keep reporting. The forum is a good place to bring it to the attention of others, the more reports the better. Save the link i posted in the previous post. It is simple to use, goes directly to the coin specialists, and allows you to report up to ten item numbers even if they are from different sellers. Great for reporting clad bullion not listed in the clad category. >>



    In theory it works, but in reality, sometimes it takes up to 5 days for ccw to take action. It appears that they are grossly understaffed or overwhelmed with fakes and frauds in the coin, stamp & bullion area. >>


    The link I provided in this thread (and not the report link under each listing) gets quicker response for me most of the time. I get the impression most of the takedowns occur in the evening.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The link I provided in this thread (and not the report link under each listing) gets quicker response for me most of the time. I get the impression most of the takedowns occur in the evening. >>



    That's the only way to communicate, the other method is an afford in futility. Seems to me, that Judith is the only one in that department.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761
    poof!
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>poof! >>



    about time...image
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The link I provided in this thread (and not the report link under each listing) gets quicker response for me most of the time. I get the impression most of the takedowns occur in the evening. >>



    That's the only way to communicate, the other method is an afford in futility. Seems to me, that Judith is the only one in that department. >>




    Thanks derryb and OPA. I saved the link for future fake outbreaks.
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