Fake 50 oz Englehard Bar came in today!!

jdimmick

Today , while I was hanging out over at the Flea market coin shop (owners are friends of mine and customers as well) , a lady (I mean a fox/drop dead gorgeous) came in with an Englehard 50 oz bar to sell, one of the shop guys was getting ready to price it when something caught my eye. The Engraving of the word Englehard and weight amount did not look quite right, something seemed a little off. I told them to be careful and we went and got a scale, the weight was off by about 5 oz on top of that. It was wrapped in a kind of plastic sealing. I asked her where she got it and she said a dealer in Missouri I believe. I told the flea market guys its a bad fake bar and pass.

After she left , one of the other customers in the store happen to notice that the lady was with a another guy , who walked on by the shop entrance and ducked around the corne out of sightr. Plus the fact that her expression when we told her it was fake was expressionless, we figured they were trying to scam somebody.

I believe had I not been there these guys would have loss a great deal of $, as I believe they would have bought it. This bar would have fooled quite a few people based on looks alone. (that would have been a substantial loss for them too) I called all the other dealers in town I know , to inform them to be careful if they come in. I wish I had got a pic of the bar (the girl too, she was a looker) to post on here but didn't think about it at the time

JIm

mkman123

perhaps part of her was fake too hahaha

Barndog

Good catch

OnlyGoldIsMoney

Was it an extruded bar as opposed to poured?

derryb

Yep, probably peddling fake rounds as well.

CaptHenway

What region was this?

VanHalen

Nice catch. Nothing surprises me. I wonder who will buy that bar?

piecesofme

The bar was from Missouri (you think) but where did this attempted fraud take place?

mariner67

Every week there are more and more reports of "new fakes".
Why screw around?
This is making me start to ONLY buy US minted bullion and to carefully check out/calibrate/weigh/measure etc etc every piece I come in contact with.
Good luck to all here (myself included) who hold various other bars, rounds, etc.
As always, JMHO
Best

carew4me

<< <i>Every week there are more and more reports of "new fakes".
Why screw around?
This is making me start to ONLY buy US minted bullion and to carefully check out/calibrate/weigh/measure etc etc every piece I come in contact with.
Good luck to all here (myself included) who hold various other bars, rounds, etc.
As always, JMHO
Best >>



Agreed.

Engelhards of all types are being faked.

I am in the process of selling all E and JM stuff.

all were weighed and verified and are authentic, I just don't want the grief.

Yes, SAEs are also being faked but at least you get the Gov on it, protecting your asset.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

We have been seeing examples of fake JM poured bars on this forum.

Has anyone seen fake Engelhard poured bars?

mkman123

I dont think anyone has posted JM or engelhard pours that are 10 oz and less. Its always been larger bars correct? someone lmk!

piecesofme

I'd really like to know where this happened. I have a friend that purchased a 50 Engelhard last week and I'd like to make him aware of this if it's remotely the same region as where he purchased it. He purchased it from a woman too as was the case in this reported scam.

mkman123

besides weighing it, there was no way to tell? The reason I ask is that some B&M don't weight, they look at the bar and then hand out money...........basically the bar could have fooled people or was it obviously weird and something was funky about it?

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>I'd really like to know where this happened. I have a friend that purchased a 50 Engelhard last week and I'd like to make him aware of this if it's remotely the same region as where he purchased it. He purchased it from a woman too as was the case in this reported scam. >>




Rich, did your friend purchase a poured or extruded 50 oz Engelhard?

Timbuk3

Thanks for the heads-up !!!

johnny9434

nice catch. there sure is a lot of bogus stuff going on these days.

piecesofme

Rich, did your friend purchase a poured or extruded 50 oz Engelhard?

poured

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>Rich, did your friend purchase a poured or extruded 50 oz Engelhard?

poured >>




OK - now we just need to know if the bar referenced by the OP was poured or extruded.

jdimmick

Too answer a few questions:

Fayetteville, North Carolina , (the lady said she bought it in Missouri, but I am sure they knowingly tried to pass it , so there is really no telling where she got it) However, I was told today by one of the other shops that some have been coming back in from oversea's. We are a military town.

Would have fooled a lot of people, the flea market dealers are not dummies, but they did not have any idea until I spoke up that something was wrong. If they would have weighed it, they would have, but being wrapped in plastic, I don't know if the thought even crossed their mind to be honest. I have looked at enough bars over the years that I thought the engraved text on the bar, just did seem not quite right.
(Very similar to the PCGS fake slabs and coins that went around a while back) Down at the coin club in Pinehurst last year, one of the members had bought a 92-cc PCGS-63 Morgan from E-bay, they pass it around the room for show and tell, every one in the room said "oh that's nice" except Me and fellow long time recently deceased dealer Jim Sazma. Jim and I were the only ones who picked up on the coin not being right, all the rest would have bought it easily.

Bar was extruded!

CaptHenway

On my old dealer-to-dealer network, a station in Illinois reported today that some shop had gotten stuck with a fake OPM 100 ounce bar with a fake certificate.

LogPotato

So this makes me wonder, how are online bullion sites like Provident and APMEX going to differentiate between the fakes? I'd like to get into buying more bars, but the recent wave of fake bars are making me nervous.

mariner67

<< <i>On my old dealer-to-dealer network, a station in Illinois reported today that some shop had gotten stuck with a fake OPM 100 ounce bar with a fake certificate. >>



Wow!
The OPM .9999 gold bar is currently the top seller at Provident!
The above certainly makes buying one of these bargins a bit more risky.

sebrown

<< <i>So this makes me wonder, how are online bullion sites like Provident and APMEX going to differentiate between the fakes? I'd like to get into buying more bars, but the recent wave of fake bars are making me nervous. >>



So is there a void that needs to be filled in the certified "genuine" bar market? PCGS perhaps? Would be fairly profitable for the company I believe. No need to hire graders to "grade" a bar - just perform a few tests and certify it as genuine or not. I see they do something similar for Silver American Eagles. I for one would feel more secure in buying something I know to be genuine.....well at least until these new certified encapsulated bars are counterfeited.

edited to add: In retrospect, it might not be too cost effective. On the other hand, at least you and your potential buyer would both know the item to be genuine so maybe the certification premium can be passed along.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

I wonder how many of these fake extruded Engelhard bars already are or will show up on ebay. Poor pictures and a bargain price will entice the ill informed.

FWIW, 50 ounce extruded Engelhard bars are uncommon in comparison to their 100 ounce counterparts. Since most people have not seen them, any variation in dimensions between genuine and fake might be overlooked. Most of us see the 100 ounce bars far more often.

EagleEye

It is a good idea to check every roll of silver eagles carefully. The crooks are salting them with fakes.

CaptHenway

It is good to check everything, period!

Protect yourself.