<< <i>Looks like NNC's Website has not changed in over 3 years......how do they stay in business? >>
multi-million dollar ventures have operated out of single and double rooms (small) MANY times and plenty are doing it today. as for the stuff being sold. no comment. .
Yep, me too. I think we're right. Too many problem coins won at major auctions appear on Ebay for sale by him in one of his slabs with a "problem free" grade within weeks of the major auction sale. No way that can happen unless you're slabbing them in house...
I have read several posts about people resubmitting a coin several times to the major grading services to get it in a problem free holder (I did this myself on a uncirculated Morgan coin PCGS listed as having altered surfaces on the first grading??? I sent it back a second time and it graded MS64).
Does he slab coins with obvious problems or just coins that might grade as problem free after more than one submisson to a major grading company?
I just remembered awhile back I bought a NNC 1888-o MS60 coin that I crossed to PCGS as AU50.
Realistically that Proof Gold Dollar was sold at Stacks about 1.5 years ago (August of 2011) ... Given how fast these large dealers turn their coins, I'd say the chances that centsles was the original buyer in 2011 are pretty close to zero. JMHO.
<< <i>I don't think anyone is fooled. The coins are what they are and they mostly sell for what they are really worth. >>
I'm not so sure that is the case. While I don't follow his auctions, he does sell Canadian coins that show up in my searches. At times his overgraded and/or problem dreck sell at CCN Trends for the grade he assigned. AFAIK centsles is NNC.
A few years back i bought a few proof indian cents from him, all crossed at the same grade (63) except one. It went from a 63 to a 64. I am not saying he is a sham as he may very well be. The 3 proofs i bought were bought for around 125 bucks each.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I have a feeling that in most cases, he doesn't slab coins with obvious problems without mentioning it on the holder, but just coins that have questionable problems that might grade as problem free after more than one submisson to a major grading company.
I may send some of my questionable problem coins to him for grading because of the low cost and to get the coins in the protection of a holder.
Some of David Hall's early grading stuff is still around and I would say, no, he didn't have this issue. As to whether he CAN grade, I say lots of people CAN who choose to not do so accurately for various reasons...you know he saw the scratch on that one item.
Well, I surely think this guy can grade. Back when I did such things, I used to do a search on his auctions using the work "original". Got some nice coins that way. f he called it original, it was. His use of that word diminished, in fact his descriptions have diminished altogether.
<< <i>Well, I surely think this guy can grade. Back when I did such things, I used to do a search on his auctions using the work "original". Got some nice coins that way. f he called it original, it was. His use of that word diminished, in fact his descriptions have diminished altogether. >>
I recall hearing the owner of NNC/Centsles won the PCGS grading contest one year. Not sure if that is true, but I do recall hearing it.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
From what I see of centsles' coins on ebay, his NNC grading is, at worst, deceptive and ethically challenged and, at best, meaningless. It's fine for those dealers and expert collectors who can see through the atrocious grading, but I feel for the novice trying to buy coins from him.
I'm sure he's doing well with his crackout system, but must have a slew of unhappy customers and, from what I can tell, is doing nothing but a major disservice to the hobby.
<< <i>I don't think anyone is fooled. The coins are what they are and they mostly sell for what they are really worth. >>
Of course some people are fooled, or else this guy wouldn't have been doing this for the past 5 years or longer. You could say this is the same stuff that was going on in the 1960's to 1985 period before slabs became the norm. And don't kid yourself that even back then the best graders/dealers weren't also playing the "sell crap" for "big money" game. Some played it more seriously than others Centsles would have had a field day in the 1970's.
It's one thing to try your own coin with a minor problem until it finally grades in a non-genuine holder. It's quite another to consistently buy non-genuine and net graded coins only to place them in your own "problem-free" holders. It's also quite common that such a dealer grades (or prices) accurately when working with other dealers who know the story. They can avoid the land mines and pay appropriately. And if the guy gets some real problem-free coins along the way, they can sell those for strong money to seasoned collectors and dealers. But, we all know who ends up with the dreck. And this is why you may often hear Dealer X or Collector Y say, "I've never had a problem with that guy...have gotten some good deals." No surprise there. It still doesn't make the seller a saint.
I would guess that the majority of these coins would grade lower or would not grade with NGC or with PCGS. I believe that NNC does not follow PCGS's or NGC's grading standards. I also don't think NNC follows ANA's grading standards. NNC set's its own standard and follows that. From my perspective, it is substantially more liberal than the major TPGs' or the ANA's. This is usually reflected in the price realized. It appears somewhat similar to Accugrade in that the company sets its own grading standard, acknowledges that it is entirely subjective, doesn't publish it, and disclaims any responsibility or warranty for it. Haven't seen an Accugrade coin in quite a while, but I still see NNC being sold with Centles. BTW, Centles used to use Accugrade, but stopped a while back....but that is a story for another thread.
Over 10 years ago; I bought just two NNC graded coins.
One was a 1932-S Washington that was graded NNC 64. It looked GOOD, until years later I noticed a SCRATCH on the reverse. I have seen simarilar marks on PCGS/NGC graded coins, so I am not sure if it would have graded at a major service or not. I sold it a year or two ago and I broke even.
The other coin was a 1811 CBH graded NNC MS 60----it was a CLEANED AU piece. It had a NOTICEABLE dig or gouge in the stars on the obverse. I walked it around a major show, until I found a buyer who didn't turn his nose up at it. I actually made about $200 on that deal.
Back around this same time period 10+ years ago I bid on a 1918 D Walker. It was a medium to darker colored coin but it had a SHARP thumb for this issue. I think it was graded MS 63 or 64? I don't remember. The auction was set to end in less than a minute and the high bid was only 200 Bucks. I threw in an ABSURD snipe bid of around 1200 and THANKFULLY was STILL OUTBID, as the current bidder's max was HIGHER than that!! I have always been GLAD that I DID NOT win that piece!!!
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
Centsles is a top grader. He's not going to leave any significant money on the table with that 89-cc. Consider any upside potential to be "minimal." If there was decent leverage to the upside he would have already tried the coin a number of times. One bidder put in 40 bids and ran the coin up from $410 to $6600. What are the odds that is a real money bidder?
Goldbully
Posts: 16,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
<< <i>Looks like NNC's Website has not changed in over 3 years......how do they stay in business? >>
multi-million dollar ventures have operated out of single and double rooms (small) MANY times and plenty are doing it today.
as for the stuff being sold. no comment.
.
<< <i>I always thought he was NNC >>
Yep, me too. I think we're right. Too many problem coins won at major auctions appear on Ebay for sale by him in one of his slabs with a "problem free" grade within weeks of the major auction sale. No way that can happen unless you're slabbing them in house...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>I always thought he was NNC >>
This. Keep in mind he has a few alts on ebay.
<< <i>I always thought he was NNC >>
Me, too.
PL
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
1. 1887 $1 gold NNC PR65 CAMEO This coin was Cracked-out of an NGC Proof details-scratched holder:
1887 $1 gold NGC PR-scratched
2. 1844-d $5 gold NNC AU58 (1844-d $5 gold NNC AU58) This coin was Cracked-out of an NGC XF details-cleaned holder:
1844-d $5 gold NGC XF-cleaned
<< <i>Yes, centsles IS NNC. And he is an accomplished crack-out artist on ebay:
1. 1887 $1 gold NNC PR65 CAMEO This coin was Cracked-out of an NGC Proof details-scratched holder:
1887 $1 gold NGC PR-scratched
2. 1844-d $5 gold NNC AU58 (1844-d $5 gold NNC AU58) This coin was Cracked-out of an NGC XF details-cleaned holder:
1844-d $5 gold NGC XF-cleaned >>
that literally makes me want to vomit
.
continuously do this ???
Does he slab coins with obvious problems or just coins that might grade as problem free after more than one submisson to a major grading company?
I just remembered awhile back I bought a NNC 1888-o MS60 coin that I crossed to PCGS as AU50.
You tell me.....is there any circumstance you can envision where this coin would not be considered scratched:
scratched proof now in NNC PR65 CAMEO holder
for what they are really worth.
<< <i>I don't think anyone is fooled. The coins are what they are and they mostly sell for what they are really worth. >>
I'm not so sure that is the case.
While I don't follow his auctions, he does sell Canadian coins that show up in my searches.
At times his overgraded and/or problem dreck sell at CCN Trends for the grade he assigned.
AFAIK centsles is NNC.
This CEntsles guy should get in trouble for pulling this crpa
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>I am pretty sure he won the PCGS grading contest one year, the man knows how to grade. >>
Being able to grade properly only arms this scammer with confidence to scam.
<< <i>PL
omg i hope they dont mean plated
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I may send some of my questionable problem coins to him for grading because of the low cost and to get the coins in the protection of a holder.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Tom
link
<< <i>Here is a MS60 Morgan would this cross at that grade.
link >>
no way. A MS60 1884-S is a 6-$8,000 coin. If it could be in a PCGS holder it would already be there.
Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
<< <i>Well, I surely think this guy can grade. Back when I did such things, I used to do a search on his auctions using the work "original". Got some nice coins that way. f he called it original, it was. His use of that word diminished, in fact his descriptions have diminished altogether. >>
I recall hearing the owner of NNC/Centsles won the PCGS grading contest one year. Not sure if that is true, but I do recall hearing it.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I'm sure he's doing well with his crackout system, but must have a slew of unhappy customers and, from what I can tell, is doing nothing but a major disservice to the hobby.
<< <i>I don't think anyone is fooled. The coins are what they are and they mostly sell
for what they are really worth. >>
Of course some people are fooled, or else this guy wouldn't have been doing this for the past 5 years or longer. You could say this is the same stuff that was going on in the 1960's to 1985 period before slabs became the norm.
And don't kid yourself that even back then the best graders/dealers weren't also playing the "sell crap" for "big money" game. Some played it more seriously than others Centsles would have had a field day in the 1970's.
It's one thing to try your own coin with a minor problem until it finally grades in a non-genuine holder. It's quite another to consistently buy non-genuine and net graded coins only to place them in your own "problem-free" holders.
It's also quite common that such a dealer grades (or prices) accurately when working with other dealers who know the story. They can avoid the land mines and pay appropriately. And if the guy gets some real problem-free
coins along the way, they can sell those for strong money to seasoned collectors and dealers. But, we all know who ends up with the dreck. And this is why you may often hear Dealer X or Collector Y say, "I've never had a
problem with that guy...have gotten some good deals." No surprise there. It still doesn't make the seller a saint.
Tom
<< <i>This guy sells a lot of stuff almost 18000 items this year. How many of these items are overgraded or damaged coins in NNC holders. >>
Too many.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am pretty sure he won the PCGS grading contest one year, the man knows how to grade. >>
Being able to grade properly only arms this scammer with confidence to scam. >>
+1
.
<< <i>Text
I wonder what this 89-cc Morgan would grade at the major services, AU details "cleaned"? >>
You got 14 days to rush it through PCGS grading......looks like a worthwhile gamble to me.
edited to add: Are those obverse hits over the top to a typical PCGS grader?
If the coin is genuine, does its rarity negate those nasty hits?
#1: I ONLY buy my rare coins from centsles
Erik
One was a 1932-S Washington that was graded NNC 64. It looked GOOD, until years later I noticed a SCRATCH on the reverse. I have seen simarilar marks on PCGS/NGC graded coins, so I am not sure if it would have graded at a major service or not. I sold it a year or two ago and I broke even.
The other coin was a 1811 CBH graded NNC MS 60----it was a CLEANED AU piece. It had a NOTICEABLE dig or gouge in the stars on the obverse. I walked it around a major show, until I found a buyer who didn't turn his nose up at it. I actually made about $200 on that deal.
Back around this same time period 10+ years ago I bid on a 1918 D Walker. It was a medium to darker colored coin but it had a SHARP thumb for this issue. I think it was graded MS 63 or 64? I don't remember. The auction was set to end in less than a minute and the high bid was only 200 Bucks. I threw in an ABSURD snipe bid of around 1200 and THANKFULLY was STILL OUTBID, as the current bidder's max was HIGHER than that!! I have always been GLAD that I DID NOT win that piece!!!
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
the coin a number of times. One bidder put in 40 bids and ran the coin up from $410 to $6600. What are the odds that is a real money bidder?