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A guy walks into a local coin store and says...
llafoe
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Customer: I have $400 in silver for sale, how much are you paying?
Dealer: $15.50 per dollar
Customer: A guy on Craigslist is offering $21.00 per dollar?
Dealer: Be careful! People on Craigslist are crooks!
Dealer: $15.50 per dollar
Customer: A guy on Craigslist is offering $21.00 per dollar?
Dealer: Be careful! People on Craigslist are crooks!
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>>Customer: I have $400 in silver for sale, how much are you paying?
Dealer: $15.50 per dollar
Customer: A guy on Craigslist is offering $21.00 per dollar?
Dealer: Be careful! People on Craigslist might kill you>>
Regardless of what you think of his (her?) offer, the fact remains that conducting transactions in the comfort of a safe B&M does offer some protection
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<< <i>Customer: I have $400 in silver for sale, how much are you paying?
Dealer: $15.50 per dollar
Customer: A guy on Craigslist is offering $21.00 per dollar?
Dealer: Be careful! People on Craigslist are crooks!
Yup. Your local dealer already demonstrated to you who the crook was.
It seems to make this leap we are missing a key component.....that being what this dealer in questions SELLS the same for......maybe he sells at 17x FV......Would that change things for you?
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<< <i>
<< <i>Customer: I have $400 in silver for sale, how much are you paying?
Dealer: $15.50 per dollar
Customer: A guy on Craigslist is offering $21.00 per dollar?
Dealer: Be careful! People on Craigslist are crooks!
Yup. Your local dealer already demonstrated to you who the crook was. >>
<< <i>>>Yup. Your local dealer already demonstrated to you who the crook was.>>
It seems to make this leap we are missing a key component.....that being what this dealer in questions SELLS the same for......maybe he sells at 17x FV......Would that change things for you? >>
He actually told the client he buys at $15.50 and wholesales the silver to dealers for $21.00. The guy on Craigslist must have been one of his wholesale dealers?
Perhaps you are right.....Now, if the Craigslist guy sells at 28x FV (with no overhead, I might add) then is he back to being the "bad guy" in this story and not the hero? I'm confused...
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<< <i>considering that coinflation says the spot rate is 18.72X, 15X is not terrible. Maybe with a nice smile, the guy could have got the dealer up to 16.5X, which considering the convenience is not bad. >>
You're reading the clad values.
I would be curious what the $400 in silver consisted of: junk silver or nice stuff. A shop near me offers 80% of melt on junk silver.
Shops make their money buying it right then selling it retail in the shop or at bid to other dealers at a show. A guy I know who operates a shop quickly weeds out the people walking in who he can't do business with profitably, especially when there is a lot of high customer traffic.
<< <i>>>He actually told the client he buys at $15.50 and wholesales the silver to dealers for $21.00. The guy on Craigslist must have been one of his wholesale dealers?>>
Perhaps you are right.....Now, if the Craigslist guy sells at 28x FV (with no overhead, I might add) then is he back to being the "bad guy" in this story and not the hero? I'm confused... >>
Current silver value is $20.46 for dimes, quarters and halves and $21.87 for dollars.
...and yes, you're confused.
Actually, I was the one who made the "confused" comment above (a different member misquoted from coinflation)
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<< <i>>>...and yes, you're confused>>
Actually, I was the one who made the "confused" comment above (a different member misquoted from coinflation) >>
Great, now I'M confused...
Granted, I doubt I would be selling via a Craig's List ad in a dark back alley but geez...any safe place would do.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
If anyone wants his contact info and is local PM me and I will get it to you. He does not buy over the phone or threw the mail. Face to face only.....
I had a bunch of star treck shields in silver that I got a long time ago. I could not sell them on ebay or in person. I took them to this guy and he bought them for his own collection for more then the melt. This is one of the only dealers I told my wife to take my items to in case of death and or emergency because I know he is fair. It ammazes me how much one dealer will rob you blind and another will treat you like you have been a customer of theres for years.
If you go to YP.com, it is a good starting indicator about your coin dealer. Many times correct, like the one near me, has 1 star and that is because you can't rate it lower. Now in MN, there is Yellow River Rare Coins, and almost a solid 5 stars. I have been there and they are great!
There is a common theme. Condescending attitudes and "YOUR NOT A MEMBER OF OUR County Club" types fair badly. You don't need to go to YP.com to find them either!!!!
<< <i>How dangerous is a Craig's List transaction if it's conducted at your bank or some other very public location? >>
I have never had any problems with it, but use common sense and take the "long way home" to avoid any unplanned visits later on.
Very worn culls are worth less, obviously.
I have bought and sold on Craigs including some silver last week. I did a $19,000 gold sale
at the buyers bank last year and got a cashier's check from him to me.
I have met other buyers and sellers in bank lobbies, at bookstores and at libraries.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
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I look at it this way.....there are bad sellers AND there are good sellers. Each case is one of its own.
Just like there are bad buyers (jerks and people trying to trick/ripoff sellers) and good buyers.
I wish people would stop lumping them together and trying to defend every seller's actions.
This thread appears to be about 1 seller and only 1 person, from what it seems, was there in person.....everyone else just wants to defend sellers or have fun in an attack/dogpile.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
And words of wisdom(?) from GBurger717: " It ammazes(sic) me how much one dealer will rob you blind and another will treat you like you have been a customer of theres for years." So in GBurger717's way of viewing dealers, every dealer should provide the exact same market (pay exactly the same for like kind) in order to be fair to him. Got it.
Edited for grammer. Um, grahmer. Wait, grammar...
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<< <i>Any entity can offer whatever price they feel suits the market they make whether as a seller or buyer. That is why it is called a free market. Anyone(sellers/buyers) and everyone(sellers/buyers) is/are FREE to make choices. The free market doesn't statically exist for the convenience of anyone. It exists dynamically when multiple parties choose to make a mutual agreement. >>
This is false and puerile. Silver is a commodity. Commodities have established market prices. Buyers seeking to purchase commodities for significantly below the established market price are engaging in predatory behavior, not free market competition.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any entity can offer whatever price they feel suits the market they make whether as a seller or buyer. That is why it is called a free market. Anyone(sellers/buyers) and everyone(sellers/buyers) is/are FREE to make choices. The free market doesn't statically exist for the convenience of anyone. It exists dynamically when multiple parties choose to make a mutual agreement. >>
This is false and puerile. Silver is a commodity. Commodities have established market prices. Buyers seeking to purchase commodities for significantly below the established market price are engaging in predatory behavior, not free market competition. >>
Established market prices are NOT regulated prices. I suppose you will tell me now that Government regulation should be in place for the protection of those who aren't smart enough or sensible enough to make their own choices about what someone else offers to buy a commodity for because only Government is wise enough to protect the people from themselves. The OP was labeling by inference that the dealer was a crook by default because of a hearsay claim by a customer who freely entered his establishment. Nice try.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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<< <i>
<< <i>How dangerous is a Craig's List transaction if it's conducted at your bank or some other very public location? >>
I have never had any problems with it, but use common sense and take the "long way home" to avoid any unplanned visits later on. >>
+1. I've made countless of CL transactions. Most of them happened at my dad's jewelry store, which is in a mall, and guarded with many cameras. I've also made them at a bank, police station, university building... anywhere that has an armed guard. Never had any problems. You'll find that most CL deals that end badly are poorly thought out-- the deal is set up to be at a house, at a restaurant, a parking lot... common sense goes a long way; too bad "common sense" has become an oxymoron these days
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<< <i>
<< <i>Any entity can offer whatever price they feel suits the market they make whether as a seller or buyer. That is why it is called a free market. Anyone(sellers/buyers) and everyone(sellers/buyers) is/are FREE to make choices. The free market doesn't statically exist for the convenience of anyone. It exists dynamically when multiple parties choose to make a mutual agreement. >>
This is false and puerile. Silver is a commodity. Commodities have established market prices. Buyers seeking to purchase commodities for significantly below the established market price are engaging in predatory behavior, not free market competition. >>
No, not really.
It's predatory behavior when the seller is actively lying to the seller, falsely telling he/she what the PM spot price is, or falsely telling them what their product is worth. It's one thing to say "Well, I pay $15/oz" and another thing to say "Your coin isn't worth more than $14."
The former is simply free market dynamic. "Hey, I'm willing to purchase your silver at $15/oz." What the real value of the silver is up to the seller (in this case, the customer) to know. No one likes having to sell their stuff to the dealer at a deep discount, but if they want the convenience of getting cash quickly on the spot, the dealer has overhead costs to fulfill that service. When a dealer says that he wants to buy at $15/oz, he's claiming his position on the supply and demand graph. And you know what? The owner of the silver doesn't have to sell it at $15/oz. He can go home and sit on it. This is basic econ 101.
By the way- commodities have established MARKET prices. MARKETS are comprised of people like the customer and seller. THEY form the prices- not the other way around. If holding a price of PM was to be constant, and any deviance would be considered "predatory behavior," then not only would the price of PM never change, but the government would be completely justified in keeping the PM prices constant via law. We all know how that turned out.
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<< <i>The OP was labeling by inference that the dealer was a crook by default because of a hearsay claim by a customer who freely entered his establishment. >>
Actually, as the OP, I can assure you I wasn't labeling the dealer a crook by inference. I found it a little manipulative for the dealer to tell his customer to be careful of people on Craigslist since they're all crooks. I truly don't believe the dealer to be a crook. He was honest in telling the customer that he turns around and sells the coins he pays them $15.50 for to a dealer(s) for $21.00. His honesty probably sealed the deal for the customer to sell his coins to the person on Craigslist for $21.00. The dealer was honest and I found his offer to be quite low... but the customer was smart enough not to throw-away $2,200 by selling his coins to the dealer.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Any entity can offer whatever price they feel suits the market they make whether as a seller or buyer. That is why it is called a free market. Anyone(sellers/buyers) and everyone(sellers/buyers) is/are FREE to make choices. The free market doesn't statically exist for the convenience of anyone. It exists dynamically when multiple parties choose to make a mutual agreement. >>
This is false and puerile. Silver is a commodity. Commodities have established market prices. Buyers seeking to purchase commodities for significantly below the established market price are engaging in predatory behavior, not free market competition. >>
Established market prices are NOT regulated prices. I suppose you will tell me now that Government regulation should be in place for the protection of those who aren't smart enough or sensible enough to make their own choices about what someone else offers to buy a commodity for because only Government is wise enough to protect the people from themselves. The OP was labeling by inference that the dealer was a crook by default because of a hearsay claim by a customer who freely entered his establishment. Nice try. >>
I don't know where you came up with the bizarre scope shift and straw man regarding regulation. That's usually the tactic of someone with an indefensible position.
The dealer mentioned by the OP is a crook, not in the sense that he has committed an actual crime, but in the sense that he is engaging in predatory behavior with respect to a commodity with an established market price. The dealer mentioned by the OP is not a market maker, otherwise he would be paying the market price, instead he is a lowballing parasite.
<< <i>When a dealer says that he wants to buy at $15/oz, he's claiming his position on the supply and demand graph. And you know what? The owner of the silver doesn't have to sell it at $15/oz. He can go home and sit on it. This is basic econ 101. >>
I don't think you paid attention in econ 101. There is an equilibrium price for commodities. Everyone selling commodities is considered to be a price taker, at the market price.
What you're describing is a market inefficiency, i.e., predatory behavior by the dealer in offering below the market price. This is not free market economics no matter how much you want to bluster about it.
The guy is trying to make 30-35% on his investment. That's not competitive, but "lowballing parasite" is too harsh.
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<< <i>How dangerous is a Craig's List transaction if it's conducted at your bank or some other very public location? >>
Do you want strangers in your town or a nearby town to know that you collect and/or buy coins? There is a risk of someone following you and robbing you. Even if they don't follow you immediately, what are the odds that you could run into each other on another day when you are not expecting to be followed and robbed? They are too high for me; no thanks. Place the coins on eBay and conduct the transactions by mail through a P.O. Box.
Yes, I have heard of many horror stories about craigslist, however most people are not crooks or murderers. Take a friend or two along and meet the guy somewhere where there is security to do the transaction.
The dealer who offers 15X for silver when he should be offering 20x or more does not really want to buy it, and most likely does not buy very much of it.
Bob
<< <i>"instead he is a lowballing parasite" It has already been clearly established that the dealer did not even make the purchase. So your claim is merely stereotypical discrimination. You haven't even offered a specific, concrete definition of what entity constitutes an established market price, other than implying that if it doesn't meet your standard then it must be wrong and criminal. What is your guideline? >>
There is a market price for silver set on commodity exchanges. We call it the spot price and typically reference it with respect to coins by referring to "melt value." Incidentally, the same exchanges establish market prices for numerous other commodities such as corn, wheat, cotton, pork bellies, etc.
You have a rather strange and nonlinear way of arguing. What is this stereotypical discrimination you speak of? Why is it relevant in evaluating the dealer's ethics that his lowball offer was not successful? An unsuccessful parasite is still a parasite.
The opinon is mutual. You continue to base your judgement on a standard that you choose to accept as Gospel. You seem to be in the minority here. You've ignored the counterpoint that this is a free republic in which people are free to make choices. You chose to describe the dealer as a predator. I would choose to describe a seller who accepted such an offer as a person of free will. Either way, each party has the FREEDOM to make choices. No one, not even he OP alleged that the dealer made any attempt to deceive or defraud. You just arbitrarily made that conclusion.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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<< <i>How dangerous is a Craig's List transaction if it's conducted at your bank or some other very public location? >>
Why would you even consider taking that kind of chance? For a couple bucks?
Coin's for sale/trade.
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<< <i>"You have a rather strange and nonlinear way of arguing."
The opinon is mutual. You continue to base your judgement on a standard that you choose to accept as Gospel. You seem to be in the minority here. You've ignored the counterpoint that this is a free republic in which people are free to make choices. You chose to describe the dealer as a predator. I would choose to describe a seller who accepted such an offer as a person of free will. Either way, each party has the FREEDOM to make choices. No one, not even he OP alleged that the dealer made any attempt to deceive or defraud. You just arbitrarily made that conclusion. >>
Once again, you set up a straw man and engaged in a scope shift, very poor logical reasoning. Please point out anywhere in this thread where I alleged deceit, fraud, or illegality.
My premise is simple and economically sound. There is a spot price for silver which by definition is the market price. Anyone offering significantly below the spot price, barring special circumstances such as high transportation costs or refining costs, is a parasite attempting to take advantage of market inefficiency. The inefficiency I refer to is a potential seller's ignorance of the spot price and/or how much silver is actually contained in his coins.
<< <i>What ShortgapBob stated. Too many of you are Koolaid drinkers who have no clue about market dynamics. Any entity can offer whatever price they feel suits the market they make whether as a seller or buyer. That is why it is called a free market. Anyone(sellers/buyers) and everyone(sellers/buyers) is/are FREE to make choices. The free market doesn't statically exist for the convenience of anyone. It exists dynamically when multiple parties choose to make a mutual agreement.
And words of wisdom(?) from GBurger717: " It ammazes(sic) me how much one dealer will rob you blind and another will treat you like you have been a customer of theres for years." So in GBurger717's way of viewing dealers, every dealer should provide the exact same market (pay exactly the same for like kind) in order to be fair to him. Got it.
Edited for grammer. Um, grahmer. Wait, grammar...
Don't fergit gramper!
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<< <i>The inadvertent humor in the OP is much better without all the detailed analysis. >>
Yes, it was a bit of irony, and amusing in an of itself.
Attempting to parse the definitions of words and the nuances of free market behavior belabors the point, but it sure is fun to mix it up once in a while, isn't it?
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<< <i>SO I guess when I bought a property a couple of years ago where the listed price was $300k and we agreed on $275k but the only thing was that it was listed as a triplex but was in fact 3 single family residences on two separate lots each worth $275k, so I effectively doubled my money the second escrow closes.
But many here believe the following:
that we should not operate in a free market
that I should always educate the seller
that everything that is being sold should be sold for the same price or within a certain price point parameter
that everything being sold is always the same thing and therefore the samething should be priced similarly all the time
that market price always equals the right price that is to be paid
that I ripped off the seller as opposed to getting a nice windfall due to my leg work and knowledge of the market
I believe that it is wrong to lie to a little ole lady who is relying on you for advice and you agree to give her your advice ie she comes to you for an appraisal of her goods, the moment you accept that responsibility then you are agreeing to act as her fiducuary and get her the most for her property/goods.
However that is far different than if a little ole lady is selling her property and is asking a certain price and you are a buyer who through your due diligence you the buyer who has no relationship to the seller learns that you can make money by buying her property. Would it make a difference if the seller was a young businessman? It shouldn't matter at all. It is all about your capacity, are you the agent for the seller or are you a disinterested third party. We are all free to sell what we want for how much we want, it is called a free market economy/system. >>
Real estate is not a commodity. The law considers all real estate to be unique. Silver is a commodity, and it has a market price. The distinction should not be difficult to understand.
<< <i>Sorry, failing to see a scam anywhere. Guy on CL is most probably trying to buy it at some price less than retail. The dealer could not pay his rent with that margin. >>
What do I care if the dealer can pay his rent or not? That has nothing to do with the market price of silver. The lowballing parasite can go out of business for all I care.