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Question about 1805/6 Draped Bust Quarter Beach Recovery

Hi, I signed up just to ask those who know.

I am a new metal-detectorist and recovered an 1805/6 Draped Bust Quarter. It is a very dark gray...almost black. But it does have decent detail...like I know what that would be.

Do you all think it I should leave it as is or try to clean it?

I have a very short slide show on YT for those that might like to see it: http://youtu.be/-ju6OSjBHAA

Moderators if links are not allowed please remove them with my apologies.

Thank You,
Bob

Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FIRST

    DO NOT CLEAN IT!!!!! If you do you will destroy much of the value that it might have.

    Second, the only way we can tell you anything is through a pictures. Hosting sites like Photobucket can help you there.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    Just a minor correction - it is called an "1806/5" Bust Quarter, not "1805/6"
  • Thank you for the reply.

    If the slideshow is inadequate I will post some photos in the future.

    I won't touch the coin in the mean time.

    And 1806/5...noted. Thank you.

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a screenshot I took from the video with the coin pictured:

    image
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  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    congrats on your find! I am glad to hear your are taking sage advice and conserving the piece by not performing any cleaning.
  • Thank you for posting the screen capture. Does it show enough detail for you all? I can try to take better still photos.



    << <i>Here's a screenshot I took from the video with the coin pictured:

    image >>

  • Thank you...my first silver coin detecting. Too bad it doesn't look silver;-)





    << <i>congrats on your find! I am glad to hear your are taking sage advice and conserving the piece by not performing any cleaning. >>

  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do not clean it. The coin already has enough surface roughness that cleaning won't help the value. In addition, cleaning will surely impart an unnatural appearance that will further diminish the value and desirability. I have cleaned enough metal detector finds in my life to say that you'll be sorry if you try to improve this one. Great find, by the way!

  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image

    Awesome find!
    Becky
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    wow, neat neat detector find!... and on a beach no less?

    Looks VF maybe EF details, severely corroded (environmental damage) but still worth, what, a Very Good price? Call it $500 or so, but probably more than that in sentimental value.

    That coin was nice nice nice when it was lost (provided is authentic... there is a small chance it's a cast counterfeit I guess)

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If found on the seashore, I'd wager that the coin was new when it was lost. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • Thank you all for your thoughts and kind words.

    I really do not deserve a find like this. I've only been detecting 6 weeks now.

    The beach has been good to me this past week. I also recovered a large cent and a George III (halfpence?). I thought they were tokens of some kind and I did clean those. They were both completely green and encrusted and also pretty worn, but they were my oldest coins prior to this quarter.

    I'm not a collector..should I try listing it here or on Ebay?
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,804 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As one digger to another, I must say, wow! Congratulations!

    Or, as we say on this site, "you suck!" (That's a high compliment here, meaning, "you suck because you make me jealous".)

    image

    Be sure to visit us over on the MD forum here.

    As to the coin, I suspect that any conservation efforts would only make it look worse. Keep it as it is and enjoy it for what it is- a really neat relic.

    NGC, our sponsor's competitor, has a conservation service called NCS, which did a lot of the major shipwreck finds made by the Odyssey group, so they've got the experience to conserve sea-salvaged coins, but that being said, I still don't think anything they could do to it would make it look better. As it is, with that sort of sea-salvage "patina" on it, it's not unappealing as a relic, and I think that's about as good as it is likely to get.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    we-he-he-he-he-ll-ll-ll-ll-o-o-o-o-o

    re-he-he-he-he-he-ea-ea-ea-ll-ll-y nice to have you on board image
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Yes, leave it the way it is. Great find, I collect that series of coins and would fall over if I found what you did, congrats!

    If I was you I would keep it. You aren't likely to find another one...EVER!!!
  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    Welcome to CU Message boards

    I agree with others....Do not clean.

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  • goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    Very cool!
  • PreTurbPreTurb Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    how to preserve best at this point? rinse in hot water and air dry? then put in flip?

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,804 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I suppose some good soaking in hot water and some way of ensuring that there's no active salt on there to cause future issues might be in order. THAT would be a good topic for advice, here.

    I've not done much beach hunting, personally, and my only two noteworthy beach finds were gold rings, so I haven't encountered this particular conservation issue with my dug stuff. I have yet to find any old coins on the beach and tend to prefer inland relic hunting places like old plantaition sites for the older material.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow great find and welcome to the boards!!! It appears to be copper--is just a bad picture?image

    Bob
    image
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FYI, very few of the truly desirable silver coins of that era
    still have a silver look. After 200+ years they mostly aquire
    some sort of patina...the silvery colored ones have most likely been
    messed with some how.
  • Thanks for all the additional welcomes, congratulations and opinions on how best to preserve the coin. It's good to suck;-)

    The color in the video/screen capture is off a bit...the coin really a very dark gray in person. The details are crisper in person as well. The stars on the right side of the obverse look like they could cut they're so sharp.

    The coin sings like a silver when dropped (gently). Also, any copper I recover from the beach is green in color if it has been there long enough. I do find lots of pennies new and old on the beach. The older pennies hold up best...the zinc pennies dissolve over time. There's plenty of copper sheathing on the beach from old boats as well.

    To me the coin is just an old coin. Do you think I should submit it for grading given its condition and the history of its time under the sand? Would any collector seriously consider a coin like this?

    Thanks again for all the responses.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,804 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your tidal fluctuations must not add or remove a whole lot of sand over time, where you are.

    Here on our SE Georgia (St. Simons Island) local beaches, they've lost so much beach due to erosion that they've "nourished" the beaches with new sand in some places. That, and a few hurricanes over the centuries, and who knows where our old stuff is; be it out to sea or way too deep to find. I've never tried hunting after a storm. The Florida folks have that down to a science on the shipwreck beaches. Like I said, I've never found anything old on our beaches, but a friend of mine said he once found a Spanish cob. Certainly stuff like that has been found on inland sites here, as our history goes back to at least the 1500s, as far as white folks are concerned.

    Your coin is an amazing relic, and that's where its value lies. Keep it as it is, with the provenance intact, because its STORY is what will give it the most value. It retains a tiny bit of numismatic value as a coin, perhaps, but "mainstream" collectors would be frightened off by the extreme environmental damage, so I would not recommend wasting any money on trying to slab it, unless you'd just like it in a PCGS "Genuine" holder or an NGC/NCS details holder. No amount of tinkering will ever undo what time and Mother Nature did to it, but there is no reason to let that get you down.

    I look at it as a relic piece, and a great one at that. Other folks will also see it this way. Sometimes the relic-versus-numismatic philosophies disconnect widely. I walk in both worlds. Some of my favorite detector-found coins are stuff I wouldn't look twice at if it were in a dealer's case, but the fact that I was the one who found the coin and was the first person to see and hold it in a century or more... well, that's a kind of magic that only we treasure hunters can experience. It's the next best thing to time travel, in my opinion.

    So keep it as-is, I say. Don't do anything more to it except make sure the salt is neutralized and it will be stable for longterm storage in the dry air environment. As far as I know, with that kind of "skin" on it, it could already be stabilized and you might not have to worry about it any further.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Thank you Lordmarcovan. It will put the coin away for safe keeping. I rinsed it off with fresh water as soon as I brought it home from the beach. I'll get something to protect and display it from the local coin shop.

    Our beaches are dynamic...the sand is always shifting and beach replenishments happen every few years. It all depends on how much the Nor'easters have taken away.

    One very different storm was last year's Sandy. It actually put sand ...lots of sand...up onto the beach. I have found lead fishing weights with fishing rigs still attached well away from the water. It was upon finding them where they should not have been found that has me detecting away from the wet sand where most look. Last week we did have a NE'ster go buy and it removed a few feet of sand so the entire topography of the beach has changed again. I think that last storm made it possible for me to find the Large Cent, George III and the Draped Bust coins.

    If you enjoy beach detecting try to get out after a good storm. You never know what may wash up or be uncovered. Or, maybe just enough sand has been removed so that you will be able to detect what was not possible before. I have recovered 2 partial square, bronze ships nails this week...hoping for a fully intact version.

    The relics are special.


  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thank you all for your thoughts and kind words.

    I really do not deserve a find like this. I've only been detecting 6 weeks now.

    The beach has been good to me this past week. I also recovered a large cent and a George III (halfpence?). I thought they were tokens of some kind and I did clean those . They were both completely green and encrusted and also pretty worn, but they were my oldest coins prior to this quarter.

    I'm not a collector..should I try listing it here or on Ebay? >>



    Oooops, hope not abrasively with a brillo pad or wire brush. There are conservation methods for recovered copper that has a better chance of an attractive (and more valuable) outcome, starting with soaks in various oils, gentle prodding with toothpics, rose thorns, and cotton swabs, certain other chemicals, and also electrolysis (hooking the coin up to a battery or transformed (low amp) AC current in buffered water) although that last will remove crud and sharpen the details of a dug or sea salvaged copper, you have to be careful because it will also eventually dissolve the coin completely

    if you get a chance, we'd probably be interested in seeing before and after pictures of those coppers

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Baley,

    Here are the copper coins after cleaning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGuSL6w8M1M&amp;feature=share&amp;list=UUhPj8sl00QD5WGlLUk0qJ_Q

    If I told you how I cleaned them I might actually hear some of your (you coin collectors) jaws hit the floor. No mechanical abrasives were used. I did not use electrolysis, either.

    I cleaned them like I would a crusty propeller, shaft or rudder of a boat. I used acid....a very short bath.

    Take mercy on my soul....I had no idea what they were and I certainly did not believe that I would find coins that old on the beach. The video of their recovery is on my You Tube channel.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AARGH !!!!!!image NEVER use acid on coins. The natural color is taken away. They are of almost no value now. The British coin is a contemporary counterfeit and did have some value-now it may be worthless. The contemporary counterfeits of this era looked worn even if they were just struck.

    If you want to sell the 1806/5 quarter -YES get it slabbed- even a genuine holder is better than none for such a coin. Why don't you get an opinion from your local coin shop?-maybe they will give you an offer or get it slabbed for you.
    image

  • Believe me...had I thought they were actual coins I would have never used acid.

    I'm not a coin collector and have never handled a Large Cent or a George III. The George was so thin and the Cent was so light for its size. I really thought they were tokens if anything. And they were both completely encrusted in a hard, rough, sand and green substance that made identifying them impossible to me. Live an learn.

    I promise to be more careful in the future.

    Thanks for your thoughts. I'll stop by a coin shop.









    << <i>AARGH !!!!!!image NEVER use acid on coins. The natural color is taken away. They are of almost no value now. The British coin is a contemporary counterfeit and did have some value-now it may be worthless. The contemporary counterfeits of this era looked worn even if they were just struck.

    If you want to sell the 1806/5 quarter -YES get it slabbed- even a genuine holder is better than none for such a coin. Why don't you get an opinion from your local coin shop?-maybe they will give you an offer or get it slabbed for you. >>

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a coin very similar to the one you found, this may be instructive if you ever go to sell yours:

    eBay auction for corroded 1806/5 quarter


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what a neat find, and on the beach.. I have never found a US Minted silver coin that old before, much less at the beach. Some earlier large cents and colonials, but silver federal issues. Earliest I recall is an 1840 seated dime once.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,180 ✭✭✭✭✭
    welcome to the forums
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With that coin being worth on the order of hundreds of dollars, you probably should have it slabbed. This will provide authentication, which will make it easier to sell in the mainstream coin market, and also insulate you from people trying to rip you (or an heir) off telling you it's fake.

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