WOW-- PCGS 2 year Vermont Immune Columbia price appreciation

ambro51

If they were not so Incredibly rare, these seem to be a very solid coin to own. PCGS No Description Desig Grade Today's
Price Price as of
2 years ago Gain % Change
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 10 15,000 7,500 7,500 100.00%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 8 11,500 6,000 5,500 91.67%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 25 65,000 35,000 30,000 85.71%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 12 18,500 10,000 8,500 85.00%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 3 4,000 2,250 1,750 77.78%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 15 22,000 12,500 9,500 76.00%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 6 7,000 4,000 3,000 75.00%
536 1785 Vermont Immune Columbia, BN MS BN 4 5,200 3,000 2,200 73.36%


Not everyone's cup of tea....Vermont Ryder 1 immune Columbia VG8. (stacks bowers grade)

LanceNewmanOCC

.
that is a good lookin' piece of copper
.

CoinRaritiesOnline

The price appreciation you have indicated reflects the fact that the original price guide figures were not accurate, not that these have skyrocketed in the last 2 years.

I know this because I am the one who wrote the current figures.

I would caution you, however, that the price guide figures are for PCGS graded coins, and PCGS has historically been very tough on this type. This one, for example, graded AG3:

lcoopie

I guess looks can be deceiving when it comes to old coins

Boosibri

<< <i>The price appreciation you have indicated reflects the fact that the original price guide figures were not accurate, not that these have skyrocketed in the last 2 years.

I know this because I am the one who wrote the current figures. >>





That's about as definitive of an answer as you will ever receive.

ambro51

It's a beautiful and rarely seen reverse. Out of all its uses, even though a rare piece, the Vermont pairing and the CEORCIVS in SB are the only two types somewhat available. They are mostly all ugly, badly centered on crude planchets nearly 1/4 inch too small for the reverse die. Struck toward the end of Machins Mills production in mid 1789, these pieces still circulated heavily. Weights fluctuated wildly from about 90 grains to 120 or so. The first strikings from this die ate beautiful Eventually it weakens and buckles.....the Gold striking , a unique piece, was traded to the US Mint for a 1804 Dollar. John L Roper had an outstanding collection of ths silver and copper strikings. There is incredible yet mostly unknown history behind the die and a legacy of several rare and interesting coins. I think as more collectors learn,collect and buy colonials the Vermont immune Columbia will outdistance a lot of other colonials. It is a Type coin, a Machins Mill issue, a Vermont and an immune Columbia. Each area has specialists which want one. It's the only coin listed twice in the Redbook. If ever you want to win a bet at a coin club meeting, spring that on them

DeliaBug

I've never understood the fascination with trying to pigeon hole and assign prices to extremely rare and/or thinly traded pieces. If I'm looking at the correct page, the last one sold was in 2003 from Ford. A decade without an auction appearance? Anyone who is wanting one of these and uses a price guide will most likely never obtain one. Especially if you're getting one crack a decade at it.

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>I've never understood the fascination with trying to pigeon hole and assign prices to extremely rare and/or thinly traded pieces. If I'm looking at the correct page, the last one sold was in 2003 from Ford. A decade without an auction appearance? Anyone who is wanting one of these and uses a price guide will most likely never obtain one. Especially if you're getting one crack a decade at it. >>



That information is not correct. There have been several in major auctions in the last 2 years, though all were raw, as well as 1 on Ebay and several private transactions.

This issue is R-5+, so it is not exactly extremely rare (at least by colonial standards).

RYK

If the one CRO posted is AG-3, the example in the OP hovers around zero.

Are there any examples with a little more meat on the bones?

DeliaBug

<< <i>

<< <i>I've never understood the fascination with trying to pigeon hole and assign prices to extremely rare and/or thinly traded pieces. If I'm looking at the correct page, the last one sold was in 2003 from Ford. A decade without an auction appearance? Anyone who is wanting one of these and uses a price guide will most likely never obtain one. Especially if you're getting one crack a decade at it. >>



That information is not correct. There have been several in major auctions in the last 2 years, though all were raw, as well as 1 on Ebay and several private transactions.

This issue is R-5+, so it is not exactly extremely rare (at least by colonial standards). >>



Thank you John.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>Not everyone's cup of tea....Vermont Ryder 1 immune Columbia VG8. (stacks bowers grade) >>


So PCGS graded the coin that CRO posted as AG03.

Ambro - What grade did PCGS give your coin?

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>If the one CRO posted is AG-3, the example in the OP hovers around zero.

Are there any examples with a little more meat on the bones? >>



This one sold in Ford in 2003, later graded VF25 at PCGS, is also the Redbook plate coin, and is about as nice as you'll find for the issue:

MidLifeCrisis

I like the Ford coin.

Justacommeman

<< <i>

<< <i>The price appreciation you have indicated reflects the fact that the original price guide figures were not accurate, not that these have skyrocketed in the last 2 years.

I know this because I am the one who wrote the current figures. >>





That's about as definitive of an answer as you will ever receive. >>



He does it for a living and we are lucky he shares his knowledge here. The fact that he tells it like it is with years of experience in this niche market is just icing on the cake. I still don't own a Colonial but listening and watching John has wetted my appetite. MJ

ambro51

There were two Ryder 1s in the Ford 2003 sale, the coin here was number two to a more detailed but heavier flawed example. Both were Hillyer Ryder's coins and when hi illustrated his work used the obverse of the other, along with this reverse. The other coin was all broken up and poorly struck to the center of the reverse figures body. BTW I think CROs coin is at least F12 given the state of preservation of the strongly struck letters OMBIA on the reverse and the degree of wear they show going in fr the rim. It's a really nice coin.

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>There were two Ryder 1s in the Ford 2003 sale, the coin here was number two to a more detailed but heavier flawed example. Both were Hillyer Ryder's coins and when hi illustrated his work used the obverse of the other, along with this reverse. The other coin was all broken up and poorly struck to the center of the reverse figures body. >>



The first Ford coin was not fully struck up in the centers revealing the texture of the original planchet. It brought $18,400 in the Ford sale if memory serves, the one above brought $27,600. Both were way up there in the ryder-1 census.



<< <i>BTW I think CROs coin is at least F12 given the state of preservation of the strongly struck letters OMBIA on the reverse and the degree of wear they show going in fr the rim. It's a really nice coin. >>



I bought it raw a few years ago and thought it was VG10 / F12, with excellent color and nice surfaces, however it has clearly been heavily net-graded for the reverse scratch which is 'robust'. Like I said, PCGS is tough on these.

Sonorandesertrat

"...I still don't own a Colonial but listening and watching John has wetted my appetite. MJ"




I have been buying pertinent books and auction catalogs to assist me in making up my mind.
I recently also bought a complete set of the C4 Newsletter, and am thinking about getting a Colonial Newsletter set too.
Now I just have to read all this stuff.

MidLifeCrisis

Get Will Nipper's book "In Yankee Doodle's Pocket".

It will make you want to collect colonials.

Sonorandesertrat

I already have Nipper's book---it's a good read.

Are the Rosa Americana, Ltd. auction catalogs worth getting?

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>I already have Nipper's book---it's a good read.

Are the Rosa Americana, Ltd. auction catalogs worth getting? >>


I don't know about Rosa Americana Ltd. Perhaps CRO does.

But here's a list of pedigrees to know for colonials. I recommend getting as many of these catalogs as you can.

Garrett
Norweb
Eliasberg
Gilbert Steinberg
Herbert Oechsner
John Ford
FCC Boyd
Hillyer Ryder
Allison Jackman
Colonel James Ellsworth
George Parsons
Benson
John Roper
Richard Picker
Pittman
Virgil Brand
Dr. Thomas Hall
Frederick B. Taylor
Jacob Spiro
Harold Bareford
George H. Earle
Sylvester Crosby
Lorin Parmelee
Charles Ira Bushnell
Peter Gschwend
Joseph Mickley
Edward Maris
Harlan Smith
John G. Mills
John Story Jenks
Dr. Robert I. Hinkley
T. James Clarke
Waldo Newcomer
Carl Wurtzbach
W.S. Lincoln
Robert A. Vlack (plate coins for his books)
Richard Winsor
Walter Breen (plate coins for his books)
James A. Stack
Hain
J. Wiley Aulick
James Watt Jr.
John Griffee
Loye Lauder - 1983 Doyle Galleries sale (Ms. Loye Lauder was an heir to the Lauder cosmetics fortune who built a collection of colonials that was quite complete, with all sorts of major rarities and condition census pieces.)
Frontenac – This sale contained duplicates from the Ford collection