FAKE RCM 1 oz gold bars * Update: Canadian man apprehended *

Pokermandude

Tonight I met with a gentleman who was attempting to sell four 1 oz mint sealed with assay card Royal Canadian Mint bars. I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. He claimed to be from Calgary, Alberta. The man I met with said he was selling the bars for his brother. My conversation with him and his reaction to being told the bars were fake seemed legitimate as if he believed that they were authentic.

Total weight of the bar and packaging was 39.9 grams. I ended up cutting open the packaging to weight the bar before buying them. The bar itself had correct dimensions, but weighed only 22 grams.

The "RCM assay certificate" and logo was all one large hologram, but it looked off and didn't appear to be RCM quality.

Be careful out there!

Picture of fake bar

CaptHenway

Wow! Well played!

mkman123

glad you weighed them!!

Pokermandude

Indeed. I may be young (for the PM/coin crowd anyway), but to quote a popular TV show character "old [Matt] didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday!"

CaptHenway

That's quite a bit of weight in the packaging. Did the hologram look like it was backed with anything to give it heft?

Pokermandude

I didn't look too close at the back of the hologram, but it didn't appear to be weighted or overly thick.

Mostly the plastic (mylar I believe, I was able to puncture and tear it with a key) pouch was just very large and thick. Even the hard plastic case that the bar was in was quite thick.

LochNESS

So, the forger's plan is to deceive our scales with heavy packaging? Was there any gold in the bar at all?

Does anyone know how much the packaging should weigh? Often with bars and rounds we are aware of their weights, but I don't think I have any records of the packaging weights. How much should RCM bars weigh when they are still sealed?

sebrown

One has to be careful these days. Congrats that you weren't a victim.

PerryHall

I'm suspicious when they hide the serial numbers in their pic. I'm surprised the weight is so far off since people buying bars like this usually weigh them. Using a denser metal and perhaps making the bar slightly thicker would have made this bar a little easier to pass as being authentic.

CaptHenway

<< <i>I didn't look too close at the back of the hologram, but it didn't appear to be weighted or overly thick.

Mostly the plastic (mylar I believe, I was able to puncture and tear it with a key) pouch was just very large and thick. Even the hard plastic case that the bar was in was quite thick. >>



Ah, I missed the hard plastic case. That would add some weight.

CaptHenway

<< <i>So, the forger's plan is to deceive our scales with heavy packaging? Was there any gold in the bar at all?

Does anyone know how much the packaging should weigh? Often with bars and rounds we are aware of their weights, but I don't think I have any records of the packaging weights. How much should RCM bars weigh when they are still sealed? >>



I would assume that the packaging was intended to add weight, and that there was no gold at all, but those are just assumptions on my part.

DrBuster

Man I wish that pic of the fake was better.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>So, the forger's plan is to deceive our scales with heavy packaging? Was there any gold in the bar at all?

Does anyone know how much the packaging should weigh? Often with bars and rounds we are aware of their weights, but I don't think I have any records of the packaging weights. How much should RCM bars weigh when they are still sealed? >>



I would assume that the packaging was intended to add weight, and that there was no gold at all, but those are just assumptions on my part. >>



I would think that they would at least gold plate this bar.

CaptHenway

<< <i>So, the forger's plan is to deceive our scales with heavy packaging? Was there any gold in the bar at all?

Does anyone know how much the packaging should weigh? Often with bars and rounds we are aware of their weights, but I don't think I have any records of the packaging weights. How much should RCM bars weigh when they are still sealed? >>



There is a good chance that the packaging does not exist in real life, but only with the fakes, in which case there would be no "should weigh" weight to compare it to.

As to the gold content, if any, nobody on this side of the law knows.

Pokermandude

I'm not sure what the bar was made of. It looks pretty good on the outside, specimen style finish which seems consistent with legit bars. Gold plated surely. It seemed more dense than silver.

I couldn't find that type of packaging anywhere, which is why I posted that first thread. The RCM probably never has issued a bar with that type of packaging/round assay crappy hologram card.

Timbuk3

Thanks for the heads-up !!!

Pokermandude

A pleasant update!

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/03/27/ontario-man-busted-for-making-fake-gold-in-his-home

Pokermandude

And another story with more pics

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2013/03/27/barrie-man-facing-fraud-raps-for-selling-fake-gold

nibanny

Thanks for the update.
Glad they found him pretty quickly.

DorkGirl

Was that the guy who came to your shop?

Pokermandude

After reading the second story (where they mention that this man flew to Edmonton), I believe that it probably was that crook rather than one of his victims. He went by a different name when we met. And full disclosure, I don't own a shop. Vest pocket dealing only

It sounds like this guy defrauded quite a few people over the internet through his phoney online bullion business.

DorkGirl

He was just a good actor then. I suppose they all are.

Pokermandude

Bump for title change in case anyone missed the update. It appears that he was making them himself right here in Canada. Just goes to show that not all fakes originate in China.