Coin show report - TSNS Spring Coin show - Chattanooga, TN
1970SilverArt
Posts: 482 ✭
Today, I did go to the 1st day of the Tennessee State Numismatic Society Spring coin show. I got there at shortly before it started and decided to check Kitco.com to see what spot silver and spot gold prices were at. Spot silver was at $28.66 when I arrived at the show. Spot gold was at $1583.40 when I arrived at the show. Once I got inside, I started looking around at the various dealer tables looking for silver art bars that I am interested in adding to my collection. Looking around and seeing the various people there, I would say that the older people (older than 40) outnumbered the younger people at this show. This is not a surprise to me. I did see some of the dealers there that I have done past business with at past coin show locations. I talked to some of them to see how they are doing. As I was looking around the coin show, I did observe prices on some of the common gold and silver coins and bars that I saw at this show. Here are some of the price that I have observed and asked about:
SAE's: Most of the Silver Eagles that I saw ranged in price from $32 to $34. The $32 price that I saw for some common date SAE's were in "scruffy" condition. I do not quite remember but I think that I saw some "colored" (i.e. painted) SAE's selling for spot + $3 at another dealer table.
.999 generic silver (bars and rounds): $30 was the lowest price that I have seen so far during the 1st day of the show. The 1-oz .999 generic silver rounds outnumbered 1-oz .999 generic silver bars by what I feel is a wide margin. Since Silvertowne was at this show this year, I suspect that they have the lowest premium (0.50 over spot) for there .999 generic silver (does not include there new silver rounds and bars). From what I could gather, all of the other dealers selling .999 generic silver were selling it at $30 and up. There was another dealer from Chicago that was selling some APMEX and Sunshine brand name bars but I did not see what they were selling for. I also did see some old pour silver bars at this show but they were not Engelhard.
1- oz gold Krugerrand: A dealer told me that he was selling one for $1750. I feel that this is way too high for this particular gold coin considering that I saw another dealer selling a common date 1-oz gold GAE for much less than that. Generally speaking, I think that Krugs sell for a lower premium than GAE's which leads me to believe that a person can shop around at this show and find a 1-oz Krug for much less than $1750. Just my take on this.
1-oz GAE: $1665.00. There were some other dealers selling 1-oz GAE's but I did not ask about price.
Silver Art bars: I was very disappointed in the number of old '70's silver art bars that were present at this show but at the same time, it was not a surprise to me considering that these old silver art bars are much harder to find now. There was a silver art bar dealer there and I did see one bar that I might get but I held off for now because I wanted to see if I could find some at .999 generic silver premiums. Most of the silver art bars that I saw were the new Silvertowne generic silver art bars and most of the old '70's silver art bars were holiday-themed bars that I was not interested in buying. The price range of the common art bars ranged from $30 to $48. The silver art bars that one silver art bar dealer had ranged in price from $40 to as much as $125 (rare Greathouse Productions). I ended up buying a couple of silver art bars from two different dealers during the 1st day of the show so I am satisfied with it. I will post them later on another thread.
Engelhard Prospectors: I did see $32.00 for one that I saw. There was another dealer table selling Engelhard Prospectors but I did not get a price on them.
1/10-oz GAE: $185 was the lowest price that I saw and $195 was the highest price that I have heard. Those prices are for the common years. There were some 2013 1/10-oz GAEs there but I do not know how much they were. I am making a wild guess that they are probably start at $195 and go higher from there depending on which dealer table that you find them at.
100-oz silver bars: A dealer quoted me a price of $3100 for an Engelhard bar. There might be some other 100-oz silver bars at other dealer tables that are lower than $3100. I did not look closely on this.
10-oz silver bars: The same dealer that quoted me a price on the 100-oz Engelhard bar also had a 10-oz Engelhard bar and he quoted me a price of $305.00 for that particular one. I also did see some other 10-oz silver bars at this show from Silvertowne, NTR, and some other brands.
Junk silver: A dealer table that I saw had some silver dimes (mostly Mercs) that he was selling for $2.75 each.
Silver Dollars: Saw some Peace dollars selling for $30 at one dealer table. Most of the silver dollars that I saw were slabbed Morgans and clabbed Peace which were selling at higher prices than the raw ones.
1-oz Canadian Moose silver coin: $39.00
Those were the prices that I observed and asked about at some of the dealer tables. I also did see some Chinese Panda gold and silver coins present at this show as well as some Lunar coins (mainly silver 2012 Year of the Dragon). There were also some other non-PM coins at this show such as buffalo nickels and wheat cents (slabbed and raw). I will say that there was plenty of silver at this coin show and if someone wanted to go to this show to look for silver, then they would not be disappointed because it was there. However, as I mentioned earlier, when it came to finding the old '70's silver art bars at .999 generic silver premiums at this show, then this was a huge disappointment to me since I collect silver art bars. With the exception of Jim's silver art bar table, the pickings were very slim when it comes to finding old silver art bars at .999 generic silver premiums at this show this year. The fact that silver went from $31 to the $28 range might had a lot to do with the lack of silver art bar selection. When I went to the Silvertowne dealer table, I asked one of the dealer that recognized me if they had any silver art bars that they bought today and the only thing that they had were 2 Merry Christmas bars which I passed on. I plan to go back to the Silvertowne dealer table tomorrow to see if they got in anything else.
I also heard a rumor that the dealers who sell bullion at this show had to start collecting sales tax. Some of the dealers that I spoke to mentioned this to me that they might have to start doing this. Some of the dealers that I spoke to at coin shows that were outside Tennessee said that they were not coming back at the Chattanooga, TN coin show if that is the case. Maybe the OP can confirm this. I have been going to this particular coin show since 2008 and I have never been charged a sales tax. There is a Tennessee sales tax on bullion purchased at local coin shops located in Tennessee but dealers at the coin shows never charged me sales tax unless it was priced in the premium of the bullion that they were selling but I doubt it. I have never been charged a sales tax on bullion that I bought at past coin shows in Tennessee.
This coin show continues tomorrow and the last day is Sunday. I plan to go back to the show tomorrow to have better luck at finding silver art bars. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for me.
SAE's: Most of the Silver Eagles that I saw ranged in price from $32 to $34. The $32 price that I saw for some common date SAE's were in "scruffy" condition. I do not quite remember but I think that I saw some "colored" (i.e. painted) SAE's selling for spot + $3 at another dealer table.
.999 generic silver (bars and rounds): $30 was the lowest price that I have seen so far during the 1st day of the show. The 1-oz .999 generic silver rounds outnumbered 1-oz .999 generic silver bars by what I feel is a wide margin. Since Silvertowne was at this show this year, I suspect that they have the lowest premium (0.50 over spot) for there .999 generic silver (does not include there new silver rounds and bars). From what I could gather, all of the other dealers selling .999 generic silver were selling it at $30 and up. There was another dealer from Chicago that was selling some APMEX and Sunshine brand name bars but I did not see what they were selling for. I also did see some old pour silver bars at this show but they were not Engelhard.
1- oz gold Krugerrand: A dealer told me that he was selling one for $1750. I feel that this is way too high for this particular gold coin considering that I saw another dealer selling a common date 1-oz gold GAE for much less than that. Generally speaking, I think that Krugs sell for a lower premium than GAE's which leads me to believe that a person can shop around at this show and find a 1-oz Krug for much less than $1750. Just my take on this.
1-oz GAE: $1665.00. There were some other dealers selling 1-oz GAE's but I did not ask about price.
Silver Art bars: I was very disappointed in the number of old '70's silver art bars that were present at this show but at the same time, it was not a surprise to me considering that these old silver art bars are much harder to find now. There was a silver art bar dealer there and I did see one bar that I might get but I held off for now because I wanted to see if I could find some at .999 generic silver premiums. Most of the silver art bars that I saw were the new Silvertowne generic silver art bars and most of the old '70's silver art bars were holiday-themed bars that I was not interested in buying. The price range of the common art bars ranged from $30 to $48. The silver art bars that one silver art bar dealer had ranged in price from $40 to as much as $125 (rare Greathouse Productions). I ended up buying a couple of silver art bars from two different dealers during the 1st day of the show so I am satisfied with it. I will post them later on another thread.
Engelhard Prospectors: I did see $32.00 for one that I saw. There was another dealer table selling Engelhard Prospectors but I did not get a price on them.
1/10-oz GAE: $185 was the lowest price that I saw and $195 was the highest price that I have heard. Those prices are for the common years. There were some 2013 1/10-oz GAEs there but I do not know how much they were. I am making a wild guess that they are probably start at $195 and go higher from there depending on which dealer table that you find them at.
100-oz silver bars: A dealer quoted me a price of $3100 for an Engelhard bar. There might be some other 100-oz silver bars at other dealer tables that are lower than $3100. I did not look closely on this.
10-oz silver bars: The same dealer that quoted me a price on the 100-oz Engelhard bar also had a 10-oz Engelhard bar and he quoted me a price of $305.00 for that particular one. I also did see some other 10-oz silver bars at this show from Silvertowne, NTR, and some other brands.
Junk silver: A dealer table that I saw had some silver dimes (mostly Mercs) that he was selling for $2.75 each.
Silver Dollars: Saw some Peace dollars selling for $30 at one dealer table. Most of the silver dollars that I saw were slabbed Morgans and clabbed Peace which were selling at higher prices than the raw ones.
1-oz Canadian Moose silver coin: $39.00
Those were the prices that I observed and asked about at some of the dealer tables. I also did see some Chinese Panda gold and silver coins present at this show as well as some Lunar coins (mainly silver 2012 Year of the Dragon). There were also some other non-PM coins at this show such as buffalo nickels and wheat cents (slabbed and raw). I will say that there was plenty of silver at this coin show and if someone wanted to go to this show to look for silver, then they would not be disappointed because it was there. However, as I mentioned earlier, when it came to finding the old '70's silver art bars at .999 generic silver premiums at this show, then this was a huge disappointment to me since I collect silver art bars. With the exception of Jim's silver art bar table, the pickings were very slim when it comes to finding old silver art bars at .999 generic silver premiums at this show this year. The fact that silver went from $31 to the $28 range might had a lot to do with the lack of silver art bar selection. When I went to the Silvertowne dealer table, I asked one of the dealer that recognized me if they had any silver art bars that they bought today and the only thing that they had were 2 Merry Christmas bars which I passed on. I plan to go back to the Silvertowne dealer table tomorrow to see if they got in anything else.
I also heard a rumor that the dealers who sell bullion at this show had to start collecting sales tax. Some of the dealers that I spoke to mentioned this to me that they might have to start doing this. Some of the dealers that I spoke to at coin shows that were outside Tennessee said that they were not coming back at the Chattanooga, TN coin show if that is the case. Maybe the OP can confirm this. I have been going to this particular coin show since 2008 and I have never been charged a sales tax. There is a Tennessee sales tax on bullion purchased at local coin shops located in Tennessee but dealers at the coin shows never charged me sales tax unless it was priced in the premium of the bullion that they were selling but I doubt it. I have never been charged a sales tax on bullion that I bought at past coin shows in Tennessee.
This coin show continues tomorrow and the last day is Sunday. I plan to go back to the show tomorrow to have better luck at finding silver art bars. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for me.
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a '70's silver art bar expert but I try my best to play one on the Internet.
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I also checked out the Silvertowne dealer table and talked to a dealer if they received any old 1-oz silver art bars and he mentioned that they did not receive any old silver art bars in their melt buckets from the time that I left yesterday (I left there at 2PM yesterday). However, I did see some selling at the Silvertowne dealer table but it was mainly silver dollars that some customers wanted to sell. A majority of whatever silver selling that I saw occur at this show during the two days that I attended occurred at two main dealer tables and the main type of silver that was sold was silver dollars, junk silver, and scrap silver (i.e. sterling silverware).
Personally for me, despite just buying only one silver art bar, today was a better day than yesterday because the bar that I bought was a good deal on a relative basis. Overall, it was a disappointing coin show for me IMO because the silver art bar pickings were very slim this year. This observation reflects what I and other silver art bar collectors that I know have been saying and that is that old 1-oz '70's silver art bars (with the exception of holiday-themed '70's bars) are very hard to find at .999 generic silver prices.
The 3rd (and last) day of the show is tomorrow. I have not decided whether or not I am going to go on the last day but I will make a final decision tonight. If I decide to go to tomorrow, it will be to "splurge" on one of those high premium rare silver art bars that I saw at an art bar dealers table.
<< <i>Great report thank you. You mentioned things "selling for", but were they really selling or just dealer asking prices? >>
Thanks for asking. I meant to say that those were the prices that the dealer was asking for. Some of the high-premium gold and silver coins were not selling at those prices because they are still sitting there from yesterday.