Is ebay making it more difficult to use PWCC and probstein ?

Exodus · March 21, 2013 7:00PM

Are the fees getting to the point where it is just smarter to use higher BIN's and wait for the sale instead of using auction style with these good sellers ?

bobbyw8469 · March 21, 2013 10:06PM

It will defintely makes sellers/consignors rethink about whether Ebay is the venue of choice for selling high dollar cards ($1,000+)....

illinifan912 · March 21, 2013 10:31PM

when are the increases supposed to take effect?

grote15 · March 21, 2013 10:36PM

It won't make any difference as payments are based on net amount after fees which are probably lower for consignors anyway.

What it will do is drive sales off ebay in general though and for high dollar items, AH will become much more appealing.

Jakt · March 22, 2013 12:27AM

<< It will defintely makes sellers/consignors rethink about whether Ebay is the venue of choice for selling high dollar cards ($1,000+).... >>

Where else can you get the kind of traffic that ebay offers?

mrmint23 · March 22, 2013 12:34AM

More reason to attend a local show or the National.

bobbyw8469 · March 22, 2013 12:34AM

<< Where else can you get the kind of traffic that ebay offers? >>

A Robert Edwards catalog auction would be as good, if not better than Ebay....

LeonLuckey · March 22, 2013 12:43AM

<< 

<< It will defintely makes sellers/consignors rethink about whether Ebay is the venue of choice for selling high dollar cards ($1,000+).... >>

Where else can you get the kind of traffic that ebay offers? >>

You can't get the traffic ebay has but you can get much, much better quality traffic by marketing to the core group of collectors in the hobby. Over time large mailing lists have a good chance of delivering better results than ebay. ...Ebay's recent pricing increases will be detrimental to their bottom line in our categories but I wonder if they care about card and memorabilia collectors? I have a feeling that after this is said and done, eventually they will need to go back to something more palatable.....Just one persons opinion..

On a related note I am getting more and more people inquiring about advertising, and I am sure PSA is too, and more talk of small auction possibilities than ever before.....from some very large ebay sellers who we all know of.

Baez578 · March 22, 2013 12:52AM

<< It won't make any difference as payments are based on net amount after fees which are probably lower for consignors anyway.

What it will do is drive sales off ebay in general though and for high dollar items, AH will become much more appealing. >>

Sorry...I'm new to all this.. What AH?

Jakt · March 22, 2013 12:53AM

<< A Robert Edwards catalog auction would be as good, if not better than Ebay.... >>

I'm not familiar with this. What price ranges does this focus on?

1966CUDA · March 22, 2013 1:07AM

<< Sorry...I'm new to all this.. What AH? >>

AH= Auction House

JoeBanzai · March 22, 2013 1:09AM

The AH's (auction houses) don't do business for free, and probably wouldn't be interested in 90% of the items listed on ebay. If you have a super high end item they may charge you less to sell the item. Also remember they have extra charges for the buyers as well, so you aren't getting the entire sale price.

Sell it yourself! It's not that hard and after a few auctions, it gets easier, and you get to keep ALL the money after ebay/paypal take their fees.

ebay is not as cheap or easy as it was, but it's still the best.

Joe

miwlvrn · March 22, 2013 1:13AM

I think ebay would make more profit for themselves if instead of raising any final value fees (or better yet, they could lower FVF), they just eliminated listing fees altogether, though still maintaining current quantity limits on multiple listings of identical items. By total sales volume, I suspect their profits would surely increase dramatically since a lot of items that otherwise wouldn't have been listed would now be up with a chance of sale. Downsides would include the shopper having to sift through a lot more items that weren't as matched up with what they were specifically looking for so they'd have to be better with search words usage, as well as I'm not sure how much of an extra effort it would be for them to handle millions more items than they currently do from a programming memory and server perspective. Listing fees are quite a deterrent since you could potentially risk hundreds of dollars and not sell any items. If someone were to go from putting up their 50 free items per month to listing 1,000 free ones instead, ebay gets more from the volume of sales FVF's and the seller makes that much more money for themselves. Since I personally do both buying and selling, I'd be up for no listing fees in exchange for having to sift through a bunch of garbage items when looking for the good ones, though I can definitely appreciate that a lot of people might disagree with that.

bobbyw8469 · March 22, 2013 1:14AM

<< I'm not familiar with this. What price ranges does this focus on? >>

Robert Edwards=REA. They are a premier auction house. They only run one auction a year, but this year will be the first year that they run two I believe.

70ToppsFanatic · March 22, 2013 1:17AM

<< 

<< A Robert Edwards catalog auction would be as good, if not better than Ebay.... >>

I'm not familiar with this. What price ranges does this focus on? >>

REA (Robert Edwards Auctions) is a premier auction house that runs a single auction each year (usually in the spring). Their offerings are
very diverse (all eras) and their price ranges can start as low as the $100 range and get into the tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands.
I would guess that their sweet spot is probably in the $600-$200 range for most of their lots, but that is just a gut feel. I have not looked at their
past results to verify it.

I always look forward to their auction

grote15 · March 22, 2013 1:36AM

Many AH offer no fee consignments on higher end items and basically make their money off the BP.

addicted2ebay · March 22, 2013 1:48AM

I would expect that there consignment rates will jump 100%-300%. This going to be a disaster for them and us. I will have to go to eBay rehab.

scotgreb · March 22, 2013 2:09AM

IMO this is a clear (relative) win for auction houses as their fees have become more competitive.

It will also hopefully open the door for a legitimate competitor to ebay with respect to our hobby.

On balance, I'm a fan of ebay but competition is always good and a niche sports card platform (that could attain some scale) would be great.

Scott

LeonLuckey · March 22, 2013 3:00AM

There are many auction houses that offer 0% sellers fees and 15% or less buyers premiums. Those same auction houses take items anywhere from $25-$100 and up.....Some of the larger auction houses want higher minimums for their lots but they are in the minority. You will see more auction houses springing up soon. I predict, and could easily be wrong, that ebay could see their profits decline and change back to being more competitive. I hope that is the case. I still shop on ebay a lot. I just don't sell there very much. (for transparency sake I am part owner of a small auction house)

Exodus · March 22, 2013 3:48AM

Thanks for all the input.

I am going to have to sit down with my thoughts and decide if PWCC and probstein are worth it anymore for selling.

They'll be just fine for buying, but I'm not sure about selling.

mrmint23 · March 22, 2013 4:12AM

Leon runs a very good auction but mostly prewar. Also check with Lee at Sterling Auctions

Probstein123 · March 22, 2013 4:31AM

I'm still in discussions with ebay but I am strongly considering starting my own auction site in addition to ebay for higher end items.
I'm getting ready !!

LeonLuckey · March 22, 2013 4:48AM

<< I'm still in discussions with ebay but I am strongly considering starting my own auction site in addition to ebay for higher end items.
I'm getting ready !! >>

You are a good seller Rick and would do well in that space. I think what is going to happen is larger sellers will still do ebay (as you said) but also do their own auctions. The barriers of entry are low. If you need any questions answered you know how to get a hold of me. I have been helping run our little auction for about 5 yrs now. I also interact with at least 30 auction houses regularly discussing business plans.

And thanks for the kind words about our little auction house, mrmint123. I won't ever talk too much about it or the other board I am on. I think it would be disrespectful to Joe O and PSA and that is not what I come here for. This is their board and I come here to help collectors....and I like Joe O. I think he is a great hobbyist and great for the hobby. BTW, our last auction did have a fair amount of post war stuff but mainly regional 50s-70s.....We really don't do much of the post 1970s stuff. All collecting is good though!!

MiniDuff · March 22, 2013 4:52AM

I feel extremely strongly about this and have voiced my opinion to ebay as a store owner, powerseller, seller since 1998 AND stockholder.

This increase crosses a line, period. I do not care what kind of traffic ebay has. By making it a flat 12% (including paypal) on everything, they are simply asking to become a flea market and nothing more. The margin between their % and an AH for any kind of better item is likely less than the premium you would gain at a good AH. So feel free to use a flea market model and sell lots and lots of cheap commodity items, but the time has come to find a better avenue for better items.

I'd be willing to bet that both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform and at this point would strongly encourage them to consider it.

Probstein123 · March 22, 2013 5:10AM

both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform
==> yes, we're getting ready , and when we do launch, we will continue to 1) post faster than everyone 2) pay consignors faster than everyone 3) receive great prices and 4) and most importantly, my consignment rates
will be the best in the business...
game on....

Exodus · March 22, 2013 6:50AM

<< both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform
==> yes, we're getting ready , and when we do launch, we will continue to 1) post faster than everyone 2) pay consignors faster than everyone 3) receive great prices and 4) and most importantly, my consignment rates
will be the best in the business...
game on.... >>

east coast vs. west coast

got t' love it.

aconte · March 22, 2013 8:07AM

<< 

<< both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform
==> yes, we're getting ready , and when we do launch, we will continue to 1) post faster than everyone 2) pay consignors faster than everyone 3) receive great prices and 4) and most importantly, my consignment rates
will be the best in the business...
game on.... >>

east coast vs. west coast

got t' love it. >>

maybe east coast + west coast.

aconte

CardboardClassicsLLC · March 22, 2013 10:00AM

I sell a decent amount on ebay (not nearly as much as Rick or PWCC) but this increase crossed the line and I will probably not sell high $ items on eBay anymore. This basically killed their high end sports cards auctions and their final value fees will suffer significantly.

ShreveBo · March 23, 2013 12:21AM

Irony is ironic Leon......you've run a message board where people have taken shots at PSA & auction houses for years. Now that you have an auction house, it's all good. Funny.

Dpeck100 · March 23, 2013 12:36AM

Can someone please post the link that describes the fee increases being discussed? Thank you.

PSUguy · March 23, 2013 12:36AM

I agree with you 100%. BTW, I bought the Paterno RC SGC 80 from you last week. LMK should any more of then fall into your hands.

Maurice · March 23, 2013 12:45AM

<< Can someone please post the link that describes the fee increases being discussed? Thank you. >>

Current fees:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

http://ebay.com/help/sell/storefees.html

New fees as of May 1, 2013:

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2013/springfeesimplification.html

Dpeck100 · March 23, 2013 12:48AM

Maurice thank you. I read through this last night and couldn't figure out how it kills high end collectibles on EBAY. Judging by the responses there is obviously an issue.

On a $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000 card sale how much do the fees go up?

Maurice · March 23, 2013 1:15AM

<< On a $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000 card sale how much do the fees go up? >>

Current fees for a $1,000.00 card:

Auction format - Store subscriber - $41.75 (7.5% up to $50.00, then 4% from $50.01 to $1,000.00)
Auction format - Non-Store subscriber - $90.00 (9%)
Fixed Price format - $62.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00)

New fees for a $1,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $90.00 (9%)
Non-Store subscriber - $100.00 (10%)

Current fees for a $5,000.00 card:

Auction format - Store subscriber - $121.75 (7.5% up to $50.00, then 4% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)
Auction format - Non-Store subscriber - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Fixed Price format - $142.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)

New fees for a $5,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Non-Store subscriber - $250.00 (10% but capped at $250.00)

Current fees for a $10,000.00 card:

Auction format - Store subscriber - $221.75 (7.5% up to $50.00, then 4% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)
Auction format - Non-Store subscriber - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Fixed Price format - $242.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)

New fees for a $10,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Non-Store subscriber - $250.00 (10% but capped at $250.00)

Dpeck100 · March 23, 2013 1:22AM

Maurice thank you very much for the explanation. WOW.

hhmag70 · March 23, 2013 1:31AM

<< 

<< both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform
==> yes, we're getting ready , and when we do launch, we will continue to 1) post faster than everyone 2) pay consignors faster than everyone 3) receive great prices and 4) and most importantly, my consignment rates
will be the best in the business...
game on.... >>

Rick, if you do start your own auction site, what will you do to try to prevent shilling? >>

Keep on keeping on.

illinifan912 · March 23, 2013 1:55AM

<< 

<< On a $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000 card sale how much do the fees go up? >>

Current fees for a $1,000.00 card:

Auction format - $90.00 (9%)
Fixed Price format - $62.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00)

New fees for a $1,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $90.00 (9%)
Non-Store subscriber - $100.00 (10%)

Current fees for a $5,000.00 card:

Auction format - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Fixed Price format - $142.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)

New fees for a $5,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $450.00 (9%)
Non-Store subscriber - $500.00 (10%)

Current fees for a $10,000.00 card:

Auction format - $250.00 (9% but capped at $250.00)
Fixed Price format - $242.50 (11% up to $50.00, then 6% from $50.01 to $1,000.00, then 2% for above $1,000.00)

New fees for a $10,000.00 card:

Auction or Fixed Price
Store subscriber - $900.00 (9%)
Non-Store subscriber - $1,000.00 (10%) >>

also thanks for the post, so it really effects cards over 5k but not so much 1k and lower. BTW how many actual 10k+ cards are actually sold and paid for??

zurbs17 · March 23, 2013 2:07AM

Is the maximum sell fee not still $250 or am I reading this wrong?

Link

eyebone · March 23, 2013 2:13AM

wow. those are significant hikes for more expensive cards, aren't they.

eyebone

Maurice · March 23, 2013 2:17AM

My post on the previous page had incorrect information and has now been edited to show accurate figures.

illinifan912 may want to edit his post to remove my erroneous post that he quoted.

Sorry for the confusion.

vladguerrero · March 23, 2013 2:24AM

<< 

<< both PWCC and Rick both have enough data between their consignors and buyers to support a pretty significant market unto itself on a new platform
==> yes, we're getting ready , and when we do launch, we will continue to 1) post faster than everyone 2) pay consignors faster than everyone 3) receive great prices and 4) and most importantly, my consignment rates
will be the best in the business...
game on.... >>

east coast vs. west coast

got t' love it. >>

An East Coast - West Coast beef makes me panic. I love both sides so I'm straight schizophrenic.

Dpeck100 · March 23, 2013 2:30AM

So now that the fees have been clarified I am not understanding how this hurts the high end of the market. It seems the damage is in the under $10,000 threshold. Even then it is not too severe if I am reading it right.

To me a fee of $250 to sell a $15,000 card for example is a bargain. Good luck finding someone who lives in your town in most cases to take it off your hands.

I do not sell much but I have sold to collectors in Japan, Australia, Canada, and all over the US. To me the ability for people from all over the world to see and pursue your merchandise is worth the fees.

Maurice · March 23, 2013 3:03AM

.

Maurice · March 23, 2013 3:27AM

.

zurbs17 · March 23, 2013 3:30AM

I too was puzzled by Probstein "being in discussion" with ebay. Then again I still haven't figured out why he won't let me bid on his auctions despite having a US mailing address.

Maurice · March 23, 2013 4:00AM

.

zurbs17 · March 23, 2013 4:18AM

So was Probstein in discussion with ebay demanding that his rates not be lowered?

prthd · March 23, 2013 4:31AM

<< So was Probstein in discussion with ebay demanding that his rates not be lowered? >>

I think alot of you are being juvenile. Probstein is probably one of the top 15 sellers (volume wise) on ebay, if I were him I too would be in contact with ebay. He is a consigner, people send him items to sell because they dont want to deal with the hassle, dont have the time or whatever their reason is. If he is in contact with ebay its for his consigners benefit, to save them money and get the most for their items. Why is that so hard to see. Does Rick benefit from higher fees, no.

MiniDuff · March 23, 2013 4:36AM

Keeping it very simple, instead of exotic:

A $200 card that now costs $9.75 will cost $18.00. That is a staggering increase for a relatively common and modest auction.

prthd · March 23, 2013 4:44AM

<< Keeping it very simple, instead of exotic:

A $200 card that now costs $9.75 will cost $18.00. That is a staggering increase for a relatively common and modest auction. >>

Yup, and the way I look at it, Rick is trying to help out his consigners nothing more.

bobbyw8469 · March 23, 2013 6:54AM

<< A $200 card that now costs $9.75 will cost $18.00. That is a staggering increase for a relatively common and modest auction. >>

Yup. I think Ebay really and truly shot themselves in the foot this time. I know it has been said before, and Ebay had definitely heard it before, but I think this will be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and drives all high end items away from Ebay. Ebay believes that the sellers are truly always going to be there and they can continue to do what they want to every year in regards to the fees. Only a major mass exodus from the site and a major downturn in income will make them think otherwise.

Is ebay making it more difficult to use PWCC and probstein ?

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