<< <i>This is the kind of collection that should have gone secure plus. >>
Why? >>
I really can not think of one reason either. Secure Plus has generated a very luke warm response since inception IMO. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Clearly, the consignor and his advisors believed that sending the coins to NGC would maximize their return. >>
The NGC "envelope" certainly did not "harm" the hammer prices for coins from the Millennia Collection. With plenty of marketing (hype), etc. the PRs will probably be through the roof. Some will, no doubt, be buried in some Newman coins for awhile, but the wise will pick and choose to great effect......poker game, a-comin'.
<< <i>By my (unscientific) sampling data more than 60% of the coins have already CACed. Not sure why anyone with a CACed coin would find it in his interest (to say nothing of the risk) to try to cross it. If others have a different judgment, please chime in. >>
I've already gone through the auction process with my cac'd NGC type coins (PF/MS65-67). The prices realized were less than unstickered PCGS. In hindsight, I should have cracked all the coins and sent them fresh to PCGS. I had tried numerous times to cross some of these coins...some as often as 4X. The fact that even stickered NGC coins often bring far less than they should, the market risk to cross them or even crack them is at the lowest levels since the TPG's started. The fact that NGC might be getting stickers at a 60% rate is irrelevant as the coins just bring 10-30% less than PCGS at auction. It don't think a 100% stickering rate would change that right away considering that there are still >10 MILL legacy coins still out there from the 1987-2008 market. No, this is not the first time coins in NGC holders will have been sold. But from 1998-2008 NGC coins have fetched 5-15% less than PCGS. And since 2009-2013 they have been fetching 10-30% less. NGC coins will continue to be slabbed and sold. They will sell for approx what their equivalent PCGS grades are thought to be. This 10-30% arbitrage will go to the sharp coin dealers. A MS68 Humbert will bring a lot of money. A PCGS MS68 would bring a ton more.
Actually, when you get right down to it, all of Newman is raw and conveniently encapsulated in NGC holders.
Colonel Jessup! My oh my!
If this were the 1989-1990 where coin dealers drove the prices, then leaving the Newman coins raw just might bring stronger prices as dealer's fight to "dream" a higher grade. But this is a different era where demand is now world wide. Big money now exists far beyond coin dealers. And that big money is smart enough to know what holders, grades, stickers, etc. will maximize their potential. That big money wouldn't even participate in a raw Newman coin sale. They'd tell the big dealers to buy what they want, get them slabbed, and them come talk to them. Now the dealers are taking all the risk. Better to get the grades all worked out ahead of time so buyers can assume the risk, and dealers can get their sure 5% commish. Yeah, I doubt collectors will care about xfering these fresh newps into PCGS holders. But when that eventual time comes to sell, that issue will arise again...assuming the current TPG structure is still around. At age 102, how much input did Eric Newman have into the decision of how his coins would be handled? We can only conjecture.
When one of numismatics most respected and knowledgeable scholars picks a grading service, who am I to question that decision. What does he know that I don't is what I ask myself. What did Queller know? It does raise questions, at least it does for me.
Queller had a very very large pattern collection (as Lemus), and Newman has über rarities in that series as well. That's two-for-two with large old time pattern sales going ATS. PCGS did Husack, Naftzger and Holmes. All large cent sales. Am I seeing a pattern here?
Armchair quarterback statements like "This is the kind of collection that should have gone secure plus." unless backed up with "I too just submitted a large multimillion dollar collection for grading, I can speak to this, and here is why I chose X", are irrelevant.
All I can say with certainty is that I will not be crossing anything I get from the Newman sale.
RR, C'mon, allow me just a little hyperbole in service of making a point. I would not care what holder an 1852 Humbert $10 was in, regardless of its current NGC MS68. I could only ooh, ahh, gulp and wonder whatever possible reference point could I possibly imagine that would help me make a stab at value I expect many conundrums such as this.
I've known Stuart Levine for almost 35 years. He already has deep knowledge in Colonial coins and currency, Early US coins of all metals and varieties, Americana, documents, World, etc., and probably other of many of the areas in which Mr Newman collected.
Plus every major auctioneer and dealer in the US, many in Europe, and many collectors in these areas. He bought complete 1908, 1909 and 1914 gold proof sets from me at the 1985 ANA and, not from me, bought a really big hoard of 1831 Halves much later. I'm pretty sure he'd suck at Franklin singles by date, but could move ten bags for you with a phone call. Washington Funeral Medal and slabbed 64 Wreath with another phone call or two, or an Arms of California, or... He has range
Stuart's seen more than enough rackets run in this business, and every well-managed showcase collection dispersed, to well protect and well promote the Educational Foundation's interests.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
<< <i>This is the kind of collection that should have gone secure plus. >>
Why?
<< <i>
<< <i>This is the kind of collection that should have gone secure plus. >>
Why? >>
I really can not think of one reason either. Secure Plus has generated a very luke warm response since inception IMO. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Clearly, the consignor and his advisors believed that sending the coins to NGC would maximize their return. >>
The NGC "envelope" certainly did not "harm" the hammer prices for coins from the Millennia Collection. With plenty of marketing (hype), etc. the PRs will probably be through the roof. Some will, no doubt, be buried in some Newman coins for awhile, but the wise will pick and choose to great effect......poker game, a-comin'.
<< <i>By my (unscientific) sampling data more than 60% of the coins have already CACed. Not sure why anyone with a CACed coin would find it in his interest (to say nothing of the risk) to try to cross it. If others have a different judgment, please chime in. >>
I've already gone through the auction process with my cac'd NGC type coins (PF/MS65-67). The prices realized were less than unstickered PCGS. In hindsight, I should have cracked all the coins and sent them fresh to PCGS. I had tried numerous times to cross some of these coins...some as often as 4X. The fact that even stickered NGC coins often bring far less than they should, the market risk to cross them or even crack them is at the lowest levels since the TPG's started. The fact that NGC might be getting stickers at a 60% rate is irrelevant as the coins just bring 10-30% less than PCGS at auction. It don't think a 100% stickering rate would change that right away considering that there are still >10 MILL legacy coins still out there from the 1987-2008 market. No, this is not the first time coins in NGC holders will have been sold. But from 1998-2008 NGC coins have fetched 5-15% less than PCGS. And since 2009-2013 they have been fetching 10-30% less. NGC coins will continue to be slabbed and sold. They will sell for approx what their equivalent PCGS grades are thought to be. This 10-30% arbitrage will go to the sharp coin dealers. A MS68 Humbert will bring a lot of money. A PCGS MS68 would bring a ton more.
Actually, when you get right down to it, all of Newman is raw and conveniently encapsulated in NGC holders.
Colonel Jessup! My oh my!
If this were the 1989-1990 where coin dealers drove the prices, then leaving the Newman coins raw just might bring stronger prices as dealer's fight to "dream" a higher grade. But this is a different era where demand is now world wide. Big money now exists far beyond coin dealers. And that big money is smart enough to know what holders, grades, stickers, etc. will maximize their potential. That big money wouldn't even participate in a raw Newman coin sale. They'd tell the big dealers to buy what they want, get them slabbed, and them come talk to them. Now the dealers are taking all the risk. Better to get the grades all worked out ahead of time so buyers can assume the risk, and dealers can get their sure 5% commish. Yeah, I doubt collectors will care about xfering these fresh newps into PCGS holders. But when that eventual time comes to sell, that issue will arise again...assuming the current TPG structure is still around. At age 102, how much input did Eric Newman have into the decision of how his coins would be handled? We can only conjecture.
Queller had a very very large pattern collection (as Lemus), and Newman has über rarities in that series as well. That's two-for-two with large old time pattern sales going ATS. PCGS did Husack, Naftzger and Holmes. All large cent sales. Am I seeing a pattern here?
Armchair quarterback statements like "This is the kind of collection that should have gone secure plus." unless backed up with "I too just submitted a large multimillion dollar collection for grading, I can speak to this, and here is why I chose X", are irrelevant.
All I can say with certainty is that I will not be crossing anything I get from the Newman sale.
I've known Stuart Levine for almost 35 years. He already has deep knowledge in Colonial coins and currency, Early US coins of all metals and varieties, Americana, documents, World, etc., and probably other of many of the areas in which Mr Newman collected.
Plus every major auctioneer and dealer in the US, many in Europe, and many collectors in these areas. He bought complete 1908, 1909 and 1914 gold proof sets from me at the 1985 ANA and, not from me, bought a really big hoard of 1831 Halves much later. I'm pretty sure he'd suck at Franklin singles by date, but could move ten bags for you with a phone call. Washington Funeral Medal and slabbed 64 Wreath with another phone call or two, or an Arms of California, or... He has range
Stuart's seen more than enough rackets run in this business, and every well-managed showcase collection dispersed, to well protect and well promote the Educational Foundation's interests.
DeliaBug: <<Queller had a very very large pattern collection (as Lemus), and Newman has über rarities in that series as well. >>
Yes
The Fabulous Eric Newman Collection -†‬Part†‬2: Patterns
Queller Collection of Coin Patterns