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Is this Bar Cent Genuine ? (not my coin)

ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
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  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    No
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No way, Jose!
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    Hmm, I dunno it seems to match this photo and description except for the buttery milk chocolate color, of course.

    I even counted the no. of bars (both have 13). What looks off to you guys?

    edited: The rim does seem to be raised on the real one, whereas this example seems to have a more worn rim yet the center monogram seems raised (so, basically, uneven wear?)

    also, from the article: "All genuine examples have a small, thorn-like projection on the far right side of the bottom edge of the second bar from the top"
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    Well I don't see the "small, thorn-like projection" from the second bar so that's definitely a clue. The rims were the first thing I looked at, and seemed odd to me but I'm thinking there's something else you're seeing besides the rims.

    The color/toning, and gauges in the designs, I would attribute to handling over centuries. No?

    I still think the font matches nicely.
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    image
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,496 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Hmm, I dunno it seems to match this photo and description except for the buttery milk chocolate color, of course.

    I even counted the no. of bars (both have 13). What looks off to you guys?

    edited: The rim does seem to be raised on the real one, whereas this example seems to have a more worn rim yet the center monogram seems raised (so, basically, uneven wear?)

    also, from the article: "All genuine examples have a small, thorn-like projection on the far right side of the bottom edge of the second bar from the top" >>



    If you think you are seeing a match........open your eyes........your notimage >>




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  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't see the "small, thorn-like projection" from the second bar >>

    Dunno about you, but I see it.
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I don't see the "small, thorn-like projection" from the second bar >>

    Dunno about you, but I see it. >>



    Me too. Plus the die crack in the central reverse.
    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    since those are scanned images and making the color way off, i'd too be interested to hear what specifically makes the coin in the op non-authentic.

    everything but the color looks like a match, although with such a simple coin, i'm sure the counterfeits/copies/restrikes are easy to make
    .

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  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I don't see the "small, thorn-like projection" from the second bar >>

    Dunno about you, but I see it. >>

    I also see what looks like a worn thorn. I say possible genuine
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is this Bar Cent Genuine ? (not my coin) >>



    My honest answer is that I cannot tell definitively from the images.

    It does not look like any of the many, many obvious copies I have seen.

    The spur on bar 2 seems to be present, as does the tiny crack in the central reverse. On the other hand, I don't like the shape of the denticles, but can't dismiss it entirely based on that.

    I would need to see it in hand to know.




    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it is fake, it sure would have fooled me...... would really like to hear the final decision on this one. Cheers, RickO
  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to say Genuine, or a really good fake. I know it isn't enough to prove it, but it matches all of the diagnostics and aligns perfectly on every aspect of my real bar cent when (crudely) Photoshopping the images together:

    image

    image
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  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It does appear to look similar imho which is really worth squat like the "Broad flan" Breen 1146 but I will wait for you and the other Early American experts to tell us what it is. Carry on! >>



    It's not an oval.
    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it's a fake or more likely a replica, someone took great pains to artificially age this coin. It sure looks old.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the patina looks fake to me. but that's all i can tell from the photo. even if that is true, it could still be a genuine coin. i just don't know.
  • johnnyjjohnnyj Posts: 19 ✭✭✭
    I agree with JA and others that the piece is inconclusive without evaluating it in hand. Diagnostics seems to be there, and agree that's its not a broad flan, but the fabric does look suspect, but not dismissible. Another that I've been pondering over in the same manner...
    Link. Apologies if the link did not come through properly.
  • daOnlyBGdaOnlyBG Posts: 1,060 ✭✭
    After looking pretty closely at the "bars" in SmEagle1795's comparison, I noticed that each bar's general thickness with respect to certain points matches up with the real deal. If there's a part of a bar that gradually thickens, it's there on the real one as well. As far as "shapes" or "details" go, I would guess that it's genuine. I don't have enough experience with coppers to tell if the surface material matches.

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  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭
    interesting.
    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭
    Real one on the Bay tonight... old fashioned auction
    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • Tdec1000Tdec1000 Posts: 3,851 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If it's a fake or more likely a replica, someone took great pains to artificially age this coin. It sure looks old. >>



    Looks cast to me... Especially where the U meets the S.
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  • johnnyjjohnnyj Posts: 19 ✭✭✭
    Cast was my thought...
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The owner is a dealer in Canada. This coin was in a bag of 75 or so pieces he bought.. An estate from an old man in Canada. He did clean it somewhat to try to determine its authenticity. I told him do NOT sell that coin without submitting it to PCGS or NGC. I agree that it's genuine as too many diagnostic features are present. ~~~~~~~~~a pretty good find but let me assure you one of the other tokens in the bag, the one I bought.....trumps this one. image
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ill go with no as well, jmo
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Real one on the Bay tonight... old fashioned auction >>



    Are you sure?
    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Must be more Bar Cents out there than thought
  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Real one on the Bay tonight... old fashioned auction >>



    Are you sure? >>



    It looks ok, although the long sob story and the no return make me hesitant
    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • coachbedfordcoachbedford Posts: 189
    Just because there's a lot of reproductions doesn't mean SOME aren't genuine! I vote that this one has a shot.
  • DolanDolan Posts: 129


    << <i>Just because there's a lot of reproductions doesn't mean SOME aren't genuine! I vote that this one has a shot. >>


    image
    Regards,
    Dolan

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