So I went to a local coin shop today and asked about ASEs...
mrpaseo
Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
First and foremost... The location reeked of smoke (Major turn off for me as I am not a smoker). The owner (I have talked to him before but it was over 8 months ago) was on the phone so I spoke with his helper. When I asked what he had for ASE's he pulled out two rolls (I'm sure he had more but this is what he pulled out) 2007 and 2008. I asked what he was charging and he said, "$36.00".... I said, "That much? SPOT is in the $28's" to whit he turned his TV to the channel and waited for the SPOT prices to pop up.
Here are my questions.
1. That seemed excessive, what should I be looking for when buying ASE's? I was thinking $3 over spot would be high, he was asking for $6.26 over spot at the time.
2. Finding out the SPOT price, what is the most accurate way to get the SPOT price? I mean there has got to be a hundred aps that have up to date info, kitco.com, nasdaq.com.... He went to the TV, is that up to the second?
3. How do you feel about smoking in the coin shop? Truthfully that makes me want to go elsewhere (Not to mention I feel he was gouging me with the $36 quote).
I did get his business card so I think I'll call ahead if I am in the market for some bullion.
Here are my questions.
1. That seemed excessive, what should I be looking for when buying ASE's? I was thinking $3 over spot would be high, he was asking for $6.26 over spot at the time.
2. Finding out the SPOT price, what is the most accurate way to get the SPOT price? I mean there has got to be a hundred aps that have up to date info, kitco.com, nasdaq.com.... He went to the TV, is that up to the second?
3. How do you feel about smoking in the coin shop? Truthfully that makes me want to go elsewhere (Not to mention I feel he was gouging me with the $36 quote).
I did get his business card so I think I'll call ahead if I am in the market for some bullion.
0
Comments
1) $3.00 above spot is fair
2) use Kitco
3) I smoke so I don't care
Good Luck !!!
<< <i>My answers to your questions !!!
1) $3.00 above spot is fair
2) use Kitco
3) I smoke so I don't care
Good Luck !!! >>
Agreed, also depending on his relationship with you and other keys I don't feel $6 over spot is that bad. Did you try to work him down at all?
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>My answers to your questions !!!
1) $3.00 above spot is fair
2) use Kitco
3) I smoke so I don't care
Good Luck !!! >>
Agreed, also depending on his relationship with you and other keys I don't feel $6 over spot is that bad. Did you try to work him down at all? >>
I did not, I have no experience but felt that was a large mark up. Which is why I came to you good peeps to guide me right
<< <i>Run a buy post on the BST forum and on the BST thread in the PM forum. >>
I may just do that
2. kitco.com or on tv I watch cnbc
3. smoking in a coin shop is nasty. i don't want my coins smelling like smoke. I grew up with that smell from my mother and I can't breathe when I'm around it. If the coin shop I went in today smelled like smoke I would have walked right out.
Jim
There's no law that says local shops have to accept $3-$4 over spot for ASE's....especially if they bought some of these in January at $3 higher. If the coins don't come in over
the counter at the right price, they can't sell them cheaply. Are local shops being inundated by people looking to dump ASE's the past week or two?
Tulving is advertising ASE's at +$2.59 over spot. He buys about $1 under that. Thing is, there's a 500 coin minimum.
$6 over spot seems like alot,when you compare it to prices from say goldmart or provident.Just ordered a few rolls from goldmart@$31.40 each.If you want to be able to buy and walk out then I guess you will pay more for them.
In my local area, they are asking $36.00 and up PLUS Sales Tax. So for $36.00 Tax included and you are only buying 2 or 3 of them, it is fair and a reasonable deal.
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<< <i>At $6.50 over I would look into buying 10 oz. bars, Engelhard and JM's should be around $2.00-2.25 over and Sunshine, NTR, Acadamy, etc. should be $1.50-1.75 over. >>
Agreed. I view ASE's and similar rounds as a way to buy small amounts at a time. You pay a little more for the convenience. If you are looking for the best deal, I don't think ASE's will ever be the best deal. That said if you're looking for the best deal on ASE's you will probably need to buy a lot of them (like a tube, or a roll, or a box of tubes).
The deals are always in the bulk lots.
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<< <i>At $6.50 over I would look into buying 10 oz. bars, Engelhard and JM's should be around $2.00-2.25 over and Sunshine, NTR, Acadamy, etc. should be $1.50-1.75 over. >>
Good luck finding brand name 999 silver bars that close to melt.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have access to literally thousands of cull Morgans that I would be glad to sell to anyone for $28.50/coin at this time with Spot is where it is, thousands for that price
I don't smoke, and I don't mind smokers except for when they throw the butt on the ground after they've shortened their life just that much more and permanently destroyed their lungs.
At least put the damn thing where it belongs and not on the ground you nasty b-tards who have no self respect (only talking to those that do this, not to the smokers that dispose of it properly)
1. $3-5 is about right when buying at a storefront barring they bought them right where they can sell them at that price. For example, if you bought them at $33 when spot was $33 and you could afford to hold them until spot comes back up, would you sell them for $3-4 over spot when spot is $28?
2. Kitco has up to date spot prices. Usually the stock ticker on CNBC is pretty close also, which was probably what he was looking at. There is also a BID/ASK price to spot silver also. Most of what you see on TV is the BID price.
3. I dispise cigarettes. Being in the healthcare field makes it all the more worse That and having severe sinus allergies to cig smoke. What makes me furious is folks on full government assistance/insurance that smoke like there's no tomorrow.....soon it will be.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Try the exchange at bulliondirect.com. Currently 30 available at 31.75 >>
That is a cool website. I have never been there before. Have you used it in the past? What is your experience? It reminds me of the NASDAQ stock exchange. Do the fees and shipping charges make it too costly for small orders?
jim
<< <i>Right now, we have calls coming in by the truckload wanting to buy eagles, problem is nobody wants to sell thiers at the current price, but nobody wants to pay more than $3 over to aquire them.
jim >>
Tell them to buy them at +$3 from all the people in the CU Forums who decree that the Law of Supply and Demand is dead, and that +$3 should be the price.
lol, good one
Ray
<< <i>
<< <i>At $6.50 over I would look into buying 10 oz. bars, Engelhard and JM's should be around $2.00-2.25 over and Sunshine, NTR, Acadamy, etc. should be $1.50-1.75 over. >>
Good luck finding brand name 999 silver bars that close to melt. >>
Actually one of the local dealers I buy from sold me an old poured 10 oz. Engelhard a month ago for $2.25 over spot.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>At $6.50 over I would look into buying 10 oz. bars, Engelhard and JM's should be around $2.00-2.25 over and Sunshine, NTR, Acadamy, etc. should be $1.50-1.75 over. >>
Good luck finding brand name 999 silver bars that close to melt. >>
Actually one of the local dealers I buy from sold me an old poured 10 oz. Engelhard a month ago for $2.25 over spot. >>
That's nice price but certainly not typical. See what they bring on eBay and see what the major bullion dealers are selling them for. The premium over melt is usually higher.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Finding a good seller (dealer) who is competitive no matter what the buy-sell spreads are doing - should be your priority. The well-established firms, such as Silvertowne, Apmex, Tulving, Provident Metals - these are all retail sellers who are always trying to be competitive in the market, and usually have inventory. Use them as a guideline for current pricing, and shop around for the best deal.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>There is a time to buy, and that's when you have the money. When it's time to buy, it doesn't matter what the premium is - as long as you shop around a bit and make sure that you are buying at a competitive price. You can make it a full-time venture if you simply must have the best price. That's "called becoming a dealer". Since I already have a job, "becoming a dealer" is not high on my agenda, but accumulation of precious metals is.
Finding a good seller (dealer) who is competitive no matter what the buy-sell spreads are doing - should be your priority. The well-established firms, such as Silvertowne, Apmex, Tulving, Provident Metals - these are all retail sellers who are always trying to be competitive in the market, and usually have inventory. Use them as a guideline for current pricing, and shop around for the best deal. >>
Agree and this is what I do. Also, sometimes you can get good deals from fellow forum members on the BST.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I respectfully disagree if we are talking about old pour 5 or 10 oz Engelhards. It's hit or miss if they have them and when they do they're typically higher than what one can be won for on shillBay, I mean eBay.
<< <i>The well-established firms, such as Silvertowne, Apmex, Tulving, Provident Metals - these are all retail sellers who are always trying to be competitive in the market, and usually have inventory.
I respectfully disagree if we are talking about old pour 5 or 10 oz Engelhards. It's hit or miss if they have them and when they do they're typically higher than what one can be won for on shillBay, I mean eBay.
Since this thread is based on common date bullion 1 oz ASE's or similar products, "The well-established firm" comment hits the nail on the head.
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<< <i>Feels like a stupid question, but is there state tax on bullion sales? I bought 2 ASE today of my kids birth year from the B&M. He was $4over spot, but he charged the MD 6% state tax. That took them to $5.98 over. >>
Yes..several States have adopted a sales tax on bullion and or coins. MD being one of them, but only if you are a MD resident buying from a MD dealer. I believe there is no tax however, if the transaction is above $1k - not sure though.
<< <i>
<< <i>Feels like a stupid question, but is there state tax on bullion sales? I bought 2 ASE today of my kids birth year from the B&M. He was $4over spot, but he charged the MD 6% state tax. That took them to $5.98 over. >>
Yes..several States have adopted a sales tax on bullion and or coins. MD being one of them, but only if you are a MD resident buying from a MD dealer. I believe there is no tax however, if the transaction is above $1k - not sure though. >>
Unless they just changed the law, any coin transactions over $1000 in Maryland is not subject to sales tax.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>First and foremost... The location reeked of smoke (Major turn off for me as I am not a smoker). The owner (I have talked to him before but it was over 8 months ago) was on the phone so I spoke with his helper. When I asked what he had for ASE's he pulled out two rolls (I'm sure he had more but this is what he pulled out) 2007 and 2008. I asked what he was charging and he said, "$36.00".... I said, "That much? SPOT is in the $28's" to whit he turned his TV to the channel and waited for the SPOT prices to pop up.
Truthfully that makes me want to go elsewhere (Not to mention I feel he was gouging me with the $36 quote). I did get his business card so I think I'll call ahead if I am in the market for some bullion. >>
This really depends on the specific store and the specific buyer, and the number of coins we're talking about in the deal.
Most members of this board would never think to go to a nice coin store in a good area with fancy displays and attractive sales ladies and expect to buy one single ASE for $2 over spot, it would be more like the 6 or 8 over like you said. Maybe get a volume discount for a roll, but a store has to pay for overhead
On the other hand, for a 5-roll deal online, two or even one dollar over spot per coin might be a reasonable goal, including shipping.
As far as having to put up with a jerk and a smoky shop, I'd simply shop elsewhere. (unless for some unfathomable reason you had to buy your ASE there and then
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
As I understand, not in Tennessee where I am now.
If they were fair, it would be over spot price. If they said spot, or lower, then you know they are really into the rip.
If their buy/sell isn't that far apart, and they are churning quickly, then I would view them as fair. I have noticed that some shops really play the game, though, and I am not there to play games.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
If the market is really volatile, a larger spread can be justified.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Feels like a stupid question, but is there state tax on bullion sales? I bought 2 ASE today of my kids birth year from the B&M. He was $4over spot, but he charged the MD 6% state tax. That took them to $5.98 over. >>
Everything sold in a state is subject to the state's sales tax unless specifically exempted. FL for example exempts coin sales.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Thank you all for the responses,
Ray
I hit the local pawn shops twice a week and can usually purchase ASE's for $3-$5 over spot. All about volume, the more you purchase the better the price.
EDIT: Still have rolls there were purchased for $180, just 10 years ago or so.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Dealers pay somewhere around $2.50 over what ever they use and it seem more and more they are using ASK not bid.
So I think $3.00 over is really cheep and $6.00 is more in line give or take.
<< <i>I would love to know how the dealers who are selling Silver Eagles singley for $3 over spot are keeping their doors open and their lights on. Seeing as the wholesale cost is $2.35 over spot, making 65 cents on a transaction yields a loss of 5-10 times that when you take into account the time the transaction takes, resources, an envelope and everything else people need. If people are going to buy a single or only a few we charge a pretty high premium and people pay it. They also know if they buy a roll of 20 the premium comes down significantly. If you buy 500 then you get the best price. I can't believe how few people here realize that unless the person is ripping off sellers bringing them in, $3 over for a single piece is just not going to work. When we quote a price we make it clear, one piece is x over but if you buy a roll of 20 it is... >>
I wish he did quote the QT discount, before I asked what he was selling them for I told him I am just starting out. I assumed he took that as inexperienced and he could take advantage of me. I do understand the concept of QT purchases and will most likely save up to purchase a roll at a time.
On that note, is there a way to purchase "un-searched" rolls?
Thanks,
Ray
<< <i>I find buying by the roll gives me the best price, that's within my budget. A Monster box is the way to go, but beyond my budget.
I hit the local pawn shops twice a week and can usually purchase ASE's for $3-$5 over spot. All about volume, the more you purchase the better the price.
EDIT: Still have rolls there were purchased for $180, just 10 years ago or so. >>
I agree, by the roll seems to be the break point, if I save up I can buy a few per year.
Thanks,
Ray
<< <i>Offer $27 and a pack of Camels... >>
The irony is, I did have some PCGS MS68 ASE's a few years ago when Silver peaked at $50 per oz. I did not plan it at all, it just came time to sell and I sold. They purchased some Platinum, Gold and Silver from me. I would like to add that they did not purchase my MS70's (Platinum and Gold), he said he could not give me what I should get for them... Meaning, he did not try to take advantage of me by swapping them all up into the sale. That said, I would probably give them another change except for the smoke... sad really. I will probably go back there after I check out all the other places in the area.
<< <i>everyone forgets that ordering from APMEX and others charge for shipping and handling, and not so cheap.
Dealers pay somewhere around $2.50 over what ever they use and it seem more and more they are using ASK not bid.
So I think $3.00 over is really cheep and $6.00 is more in line give or take. >>
Actually, some of those places have free delivery when purchasing large quantities.
I agree that $3.00 over spot should be about average, $6.00 to me is insulting. Though, I should have asked what the price was if I purchased a larger quantity. I do have his business card, I could call and ask.
Thanks,
Ray
<< <i>
<< <i>everyone forgets that ordering from APMEX and others charge for shipping and handling, and not so cheap.
Dealers pay somewhere around $2.50 over what ever they use and it seem more and more they are using ASK not bid.
So I think $3.00 over is really cheep and $6.00 is more in line give or take. >>
Actually, some of those places have free delivery when purchasing large quantities.
I agree that $3.00 over spot should be about average, $6.00 to me is insulting. Though, I should have asked what the price was if I purchased a larger quantity. I do have his business card, I could call and ask.
Thanks,
Ray >>
Well its a good thing you have approximately 0 vote as to what people "SHOULD" charge
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>everyone forgets that ordering from APMEX and others charge for shipping and handling, and not so cheap.
Dealers pay somewhere around $2.50 over what ever they use and it seem more and more they are using ASK not bid.
So I think $3.00 over is really cheep and $6.00 is more in line give or take. >>
Actually, some of those places have free delivery when purchasing large quantities.
I agree that $3.00 over spot should be about average, $6.00 to me is insulting. Though, I should have asked what the price was if I purchased a larger quantity. I do have his business card, I could call and ask.
Thanks,
Ray >>
Well its a good thing you have approximately 0 vote as to what people "SHOULD" charge >>
Great, thank you for pointing that out... I guess. lol SMDH.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>everyone forgets that ordering from APMEX and others charge for shipping and handling, and not so cheap.
Dealers pay somewhere around $2.50 over what ever they use and it seem more and more they are using ASK not bid.
So I think $3.00 over is really cheep and $6.00 is more in line give or take. >>
Actually, some of those places have free delivery when purchasing large quantities.
I agree that $3.00 over spot should be about average, $6.00 to me is insulting. Though, I should have asked what the price was if I purchased a larger quantity. I do have his business card, I could call and ask.
Thanks,
Ray >>
Well its a good thing you have approximately 0 vote as to what people "SHOULD" charge >>
Ohhhh, I get it... You are a dealer. I understand your position now.