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"Official" Thread for the "Top 100 Moderns" Registry Set
wondercoin
Posts: 16,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi everyone. This thread is intended for those who love collecting modern coins.
Yesterday, I got a call from Charles Morgan (from Coinweek). We have been "shooting the breeze" about moderns for the past couple weeks on the phone. He also writes articles for the PCGS "eZine" that go out to about 80,000 readers. He told me his next article is on modern coins (as was his last). Anyway, Charles also told me that the introduction to the Top 100 Moderns was a bit too "negative" for his tastes and really did not portray modern collecting in the great light it should be. I read it and tend to agree with him. I do not know who wrote that introduction and it really does not matter. Late last night, I rewrote the introduction and sent my proposed rewrite over to the "powers that be" at PCGS for their consideration. Maybe later this year, they will rewrite the introduction ... possibly using my proposed draft below.
More importantly, this is a thread to talk about the Top 100 Moderns registry set, and I hope that is precisely what happens here in the months and years ahead! I plan to bring up some questions regarding the composition of the set in some future postings here.
Wondercoin
MY PROPOSED REWRITE OF THE INTRODUCTION TO THE TOP 100 MODERNS SET:
Many people believe that the "Modern Coin" era began in America in 1965, the first year the U.S. Mint produced copper-nickel "clad" coins as a replacement for silver coins, ending an unbroken, 173-year tradition. At the time, many collectors believed this would be the death knell for coin collecting, as the coins would no longer have any intrinsic value. On top of that, as time went on, some collectors perceived the modern coinage as a vast desert of ultra-common, mundane and uninteresting coins. Many collectors simply decided not to seriously collect most U.S. coins dated after 1964. This resulted in a fascinating anomaly; since most collectors in the late 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were not even paying attention to the contemporary coins of their day, in many cases, the gems and superb gems were not "hunted down" and saved, as was the case with the silver (pre-1965) counterparts. This is why, for example, a 1969-P (clad) Washington Quarter in superb gem MS67 grade is as scarce today as nearly every silver Washington quarter (p,d,s) going back to 1934 with just a few exceptions! While the 1969-P Washington quarter is not currently part of this Top 100 list as that coin is still very common in the lower Uncirculated grades, other circulating coins with similar stories are represented on this initial list such as the 1972 Ty 2 Ike Dollar and some Memorial Lincoln cents. Reflecting back, it is clear that many of these coins from the late 1960's to the late 1990's were simply not saved or carefully preserved. Indeed, a healthy percentage of these fresh coins also found their way into Casino slot machines throughout the United States forever destroying the collectability of those pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, half dollars and dollars.
In addition to conditionally scarce and rare mint state circulating moderns, there are also a great number of unexpected treasures, many of which are extremely valuable, each brought about by a variety of circumstances: some were made in error, some are patterns (prototype issues), others are simply low-mintage items, and others are rare varieties. On top of that, the United States Mint's offering of special collector silver, gold and platinum coins beginning in 1982 has resulted in many super low mintage moderns throughout the years, especially in 2008 -2011 in the midst of our country's great recession.
Through all of the unexpected circumstances and events, the field of modern coin collecting turned out just as exciting and challenging as collecting the classic, pre-1965, coins. Certainly, there are many common modern coins (just as there are with the classics), but there are also plenty of rare ones. The following list is a presentation of the Top 100 Modern U.S. Coins as chosen by the PCGS modern coin research team in consultation with noted numismatic experts. The coins are ranked in order of importance, though this order was/is subject to great debate, especially among the Top 10. This is a work in process to be sure. The experts didn't always agree with exactly which coins should be included in this set, but we had a lot of fun selecting our Top 100 Modern Coins, and particularly the Top 10.
Perhaps the biggest argument was over the #1 coin, the 1964-D Peace Dollar. "How can the #1 Modern U.S. coin be one that is illegal to own?" several experts asked. "It was made before 1965," others remarked. However, the general consensus was that the 1964-D Peace Dollar was too important to exclude from the inaugural list and if one ever came onto the market (and the government permitted its sale), it would become one of the most valuable of all U.S. coins. That said, since that coin as well as the 1974 aluminum cent and the gold Sacagawea Dollars are likely either illegal to own or government property, the experts have recently agreed that these three coins will be replaced with three new coins later this year.
And, arguments aside, collectors will find numerous surprises and lots to get excited about in this compilation. Most of the coins are highly collectible, but within the reach of many collectors. Value collectors will appreciate the low cost of the numerous low-mintage coins in this listing. If these were "classic" pre-1965 coins, their value would be considerably higher, often by magnitudes, because of their scarcity.
Most of all, this is an enjoyable assortment of coins, offering diversity in design, challenge in hunting them down, and a lifetime of collecting fun. Even better, the Modern Coin era continues, and who knows what exciting rarities tomorrow will bring! Happy hunting!
****************************************************************************************************************************************
THE CURRENT INTRODUCTORY LANGUAGE TO THE TOP 100 MODERNS SET:
The Modern Coin era began in America in 1965, the first year the U.S. Mint produced copper-nickel "clad" coins as a replacement for silver coins, ending an unbroken, 173-year tradition. For many collectors, this was the death knell for collecting, as the coins would no longer have any intrinsic value and mintages would be huge. Collectors perceived the modern coinage as a vast desert of ultra-common, mundane, unattractive and boring coins.
A perfect melding of perception and reality occurred with the 50 States Quarters program, in which mass quantities of newly designed quarters flooded the market at the rate of five new designs a year. They are, and will be forever, common.
However, among modern coins there are a great number of unexpected treasures, many of which are extremely valuable, each brought about by a variety of circumstances: some were made in error, some are patterns (prototype issues), others are simply low-mintage items, and others are rare varieties.
Instead of being a wasteland, the field of modern coins is just as exciting and challenging as pre-1965 coins. Certainly, there are many common coins, but there are also plenty of rare items. The following list is a presentation of the Top 100 Modern U.S. Coins as chosen by the PCGS modern coin research team in consultation with noted numismatic experts. The coins are ranked in order of importance, though this order was/is subject to great debate, especially among the Top 10. Ownership has a lot to do with it; availability and/or collectibility has even more. We didn't always agree, but we had a lot of fun selecting our Top 100 Modern Coins, and particularly the Top 10.
Perhaps the biggest argument was over the #1 coin, the 1964-D Peace Dollar. "How can the #1 Modern U.S. coin be one that is illegal to own?" several experts asked. "It was made before 1965," others remarked. However, the general consensus was that the 1964-D Peace Dollar was too important to exclude and if one ever came onto the market (and the government permitted its sale), it would become one of the most valuable of all U.S. coins.
Arguments aside, collectors will find numerous surprises and lots to get excited about in this compilation. Most of the coins are highly collectible and within the reach of many collectors. Value collectors will appreciate the low cost of the numerous low-mintage coins in this listing. If these were "classic" pre-1965 coins, their value would be considerably higher, often by magnitudes, because of their scarcity.
Most of all, this is an enjoyable assortment of coins, offering diversity in design, challenge in hunting them down, and a lifetime of collecting fun. Even better, the Modern Coin era continues, and who knows what exciting coins tomorrow will bring!
Yesterday, I got a call from Charles Morgan (from Coinweek). We have been "shooting the breeze" about moderns for the past couple weeks on the phone. He also writes articles for the PCGS "eZine" that go out to about 80,000 readers. He told me his next article is on modern coins (as was his last). Anyway, Charles also told me that the introduction to the Top 100 Moderns was a bit too "negative" for his tastes and really did not portray modern collecting in the great light it should be. I read it and tend to agree with him. I do not know who wrote that introduction and it really does not matter. Late last night, I rewrote the introduction and sent my proposed rewrite over to the "powers that be" at PCGS for their consideration. Maybe later this year, they will rewrite the introduction ... possibly using my proposed draft below.
More importantly, this is a thread to talk about the Top 100 Moderns registry set, and I hope that is precisely what happens here in the months and years ahead! I plan to bring up some questions regarding the composition of the set in some future postings here.
Wondercoin
MY PROPOSED REWRITE OF THE INTRODUCTION TO THE TOP 100 MODERNS SET:
Many people believe that the "Modern Coin" era began in America in 1965, the first year the U.S. Mint produced copper-nickel "clad" coins as a replacement for silver coins, ending an unbroken, 173-year tradition. At the time, many collectors believed this would be the death knell for coin collecting, as the coins would no longer have any intrinsic value. On top of that, as time went on, some collectors perceived the modern coinage as a vast desert of ultra-common, mundane and uninteresting coins. Many collectors simply decided not to seriously collect most U.S. coins dated after 1964. This resulted in a fascinating anomaly; since most collectors in the late 1960's, 1970's and 1980's were not even paying attention to the contemporary coins of their day, in many cases, the gems and superb gems were not "hunted down" and saved, as was the case with the silver (pre-1965) counterparts. This is why, for example, a 1969-P (clad) Washington Quarter in superb gem MS67 grade is as scarce today as nearly every silver Washington quarter (p,d,s) going back to 1934 with just a few exceptions! While the 1969-P Washington quarter is not currently part of this Top 100 list as that coin is still very common in the lower Uncirculated grades, other circulating coins with similar stories are represented on this initial list such as the 1972 Ty 2 Ike Dollar and some Memorial Lincoln cents. Reflecting back, it is clear that many of these coins from the late 1960's to the late 1990's were simply not saved or carefully preserved. Indeed, a healthy percentage of these fresh coins also found their way into Casino slot machines throughout the United States forever destroying the collectability of those pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters, half dollars and dollars.
In addition to conditionally scarce and rare mint state circulating moderns, there are also a great number of unexpected treasures, many of which are extremely valuable, each brought about by a variety of circumstances: some were made in error, some are patterns (prototype issues), others are simply low-mintage items, and others are rare varieties. On top of that, the United States Mint's offering of special collector silver, gold and platinum coins beginning in 1982 has resulted in many super low mintage moderns throughout the years, especially in 2008 -2011 in the midst of our country's great recession.
Through all of the unexpected circumstances and events, the field of modern coin collecting turned out just as exciting and challenging as collecting the classic, pre-1965, coins. Certainly, there are many common modern coins (just as there are with the classics), but there are also plenty of rare ones. The following list is a presentation of the Top 100 Modern U.S. Coins as chosen by the PCGS modern coin research team in consultation with noted numismatic experts. The coins are ranked in order of importance, though this order was/is subject to great debate, especially among the Top 10. This is a work in process to be sure. The experts didn't always agree with exactly which coins should be included in this set, but we had a lot of fun selecting our Top 100 Modern Coins, and particularly the Top 10.
Perhaps the biggest argument was over the #1 coin, the 1964-D Peace Dollar. "How can the #1 Modern U.S. coin be one that is illegal to own?" several experts asked. "It was made before 1965," others remarked. However, the general consensus was that the 1964-D Peace Dollar was too important to exclude from the inaugural list and if one ever came onto the market (and the government permitted its sale), it would become one of the most valuable of all U.S. coins. That said, since that coin as well as the 1974 aluminum cent and the gold Sacagawea Dollars are likely either illegal to own or government property, the experts have recently agreed that these three coins will be replaced with three new coins later this year.
And, arguments aside, collectors will find numerous surprises and lots to get excited about in this compilation. Most of the coins are highly collectible, but within the reach of many collectors. Value collectors will appreciate the low cost of the numerous low-mintage coins in this listing. If these were "classic" pre-1965 coins, their value would be considerably higher, often by magnitudes, because of their scarcity.
Most of all, this is an enjoyable assortment of coins, offering diversity in design, challenge in hunting them down, and a lifetime of collecting fun. Even better, the Modern Coin era continues, and who knows what exciting rarities tomorrow will bring! Happy hunting!
****************************************************************************************************************************************
THE CURRENT INTRODUCTORY LANGUAGE TO THE TOP 100 MODERNS SET:
The Modern Coin era began in America in 1965, the first year the U.S. Mint produced copper-nickel "clad" coins as a replacement for silver coins, ending an unbroken, 173-year tradition. For many collectors, this was the death knell for collecting, as the coins would no longer have any intrinsic value and mintages would be huge. Collectors perceived the modern coinage as a vast desert of ultra-common, mundane, unattractive and boring coins.
A perfect melding of perception and reality occurred with the 50 States Quarters program, in which mass quantities of newly designed quarters flooded the market at the rate of five new designs a year. They are, and will be forever, common.
However, among modern coins there are a great number of unexpected treasures, many of which are extremely valuable, each brought about by a variety of circumstances: some were made in error, some are patterns (prototype issues), others are simply low-mintage items, and others are rare varieties.
Instead of being a wasteland, the field of modern coins is just as exciting and challenging as pre-1965 coins. Certainly, there are many common coins, but there are also plenty of rare items. The following list is a presentation of the Top 100 Modern U.S. Coins as chosen by the PCGS modern coin research team in consultation with noted numismatic experts. The coins are ranked in order of importance, though this order was/is subject to great debate, especially among the Top 10. Ownership has a lot to do with it; availability and/or collectibility has even more. We didn't always agree, but we had a lot of fun selecting our Top 100 Modern Coins, and particularly the Top 10.
Perhaps the biggest argument was over the #1 coin, the 1964-D Peace Dollar. "How can the #1 Modern U.S. coin be one that is illegal to own?" several experts asked. "It was made before 1965," others remarked. However, the general consensus was that the 1964-D Peace Dollar was too important to exclude and if one ever came onto the market (and the government permitted its sale), it would become one of the most valuable of all U.S. coins.
Arguments aside, collectors will find numerous surprises and lots to get excited about in this compilation. Most of the coins are highly collectible and within the reach of many collectors. Value collectors will appreciate the low cost of the numerous low-mintage coins in this listing. If these were "classic" pre-1965 coins, their value would be considerably higher, often by magnitudes, because of their scarcity.
Most of all, this is an enjoyable assortment of coins, offering diversity in design, challenge in hunting them down, and a lifetime of collecting fun. Even better, the Modern Coin era continues, and who knows what exciting coins tomorrow will bring!
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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Comments
MS64+RD (pop 1/1 in RD) for a little over $5,000 all in. I am happy with my 62BN older holder which is really a nice 64BN quality I believe or I might have bid higher to try to win this one. This 64+RD coin was not a premium quality coin I believe, which is why I elected to just enjoy my pop 1/0 MS62BN for now.
MS65RD for around $13,500 all in. Considering a 64RB sold previously at Heritage for around $20,000 I believe (then upgraded to a 64RD), I figured this coin might test that same $20,000 level especially because it was very nice for the grade and may even upgrade to 65+RD down the road for the new owner (who is a customer of mine). It also appeared that there were just -2- interested bidders from around the $8,500 level which is also surprising. Equally surprising to me is why the collector who paid about $20,000 for the 64RD coin in the past wasn't interested in bidding higher for the (new) pop 1/0 MS65RD (that was really nice and may well upgrade from here)? Maybe it is because around 3 dozen of these coins have already been found when just a few years ago there were only a handful known?
My conclusion - This coin is ranked too high on the Top 100 Moderns list now and needs to drop down a bit on the next revision to the list. The same may also be true for the 1992-P Close AM, but new finds of that coin are not being discovered nearly as quickly as the 92-D at this point.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Edited to add... I will be at the Teletrade party tomorrow night to talk moderns for anyone interested ... if anyone wants to go to the party drop me a line.
I'd have never imagined in 1962 when they started talking about having to change the
composition of the coins that the day would come that there would be nearly half a century
of coins that are virtual terra incognita. In 1962 there were millions of people checking
pocket change and rolls and it just seemed it could never change.
Should the "S' Mint ATB quarters get a slot in the Top 100? Perhaps all of the S Mint quarters from 2012 in PCGS holders counting as 1 slot in the Top 100 (i.e. you need them all registered to fill the single slot entirely)? Let's say the coins get ranked in position 90. Then, have a 90A, 90B, 90C, 90D, 90E each counting for a 20% fraction of the slot? Thoughts?
Wondercoin
<< <i>Should the "S' Mint ATB quarters get a slot in the Top 100? Perhaps all of the S Mint quarters from 2012 in PCGS holders counting as 1 slot in the Top 100 (i.e. you need them all registered to fill the single slot entirely)? Let's say the coins get ranked in position 90. Then, have a 90A, 90B, 90C, 90D, 90E each counting for a 20% fraction of the slot? Thoughts?
Wondercoin >>
Rather than multiple coins filling a single slot, I would suggest requiring only one 2012-S quarter of any design to represent all five of the low-mintage 2012-S designs.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Low mintage or not, they simply do not belong any more than a presidential medal belongs.
I'm of the opinion that, barring proof examples of circulating coinage, if a coin was not intended for circulation then it should ot be in the Top 100 Modern Collectible Coins list. Maybe a Top 100 Modern Collectibles but certainly not Collectible Coins since, well truth be told, they're bullion intended to act as Investment Options for us commoners.
Eliminating bullion would open up s33 slots for true Modern Collectible Coins such as Eisenhower, Kennedy, Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson and Lincoln Varieties (which are already well represented) not to mention those coins which are extremely difficult to obtain in gem condition due to attrition.
If anything at all, putting true Modern Coins on the list, should fire up a new generation of "numismatists" since each of the coins would be available at nearly face value. Roll Searching would increase beyond the "looking for silver" mode which IMO is not really collecting.
It seems to me, that the plethora of Bullion Coins on the current list have nothing to do with collecting (since you ain't gonna get one in change at 7/11) as much as it has to do with the flipping market. Maybe there should be a list which is title The 100 Mosts successfully Flipped Modern Bullion Pieces?
Nah. That would be too obvious!
I await the day that the "illegal" coins get removed from the list and maybe the District of Columbia DDR coin can take up one of those slots?
Who are the List of Experts anyway?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The whole top 100 list is goofy. The top six coins either don't exist, locked up in Ft. Knox, have only 1 or 2 known. >>
I'm not a modern collector but I do read about a lot of different things...so yes, this is a bit nutty....along with others in the list and then others that were excluded. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But then I am a Mercury Dime Variety nut which doesn't make sense to a lot of others.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Yep Cladking. I agree.
Should the "S' Mint ATB quarters get a slot in the Top 100? Perhaps all of the S Mint quarters from 2012 in PCGS holders counting as 1 slot in the Top 100 (i.e. you need them all registered to fill the single slot entirely)? Let's say the coins get ranked in position 90. Then, have a 90A, 90B, 90C, 90D, 90E each counting for a 20% fraction of the slot? Thoughts?
Wondercoin >>
S Mint ATB quarters in the Top 100 Modern Coins List?
The name is LEE!
For example, I can't believe that the low mintage State Quarter Spoons were overlooked!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Perhaps the biggest argument was over the #1 coin, the 1964-D Peace Dollar. "How can the #1 Modern U.S. coin be one that is illegal to own?" several experts asked. "It was made before 1965," others remarked. >>
If the "experts" say it was made before 1965 then they are not much of an expert are they?
The Registry set mentioned, the "Top 100 Moderns" looks more like a joke then a serious efford.
Regarding bullion moderns ... whether one likes it or not, a significant percentage of the top modern coins are made of silver, gold or platinum. A coin like the 95-W Silver Eagle or the gold UHR or even the 2008-W $50 MS Platinum belong on the list. If one does not feel like owning them, that is fine. But, coins like those are the top modern US coins.
Wondercoin
<< <i>It is clear from the discussion that MORE Top 100 lists may be welcome. For example, the Top 100 conditionally rare moderns, which would include for example that 1969-P quarter I mentioned in my proposed text in MS67 grade or even a 1969 Kennedy half Dollar in MS67 for that matter. Also, Dh has already told me that the coins that are likely illegal to own or govt. property (##1,3,5) will be coming off the list later this year. This will result in (3) additional coins being added to the list.
Regarding bullion moderns ... whether one likes it or not, a significant percentage of the top modern coins are made of silver, gold or platinum. A coin like the 95-W Silver Eagle or the gold UHR or even the 2008-W $50 MS Platinum belong on the list. If one does not feel like owning them, that is fine. But, coins like those are the top modern US coins.
Wondercoin >>
How can a ~$1700 disc of gold stamped $20 or 50 or $100 be called a coin? At the very least, face value should equal metal content when it was minted.
<< <i>It is clear from the discussion that MORE Top 100 lists may be welcome. For example, the Top 100 conditionally rare moderns, which would include for example that 1969-P quarter I mentioned in my proposed text in MS67 grade or even a 1969 Kennedy half Dollar in MS67 for that matter. Also, Dh has already told me that the coins that are likely illegal to own or govt. property (##1,3,5) will be coming off the list later this year. This will result in (3) additional coins being added to the list.
Regarding bullion moderns ... whether one likes it or not, a significant percentage of the top modern coins are made of silver, gold or platinum. A coin like the 95-W Silver Eagle or the gold UHR or even the 2008-W $50 MS Platinum belong on the list. If one does not feel like owning them, that is fine. But, coins like those are the top modern US coins.
>>
I think there are still a lot of people who just have no concept that there are tens of thousands
of US and world moderns that are remarkably difficult to find for one or more of three big reasons;
- They were nmade in huge numbers but not saved.
- They were made in very small numbers
- or the attrition on the coins has simply been staggering.
This last can even apply to mint packaged coins because some packaging has been unstable or
the coins that went into the mint packaging were unstable (or both). The '68 one cent coin is a
case in point since more than 95% of mint set coins are ruined and the other 5% are all damaged
less severely.
Almost all of the classics appear today relative their mintages because they were set aside by col-
lectors. If a coin was common in 1850 it is probably still relatively common. But with moderns like
a '50-E East German 5p what was common in the past can be virtually non-existent today. People
didn't save moderns and few even got put into mint sets until the '70's. A "common" coin like a '72-D
type "b" reverse Washington quarter is scarce today in any condition and is rare in XF or better.
Write the US Mint with your complaint.
In the meantime, not only is it a "coin" but quite possibly one of the most beautiful coins ever produced by the US Mint. And, FYI ... the UHR is stamped $20, not $50.
Wondercoin
<< <i>How can a ~$1700 disc of gold stamped $20 or 50 or $100 be called a coin? At the very least, face value should equal metal content when it was minted. >>
only recent cents and nickels qualify
???
<< <i>
<< <i>How can a ~$1700 disc of gold stamped $20 or 50 or $100 be called a coin? At the very least, face value should equal metal content when it was minted. >>
only recent cents and nickels qualify
??? >>
It referred to bullion which was in the original post. Of course when you take it out of context it looks stupid. Thanks.
<< <i>It referred to bullion which was in the original post. Of course when you take it out of context it looks stupid. Thanks. >>
I'm not sure of your intent but let's not forget that coins used to be bullion and in 1935 a quarter had only 6c worth of silver in it.
Should a nice gemmy '35-D quarter be omitted from the album because its face value was so high relative the silver value?
The definition of "coin" is a continuum. Be careful what you want to exclude.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How can a ~$1700 disc of gold stamped $20 or 50 or $100 be called a coin? At the very least, face value should equal metal content when it was minted. >>
only recent cents and nickels qualify
??? >>
It referred to bullion which was in the original post. Of course when you take it out of context it looks stupid. Thanks. >>
ok sorry. no big deal to me.
for bullion, since metal prices vary over the years.... denomination is still just a figment of someone's imagination.
Should a nice gemmy '35-D quarter be omitted from the album because its face value was so high relative the silver value?
The definition of "coin" is a continuum. Be careful what you want to exclude."
Brilliant analysis Cladking!
Wondercoin
But really, Low Mintage should have absolutely no bearing on these particular pieces because a low mintage implies "limited availability" in reference to "circulating coinage". The sad reality is that these can be procured at anytime or anyplace in ultra high grades. Some were instant sellouts. Some were limited in production due to release costs.
Most were procured through dealer networks for bulk submissions to enable better control of pricing.
Sure, some of them are pricey but is "price" really the determining factor for appearing on this list? If so, I doubt that these experts have any idea what a collectible piece might be. You know, one that you actually had to "hunt" for. These bullion pieces require no hunting at all, just a big pocket book. To me, thats nothing more than a tool for someone to make money and has little to do with actual collecting.
From the Introduction: "Most of all, this is an enjoyable assortment of coins, offering diversity in design, challenge in hunting them down, and a lifetime of collecting fun. Even better, the Modern Coin era continues, and who knows what exciting coins tomorrow will bring!"
I guess I could take exception with the phrase "challenge in hunting them down" in that the only real "challenge" here is in figuring out where or how you're going to pay for this bullion? All of it is readily available! After you buy it, then you worry about it retaining or sustaining "it's value" so that the investment can be recouped which in some cases, just doesn't happen.
As for a "lifetime of collecting fun"? Anything that I can buy given an unlimited budget within 6 months, does not equal a "lifetime". Again, there is no hunting for this bullion stuff. You just buy it! Keep it for a year and then sell it. Thats not collecting and thats not a lifetime.
IMO, a hunt involves looking through common stuff to find that true gem or variety. THAT is a hunt. The reward comes if what you are looking for can be had for face value! THAT is a hunt.
Maybe I'm a little biased in my opinions since I know of several coins which have truly low mintages, are extremely difficult to find, could command significant prices, yet, are not even mentioned on the list. But thats just me.
Hopefully, folks will not "USE" this list to guide their collecting habits, but will instead use numismatics to guide their collecting interests. Hopefully, they will "study" there modern collections and make note of "their" discoveries through observation and comparison. IMO, this is the only way to truly appreciate Modern Coins.
The name is LEE!
If you believe that coins like the 1995-W Silver Eagle or the the 2009 UHR are "bullion" and therefore not "modern coins" then I would have to agree that you are a "little biased" in your opnion.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"Maybe I'm a little biased in my opinions"
If you believe that coins like the 1995-W Silver Eagle or the the 2009 UHR are "bullion" and therefore not "modern coins" then I would have to agree that you are a "little biased" in your opnion.
Wondercoin >>
Right. Just as "biased" as you are in your opinions. You do, after all, deal in a lot of bullion coins!
Frankly, I'd value my AU55 1970-D Washington DDO over any of your MS/PR70 Gold pieces whose prices would, dare I say it, be affected if gold ever went down to say, below the $1,000 per ounce mark?
Hmmmm. Smells like bullion to me.
The name is LEE!
This is not to say these coins in my example will not crash in price, or possibly skyrocket in price for that matter (I make no predictions). This is to say the metal content currently represents 1% (and closer to 1/5 of 1% in the 70 grade) in the case of the 95-W and 10%-20% in the case of the JR gold.
So, we will have to simply agree to disagree on this I suppose. Meanwhile, I will personally be pursuing both the coolest modern bullion coins out there at the right price (selected pieces though), the "absolutely rare" coins set out in the Top 100 set and even outside the set (selected pieces as well) and the coolest business strike conditionally rare moderns and their very neat varieties (selected pieces at the right price). In 10 or 20 years, I will know which pile performed the best and by how much.
Wondercoin
I agree. And I would also suggest that one's own Top 100 Moderns is strongly influenced by one's own holdings. For instance, I think that the Satin Finish 2010 Missing Edge Sacagawea Dollar ranks right up there! There are a couple other Missing Edge Dollars that should also be considered, based on their difficulty. The 1964-D Peace Dollar shouldn't be on any list until one is documented.
I knew it would happen.
Wondercoin
The 2008-W 1 oz Proof Gold Buff is an awesome coin. The 1991 1/2 Unc AGE is a tough coin in MS-68 or MS-69, and may or may not be the key depending on how you classify the Burnished AGEs. Either way, they should both be on the list.
I do see Lee's point about the challenge of hunting down a scarce circulating coin for fun, but that same challenge exists for some of the Bullion coins as well. The challenge is very similar, and it's not just about price - if you've ever tried to find some of the early Unc Plats in decent shape, it's not a slam dunk. I'm sure that the same thing is true for the early Unc AGEs that were widely dispersed the year that they were made. I'm beginning to think that the 2 significant "melts" that we've had since 1997 got a bunch of the Plats. I think we're going to see the same thing occuring with some of the Gold Spouses.
Fact is, you can't collect "everything" unless you're independently wealthy and don't have much of a life otherwise. The world changed in 1965 when LBJ decided to debase the coinage and it changed again in 1986 when Reagan initiated the American Eagles program. The Mint has added their own twist on reality by making it impossible to keep up with the previously-straightforward hobby of assembling a "coin collection".
To Lee's other point about low mintages being no different than the myriad of privately-minted bullion pieces, that there are a couple of important reason people buy Mint Bullion, and collecting is essentially a secondary reason, not the primary one. However, that's been true for every other series of coinage ever issued by the Mint, except maybe Proof coinage. That includes every coin that was ever issued for circulation - they weren't issued for collectors. Neither circulating coinage nor Modern Bullion were originally intended to be the object of collectors' desires.
That is the relevant point in my opinion. Collectors collect because they find their own reasons to collect. My quest for early Unc Plats is NO different than Lee's quest for some rare Ike piece. Neither is found in circulation, and the only difference is where we have to search in order to find it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Lee: Your 70-D Quarter has been for sale on ebay (last I saw). It's a great coin and when you get your price it will be sold (at an huge profit which you deserve). If I thought that your 70-D quarter was worth more than every "bullion" coin I own, I would have bought it. So, yes, we each have our differing opinions. You are one of the most impressive "hunters" for modern varieties out there. With all due respect, I personally believe you are a bit misguided though with respect to your position on the roughly (40) gold, silver and platinum coins in the Top 100 set. Do you REALLY believe a Jackie Robinson $5 Mint State Gold Commem that sells for $2,000+ in MS69 and about to $4,000 - $6,000 in MS70 and contains about $400 in gold content at today's spot level will be greatly affected when gold "crashes" to $1,000 oz. (in your hypothetical) and the coin has only about $250 in gold in it at that point? Likewise, do you really believe a 1995-W $1 Silver Eagle in PCGS-PR69DCAM that sells for $3,300+ (and I would like to buy -3- more by the way at that price right now and will pay the full $3,300/coin for problem-free specimens) and roughly $20,000 in PR70DCAM and contains a whopping $32 in silver value will crash in price if silver corrects to $20/oz or even $15/oz? If you do, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I think the notion that $32/oz silver vs. $15/oz. dictates whether the 95-W even in PR69DCAM will sell for $3,300 (100x the silver content) or way, way less is implausible. In fact, when silver was $40/oz recently the 95-W was selling for about $500 less!
This is not to say these coins in my example will not crash in price, or possibly skyrocket in price for that matter (I make no predictions). This is to say the metal content currently represents 1% (and closer to 1/5 of 1% in the 70 grade) in the case of the 95-W and 10%-20% in the case of the JR gold.
So, we will have to simply agree to disagree on this I suppose. Meanwhile, I will personally be pursuing both the coolest modern bullion coins out there at the right price (selected pieces though), the "absolutely rare" coins set out in the Top 100 set and even outside the set (selected pieces as well) and the coolest business strike conditionally rare moderns and their very neat varieties (selected pieces at the right price). In 10 or 20 years, I will know which pile performed the best and by how much.
Wondercoin >>
First off Mitch, I said nothing about Commemoratives. Just Platinum and Gold Eagles.
Silver Eagles were created under the Liberty Commemorative Coin Act whereas Platinum and Gold Eagles were created under Gold and Platinum "Bullion" Acts. No dpoubt the 95-W Proof SAE is a cool coin and no doubt, many have issues making finding a good one a challenge. However, there are many to choose from and the only real challenge is in deciding which one you'll spend your money on.
None, of the Gold or Platinum coins are Rare. Just expensive. All are readily available unless, of course, folks are looking for First Strike™ labels but thats another story altogether.
However, I challenge you to find a 1970-D Washington DDO-001. After you've found that (if you do) find a 1971-S Eisenhower DDR-005. Then look for a Prototype Eisenhower.
Once the populations get up around 5 or 10 of the above coins, I might back off on the crusade against Gold and Platinum Bullion coins which all have verifiable mintages and populations in the thousands.
There are many truly Top Modern Coins which are NOT on the list and rightfully should have been.
Of course, I fully expect that when the 64-D and Gold Sac's get dropped.........they'll be replaced with your pieces.
But, hey, its a PCGS Authorized Coin Dealer World. Right?
The name is LEE!
I wanted to address Lee's point regarding Gold or Platinum eagles. Not because I want to "fight" with Lee (which I do not), but because the very intent of this thread is to engage in meaningful discussion about the Top 100 Moderns set, which coins should be possibly added or deleted, and what other related sets that might be interesting for PCGS to consider establishing.
Lee suggests for example that his 1970-D DDO quarter which is on ebay (and has been for a long time) at an asking price of just under $2,900 in AU55 condition deserves to be in the Top 100 rankings. He points out the coin has (2) known the other also being an AU example that sold at Heritage for under $1,300 not too long ago. I pointed out that I also own a very neat 1965 DDO Washington Quarter where there are currently 2 or 3 known and my coin is in the finest known Mint State grade at PCGS and is valued at $1,500. I also pointed out that I own a 1965 Silver Washington Quarter grading PCGS-MS64 which is not on the list at all. This coin has about a half dozen or so coins known with nearly all of them being XF-AU quality. These coins sell for close to $10,000 now in the circulated grades (compare for example the AU 1943 bronze cent I just sold at auction this month for well over $300,000 with buyers fee). My MS64 example of the 1965 Silver Quarter is worth a boatload of money ... perhaps 10x,, if not 20x, the value of either Lee's 1970-D DDO quarter or my 1965 DDO quarter. My 1965 Silver Quarter is not on PCGS's Top 100 list and I am not even suggesting they include in the next round of changes.
Now, you will see that recently I mentioned that the 1991 $25 Gold Eagle Mint State needs to be included in the Top 100 Set (a point Jmski52 quickly agreed with me on). You see, notwithstanding Lee's assertion that this roughly 24,000 mintage gold eagle coin is "readily available", the reality is the coin is very, very elusive in all grades. How elusive? Perhaps (50)-(100) coins trade hands in a given year (excluding the same coin trading duplicate times). In fact, where Lee L. is having trouble selling his (2 known) 70-D DDO quarter for even $2,000 or $2,200 on a best offer on ebay, I could sell (100) 1991 $25 MS69 Gold Eagles for MORE money per coin in one single afternoon (make my day and offer my 20 or 50 coins today please!) So, which coin belongs on the Top 100 Modern list, which is NOT called the Top 100 Rarest moderns, but simply the Top 100 Moderns? A coin that it takes one year to sell one coin to one possible interested party for roughly $2,000 or so, or a coin that has such worldwide demand that (100) MS69 coins could sell in a single afternoon at MORE money per coin (and you wouldn't want to know what an MS70 would fetch)? This is why I believe PCGS "got it right" with its inclusion of all the neatest gold, silver and platinum eagles in this list. The 1991 $25 Gold Eagle which already wholesales at more than $4,500/oz is yet another example of a deserving coin and one I will ask PCGS to consider including in its next revised Top 100 Moderns list.
Wondercoin
Proofs too.
Sorry Lee
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Wondercoin
<< <i>Stephanie: No joke ... A few minutes ago, I just spoke with one of THE sharpest Numismatists on the planet (yes, a household name to those in the field of US classic coins) who just asked me why the MS 1986 Silver Eagle is not on that Top 100 Moderns list! I told him the 1996 MS made the list and he should be happy about that!
Wondercoin
Ha.....I'm a trend setter
btw......my two cents.....I think the 1994 ASE proof should be included as it has the next lowest mintage next to the 1995
and it's more affordable as well as attainable
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
I'd think a top 100 varieties and/or errors list is one thing and a top 100 coin list is a different one.
None, of the Gold or Platinum coins are Rare. Just expensive. All are readily available unless, of course, folks are looking for First Strike™ labels but thats another story altogether.
I am pretty sure that the American Silver Eagles and the American Gold Eagles were both authorized in the same 1985 legislation, and it didn't have anything to do with a commemorative issue. Silver Eagles are just as much a bullion issue as the Gold and Platinum Eagles, I think.
The rarity question is multifaceted. Is a coin only rare if you can't find it in circulation? In that case, aren't all Ike Dollars rare, and Anthony Dollars as well? Clearly, rarity accounts for something more than just finding coins from circulation.
Is a 1916-D rare, or is a 1909-s vdb rare? In my day, those were rare because my Whitman folder had the holes tabbed so that you didn't have to worry about not having them, just in case. However, now we know that these coins are not rare, per se'. There are many available at a price. Still, low mintage and limited availability (limited by price, even) have always been accepted as a measure of rarity, and many of the Gold & Platinum Eagles qualify as rare on both counts.
First Strike, well as Lee indicates - that's another story entirely. A marketing coup, if nothing else.
I knew it would happen.
Agreed. But, there again, a number of folks questioned them being there. And, in a recent article assessing the composition of the set, the author suggests the 3 should be condensed into 1 slot. I believe these coins should be in the set in three different slots and one day I hope to be able to purchase one at a fair price for my collection.
Wondercoin
Under current definition a copper penny is "bullion" - it worth twice as much in the metal content than it's face value
$0.0246017 is the melt value for the 1909-1982 copper cent on February 12, 2013.
First, what is this set all about? The name of the set, the “Top 100 Modern Coins” and the description implies that the set is composed of modern US coin manufactured 1965 to date. Should this set be just “regular” issues of 1965 to dated US modern coinage or include “Test Strikes”, “Experimental Strikes”, “Prototype Strikes”, “Error Strikes”, “Pattern Strikes”, “Die Variety Strikes” or any combination of the previous list?
It appears that the author(s) of the set didn’t do their “do diligence” in the construction or make up of the set.
Below are a few observations / question that I will raise:
1. With the passage of the “Retention of 1964 on all Coins” act passed on September 3, 1964 which opened the door for the limited two week run of 1964-D Peace dollars in May of 1965 proves that the 1964-D Peace Dollars were struck in 1965 and therefore meets the definition of the set (coins struck 1965 – date). Whether the coins are legal to own or if they even exist is the unknown but they were minted in the time frame being utilized (1965 – Dated).
2. The third coin in the set is the 1974 aluminum Lincoln cent (J2151 / P2084) but the 1975 aluminum Lincoln cent (J2155) is omitted?
3. The fourth coin in the set is also a little puzzling? Why would J2164 / P2088 or J2163 / P2087 ( A 40% silver proof Bicentennial dollar with no mint mark) be included in a set purporting to be the “Top 100 Modern Coins” but not including the J2162 / P2086 and J2161 / P2085 counter parts (40% silver proof Bicentennial half dollar and quarter dollar with no mint mark)? Where are the Martha Washington coins minted in 1965 and 1999 in the set?
4. The coins listed in the 27th through 30th slot, the made up infamous so-called 1964 Special Mint Set coinage, should these be listed in a “Top 100 Modern Coin” set defined as 1965 – Date? Not even addressing the questionable authenticity of these coins is there any evidence that these coins were not minted in 1964 and there forth excluded from a set purporting to be from 1965 - Date?
5. The thirty – fifth coin listed is the 1964 Proof “Accented Hair” Kennedy half dollar. This is the first type of Proof Kennedy half dollars and was minted towards the beginning of 1964 so by the set’s definition, it should be excluded from a set purporting to be from 1965 – Date.
6. The fiftieth coin listed is the 1974-D DDO-001 Kennedy half dollar. This is a common Doubled Die still easily found in Mint Sets of that year. If Doubled Die varieties are permitted to being included within this set there are other nicer examples which are rarer and harder to find which should be included before the 1974-D DDO Kennedy half dollar. Examples would be just for the Kennedy series, business strike 1966 DDO-005, SMS 1966 DDO-019, business strike 1967 DDO-001, SMS 1967 DDO-006, Proof 1968-S DDO-002, Proof 1968-S Inverted “S”, Proof 1970-S DDO-002, business strike 1972-P DDO-001 and business strike1973-D DDO-001.
7. The seventy – second coin listed is the 1970-D Kennedy half dollar. Is this coin so hard to find that it warrants being placed on a list of the “Top 100 Modern Coins”? Even if you considered that several 40% silver Kennedy half dollars have been destroyed for their silver content during the peaks of the silver price run ups, most 1970-D Kennedy half dollar survived the “melting pot” because their value exceeded the spot price of silver. As far as rarity goes just in the Kennedy series, there are several more “Key” coins then the 70-D with a mintage of 2.15 million, just to list a few:
a. 1993 S Silver Proof 0.761 Million
b. 1994 S Silver Proof 0.785 Million
c. 2005 P “Satin Finish” 1.16 Million
d. 2005 D “Satin Finish” 1.16 Million
e. 2006 P “Satin Finish” 0.847 Million
f. 2006 D “Satin Finish” 0.847 Million
g. 2008 S Silver Proof 0.620 Million
I believe there might be strong interest in a modern registry set of the top 100 varieties and errors and, if so, I could see a number of the Kennedy Half Dollars you mentioned being included in such a set.
Wondercoin
I was just going by the write up in the description that PCGS put into the set:
<< <i> The Modern Coin era began in America in 1965, the first year the U.S. Mint produced copper-nickel "clad" coins as a replacement for silver coins, ending an unbroken, 173-year tradition. >>
If PCGS wants to rename the set to: The “Top 100 Coins, 1964 – Date”, then so be it but to call it a “Modern Set” and then define the “Modern Coin Era” beginning in 1965 seems kind of foolish to have coins made in 1964 in it. If coins from 1964 would be legitimately in the set, then the 1964-D DDO-001, DDO-003 and DDO-005 Kennedy half dollars would be more worthy then some of the offer minor Doubled Dies listed in the current set.
Personally, I would prefer to have the “Top 100 Modern Coin” set made up of non varieties, errors, patterns, test or experimental strikes. Just regular proof or business strike coins based on their rarity and desire to be collected.
If PCGS wants to later have a “Top 100 Modern Error” set or “Top 100 Modern Variety” set, then fine but if they define the set as “modern varieties” and in the set description state that the “modern era began in 1965” then I don’t want to see the 1955 Lincoln cent DDO required. It just wouldn’t make since.
Again, just my two cent,
Caleb
<< <i>"None, of the Gold or Platinum coins are Rare. Just expensive. All are readily available"
I wanted to address Lee's point regarding Gold or Platinum eagles. Not because I want to "fight" with Lee (which I do not), but because the very intent of this thread is to engage in meaningful discussion about the Top 100 Moderns set, which coins should be possibly added or deleted, and what other related sets that might be interesting for PCGS to consider establishing.
Lee suggests for example that his 1970-D DDO quarter which is on ebay (and has been for a long time) at an asking price of just under $2,900 in AU55 condition deserves to be in the Top 100 rankings. He points out the coin has (2) known the other also being an AU example that sold at Heritage for under $1,300 not too long ago. I pointed out that I also own a very neat 1965 DDO Washington Quarter where there are currently 2 or 3 known and my coin is in the finest known Mint State grade at PCGS and is valued at $1,500. I also pointed out that I own a 1965 Silver Washington Quarter grading PCGS-MS64 which is not on the list at all. This coin has about a half dozen or so coins known with nearly all of them being XF-AU quality. These coins sell for close to $10,000 now in the circulated grades (compare for example the AU 1943 bronze cent I just sold at auction this month for well over $300,000 with buyers fee). My MS64 example of the 1965 Silver Quarter is worth a boatload of money ... perhaps 10x,, if not 20x, the value of either Lee's 1970-D DDO quarter or my 1965 DDO quarter. My 1965 Silver Quarter is not on PCGS's Top 100 list and I am not even suggesting they include in the next round of changes.
Now, you will see that recently I mentioned that the 1991 $25 Gold Eagle Mint State needs to be included in the Top 100 Set (a point Jmski52 quickly agreed with me on). You see, notwithstanding Lee's assertion that this roughly 24,000 mintage gold eagle coin is "readily available", the reality is the coin is very, very elusive in all grades. How elusive? Perhaps (50)-(100) coins trade hands in a given year (excluding the same coin trading duplicate times). In fact, where Lee L. is having trouble selling his (2 known) 70-D DDO quarter for even $2,000 or $2,200 on a best offer on ebay, I could sell (100) 1991 $25 MS69 Gold Eagles for MORE money per coin in one single afternoon (make my day and offer my 20 or 50 coins today please!) So, which coin belongs on the Top 100 Modern list, which is NOT called the Top 100 Rarest moderns, but simply the Top 100 Moderns? A coin that it takes one year to sell one coin to one possible interested party for roughly $2,000 or so, or a coin that has such worldwide demand that (100) MS69 coins could sell in a single afternoon at MORE money per coin (and you wouldn't want to know what an MS70 would fetch)? This is why I believe PCGS "got it right" with its inclusion of all the neatest gold, silver and platinum eagles in this list. The 1991 $25 Gold Eagle which already wholesales at more than $4,500/oz is yet another example of a deserving coin and one I will ask PCGS to consider including in its next revised Top 100 Moderns list.
Wondercoin >>
It's kinda pointless to continue discussing this since from "your" modified introduction, you want more bullion to be added. I can understand that. I mean, after all, as gold goes up, so do the bullion coins and everyone has to make a buck. With the possibility of a new list being generated when the need calls for it, more bullion can be added. It's good for the market since everybody trusts coin dealers to guide them to the right products for purchase. Right?
Oh yeah, go ahead and sell your 1991's as those prices have actually been reflective of bullion prices and the coin has consistently sold for about 1.5 times an ounce of gold even though they are only 1/2 ounce. Not that this is a bad thing mind you. A few have slipped in under the 1.5 times of an ounce but evidently, there's a strong market for the coin. I could guarantee that if it got added to the Top 100 Modern Coins list, which is blessed by PCGS, that a lot more would work there way into the market place. (Just like some of the 1996 Commemoratives have on eBay.)
I don't really see collector created bullion as Modern Coins. Only as bullion coins created for today's bullion market and tghe US Mints Collector Market.
As for the legislation that was used to pass the Eagles Programs, check this US Mint Legislation Page.
Down under the heading:
"Bullion Coins Legislated by Congress"
It plainly states that the Silver Eagle is a Commemorative Coin while the Gold Eagles, Platinum Eagles, and Gold Buffalo's are just bullion coins.
The Top 100 Modern Coins List, IMO, is just a guided buy and does not to encourage "Modern Coin Collecting" as one would think it should.
Let's talk First Spouse coins. Should they be on the list? They doi take up 7 slots and yes they are commemoratives.
Historically, they started out with strong sellouts and very high returns. Well, that is until the US Mint started enforcing limits. (They started with a 40,000 coins across Proof and BU limits). Then sales dropped dramatically. Current mintages, yes you could call them low, are simply reflective of interest and given the US Mints mark up on the coin coupled with the dealer network markup, few people even bother ordering them. Even the US Mint lowered the maximum mintage amounts. Did these slip under the radar or did folks lose the flipping interest? The coins are only popular for those that are determined to complete a set of them. Of course, this also doesn't even address the fact that the magical MS/PR70 grade throws a blessing over the entire sell package.
And no, I am not fighting just "strenuously objecting" with what I think are valid points. I'd much rather pay a little over face value to search for a modern coin from a roll than I would paying thousands out of the gate and then "praying" that the mintages ended up on the low side so that I could flip my little hoard.
Oh wait, I do this with every Proof and BU Silver Eagle that gets released. My bad!
But............ it is a way for me to subsidize continued purchases of Washington, Kennedy and IKE Dollars for my REAL collections.
The name is LEE!
I knew it would happen.
Actually Lee, those are bullion coins according to the legislative history on the program approved into law.
Fair points and you certainly get no argument out of me that I also enjoy business strike coins from 1932-date including errors and varieties!
But, to suggest that collectors of silver, gold and platinum coins dated 1982 to date are not real collectors with "real collections" makes it difficult to continue to engage in a thoughtful debate on the subject.
Quick story though ... a few years back on Teletrade I won a 2000 $100 Platinum coin in PCGS-MS70 for a steal of a price (under $5,000). The coin was worth at least $15,000-$20,000 at the time I believe. I had been hunting for an MS70 $100 Platinum dated between 1999 and 2002 for about (10) years. The coin was not a true 70 and I immediately brought it to PCGS to investigate. They agreed (and figured out how the mistake was made) and luckily for them the owner was a PCGS authorized dealer who was so "big" that he did not even look at his coins as they came back from PCGS. He had no problem agreeing to regrade the coin properly, Teletrade agreed to waive their commission on the sale and I asked for nothing. This mistake was cleaned up costing PCGS nothing. Meanwhile, my search continues for an MS70 for this year ... and I will probably NEVER find a true MS70 for this date. So, tell me I am any less of a "collector" or I have any less of a "collection" because I am pursuing the finest possible mint state platinum coin. It is just as FUN and challenging as trying to find a great clad quarter variety to me.
And, how about that 1982 GW Half Commem mentioned here the other day... yes, once again a coin I have been searching for now for 30 years in perfect condition. And, once again, I bought a mistakenly graded PCGS-MS70 last year that needed to go back to PCGS and went from MS70 to MS68. And, once again, I lost a "five figure" paper profit by turning in the coin (which I had no intention of selling though as I had a top Modern MS Half Dollar Commem set at the time ... a project I started with my son many years ago) . This time, PCGS paid me directly what I paid for it sight-unseen and that authorized dealer was able to keep their money (which still makes no sense to me). But, I digress.
The "hunt" for TRUE flawless coins (or as close to it as possible) is just as great FUN as the hunt for a cool variety. Try it for (30) years and get back to me
Wondercoin
<< <i> And, how about that 1982 GW Half Commem >>
Sounds good to me......what about the proof
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Wondercoin
<< <i>But, to suggest that collectors of silver, gold and platinum coins dated 1982 to date are not real collectors with "real collections" makes it difficult to continue to engage in a thoughtful debate on the subject. Wondercoin >>
The disdain for the Modern collector has always been very apparent. In particular modern bullion.
While I read the threads about older coins I generally stick to collecting moderns because for me it's been easier to learn the modern ropes.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.