Again, I disagree Tim. $50 is the market value for a tray until realized prices prove otherwise
Paul, if you can find me some mint 1979 trays for $50 dlvd, plmk, as I'd definitely be a buyer at that price.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So even if he did list them at $60 it's most likely people were getting them for $55 or less.
On the contrary, with shipping, even at a $55 unit price, the actual cost would be greater than $60.
Steve knows this. Why on earth would he bid over $60 a tray on this case if he didn't think he could make a profit?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>the last time Steve had 79 trays in stock he listed them at $60 IIRC. The last time he had 79 wax boxes in stock, I believe they were listed for $500 IIRC.
Both items have risen steadily in value over last year or so (I can remember getting 79 wax boxes from a rock solid source for $400 dlvd as recently as a couple years ago and 79 trays for $35 at that time, too) and $60 is the market value for a tray right now.
Paul, don't forget, too, that a number of the trays you listed prices for had tears in the cellophane, which is why they sold for a lower price. The trays in this case (I'm assuming) will be pristine. There's a big difference there for the tray or unopened collector. >>
Again, I disagree Tim. $50 is the market value for a tray until realized prices prove otherwise ... it's not what they could sell for that denotes value, it's what someone actually pays.
As for Steve's listings, we all know that one can typically get 10% off if one buys from him, especially in bulk. So even if he did list them at $60 it's most likely people were getting them for $55 or less.
Like I've said before, I completely agree that this stuff is drying up and will steadily increase in value and realized price ... it's only a matter of time IMO.
EDIT: Tim the seller did indeed confirm that the case he was selling is sealed, so that should definitely add to the value of it ... especially over time ... if it is left sealed. >>
Ummmmm.... If Steve had won the auction for $62 per pack, you still think he would have sold them *in bulk* for $55 each? I would say the BBCE buy price would indicate the low side of the market value.
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
Wow Tim, you're right! Over $300 each for an '81 BB rack box. Looks to me like the '79 tray case might have been the buy of the day.
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
Wow Tim, you're right! Over $300 each for an '81 BB rack box. Looks to me like the '79 tray case might have been the buy of the day.
I said the current value of the packs, IMO, is $50. Shipping is on top of that ... that's why I removed it from the average that I calculated.
As for Steve he is clearly speculating that prices WILL rise ... which I've said before (time and time again) I agree with!
But there is a difference between what things have gone for and what they may go for - get it? >>
Not distorting at all. The case auction had free shipping so the dlvd price was $63, correct? You can't use that number as the dlvd price and then use auctioin prices for single trays before shipping costs. People factor those costs into their bid prices. If I see a 79 tray for $50 with $5 shipping, I'm going to buy that btray before the one priced at $48 with $8 shipping.
Edit to add: Just saw your edit...so at $50 plus shipping, we're right near $60 anyway (maybe $55-$56) and that's for a single tray that may have a tear on the corner or two. The trays in this case are worth at least $10 more than that kind of lone tray, imo (not to mention the sealed case premium). And Steve, again, knows this, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I was a buyer on that 81 at $250/box. But couldn't ride it out to $300. Definitely a premium for a sealed cae. Nice sale. >>
Yea David, Steve broke a sealed rack case less than a year ago and sold the boxes for $200 each. Apparently, I overpaid by $20 since Steve always offers a 10% discount. Now I just wish I had bought more than 1!
Dpeck is spot on. Steve is he market maker, period. We have all gotten better deals away from bbce and we have all been torched away from bbce as well. He has earned his premium.
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
I am willing to bet that Dmitri Young was somewhere in the bidding for that 1981 case. In the same interview in which he talked about selling his PSA 10 rookie collection, he mentioned he would continue with his quest to find the first PSA 10 Topps Valenzuela rookie. He also mentioned that he has bought up every kind of 1981 Topps case he could get his hands on over the years in search of that card.
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
I am willing to bet that Dmitri Young was somewhere in the bidding for that 1981 case. In the same interview in which he talked about selling his PSA 10 rookie collection, he mentioned he would continue with his quest to find the first PSA 10 Topps Valenzuela rookie. He also mentioned that he has bought up every kind of 1981 Topps case he could get his hands on over the years in search of that card. >>
Interesting if true(on him bidding on this recent case).
<< <i>So it's not really accurate to say that just because someone bought something at a certain price, everyone else will ... though clearly some carry more pull than others ... the market ultimately dictates the true value. >>
True. But, it's also not accurate to say that just because *you* won't pay a certain price nobody else will or should. As Tim mentioned earlier, the going rate for a well handled 79 wax tray from eBayer X that may or may not have a couple rips in it is going to be different than a tray pack that is pristine from a sealed case.
This thread has been a blast reading. I have enjoyed reading everyones comments with regards to what value they have put on these cases. While I agree no one really knows what "market value" is on an unopened case, many feel there is a huge premium as a sealed case for potential resell down the road. I will be putting back the 1979 Topps and 1981 Topps cases back in my collection as I was the high bidder on these. Knowing that Steve was one of the underbidder on these two cases makes me feel really good about the purchase price. I have no idea what Steve would have sold these packs for on his website or if he would have just sold it straight as a case to one of his clients. I do know that when I look at Steve's buy prices vs. the sell prices of his inventory, he is not looking for a $6 return on a $62 investment. Steve has always been a market setter for our industry and provides a ton of fun for us collectors who like to rip or put stuff back for investments. Thanks to Steve for being an honest, knowledgeble seller for the industry because he does bring some pretty awesome items for all of us to enjoy.
Shane
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
Paul, if you can find me some mint 1979 trays for $50 dlvd, plmk, as I'd definitely be a buyer at that price.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
On the contrary, with shipping, even at a $55 unit price, the actual cost would be greater than $60.
Steve knows this. Why on earth would he bid over $60 a tray on this case if he didn't think he could make a profit?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>the last time Steve had 79 trays in stock he listed them at $60 IIRC. The last time he had 79 wax boxes in stock, I believe they were listed for $500 IIRC.
Both items have risen steadily in value over last year or so (I can remember getting 79 wax boxes from a rock solid source for $400 dlvd as recently as a couple years ago and 79 trays for $35 at that time, too) and $60 is the market value for a tray right now.
Paul, don't forget, too, that a number of the trays you listed prices for had tears in the cellophane, which is why they sold for a lower price. The trays in this case (I'm assuming) will be pristine. There's a big difference there for the tray or unopened collector. >>
Again, I disagree Tim. $50 is the market value for a tray until realized prices prove otherwise ... it's not what they could sell for that denotes value, it's what someone actually pays.
As for Steve's listings, we all know that one can typically get 10% off if one buys from him, especially in bulk. So even if he did list them at $60 it's most likely people were getting them for $55 or less.
Like I've said before, I completely agree that this stuff is drying up and will steadily increase in value and realized price ... it's only a matter of time IMO.
EDIT: Tim the seller did indeed confirm that the case he was selling is sealed, so that should definitely add to the value of it ... especially over time ... if it is left sealed. >>
Ummmmm.... If Steve had won the auction for $62 per pack, you still think he would have sold them *in bulk* for $55 each? I would say the BBCE buy price would indicate the low side of the market value.
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
Wow Tim, you're right! Over $300 each for an '81 BB rack box. Looks to me like the '79 tray case might have been the buy of the day.
-Doug
<< <i>
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
Wow Tim, you're right! Over $300 each for an '81 BB rack box. Looks to me like the '79 tray case might have been the buy of the day.
-Doug >>
+1
aconte
<< <i>LOL - Tim you're distorting what I said.
I said the current value of the packs, IMO, is $50. Shipping is on top of that ... that's why I removed it from the average that I calculated.
As for Steve he is clearly speculating that prices WILL rise ... which I've said before (time and time again) I agree with!
But there is a difference between what things have gone for and what they may go for - get it? >>
Not distorting at all. The case auction had free shipping so the dlvd price was $63, correct? You can't use that number as the dlvd price and then use auctioin prices for single trays before shipping costs. People factor those costs into their bid prices. If I see a 79 tray for $50 with $5 shipping, I'm going to buy that btray before the one priced at $48 with $8 shipping.
Edit to add: Just saw your edit...so at $50 plus shipping, we're right near $60 anyway (maybe $55-$56) and that's for a single tray that may have a tear on the corner or two. The trays in this case are worth at least $10 more than that kind of lone tray, imo (not to mention the sealed case premium). And Steve, again, knows this, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Whatever that price was is what the wholesale side of the market is and most are on the retail side.
If he bid $62 per pack then using $50 as a stated value is pointless.
<< <i>I was a buyer on that 81 at $250/box. But couldn't ride it out to $300. Definitely a premium for a sealed cae. Nice sale. >>
Yea David, Steve broke a sealed rack case less than a year ago and sold the boxes for $200 each. Apparently, I overpaid by $20 since Steve always offers a 10% discount. Now I just wish I had bought more than 1!
Doug
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
I am willing to bet that Dmitri Young was somewhere in the bidding for that 1981 case. In the same interview in which he talked about selling his PSA 10 rookie collection, he mentioned he would continue with his quest to find the first PSA 10 Topps Valenzuela rookie. He also mentioned that he has bought up every kind of 1981 Topps case he could get his hands on over the years in search of that card.
<< <i>
<< <i>The '81 cases went for a real premium...what these auctions underscore is that prices are rising rather quickly on unopened product of late. How long before we see 1980 rack packs listed for $50?? >>
I am willing to bet that Dmitri Young was somewhere in the bidding for that 1981 case. In the same interview in which he talked about selling his PSA 10 rookie collection, he mentioned he would continue with his quest to find the first PSA 10 Topps Valenzuela rookie. He also mentioned that he has bought up every kind of 1981 Topps case he could get his hands on over the years in search of that card. >>
Interesting if true(on him bidding on this recent case).
<< <i>So it's not really accurate to say that just because someone bought something at a certain price, everyone else will ... though clearly some carry more pull than others ... the market ultimately dictates the true value. >>
True. But, it's also not accurate to say that just because *you* won't pay a certain price nobody else will or should. As Tim mentioned earlier, the going rate for a well handled 79 wax tray from eBayer X that may or may not have a couple rips in it is going to be different than a tray pack that is pristine from a sealed case.
Steve has always been a market setter for our industry and provides a ton of fun for us collectors who like to rip or put stuff back for investments. Thanks to Steve for being an honest, knowledgeble seller for the industry because he does bring some pretty awesome items for all of us to enjoy.
Shane
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Congrats on the pickups, Shane! >>
+1. Glad these went to a board member.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06