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Am I missing something here? Please show me the logic.

AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
in Precious Metals
OK for conversation sake lets say silver is 32 an ounce. I can go to any show in america and pay a 5 dollar premium and get ASE's by the roll at 37 ea or 740.00 a roll.
I go to Ebay and see 2013 rolls going for 730-740 a roll. Lets use 740 a roll for conversation purposes. After ebay 9% and pay pal 3% that 740 sale price gets the seller 651 plus he still has to ship it.

A. Do the big sellers not pay the 9+3 percent????
B. Why do they not come to the BST here and sell for 680-700 and make some money?????

Confused here.

Tom

Comments

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Timing and bulk purchases makes all the difference. If your purchase is substantial, your premium above melt will be less than $3. Only novices pay a 9% eBay fee. It's much closer to 4.5% - 5% if you "have an eBay store" and are a power seller. In addition, if you are a top rated seller, you'll receive a 20% kick back on your FVF. And that's how those sellers remain in the black. image
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even with my ebay store and powerseller rating I try not to list bullion other then collectors pieces on ebay. I cant afford to buy ASE is a large enough bulk to cut costs, one day though....haha
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A. Do the big sellers not pay the 9+3 percent????
    B. Why do they not come to the BST here and sell for 680-700 and make some money????? >>



    A. No
    B. Seller protection

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
    Thanks for all the answers. I guess I will just bite the bullet and pay the prmium or wait for the next dip to get some 2013's
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    shop around. Try moderncoinmart.com or gainesvillecoins.com

    You might post a BST wanted listing with the price you will pay.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So the cellar netted 32.50. Which just happens to be pretty close to the spot .price
    So who is stupid the guy selling, or the buyer paying a 5 dollar premium



    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • AcesCrackedAcesCracked Posts: 189 ✭✭
    Exactly my point..........
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anybody paying a $5 premium for ASE is nuts. Yes they bring a premium but 15% over melt? Not from me.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So the cellar netted 32.50. Which just happens to be pretty close to the spot .price
    So who is stupid the guy selling, or the buyer paying a 5 dollar premium >>


    the guy selling

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Anybody paying a $5 premium for ASE is nuts. Yes they bring a premium but 15% over melt? Not from me. >>


    Keep in mind the mint sells to only a handful of authorized resellers at a premium who have to add more premium (for profit) before reselling to the public. $3-5 retail premium is the new normal. Spot price (with no premium) will buy you a paper promise. Paper carries counterparty risk, ASEs do not. Removing counterparty risk with a physical purchase will cost you the premium. As paper promise counterparty risk increases so will demand and premiums for physical ASEs. Rising premiums are nothing more than a growing separation between paper and physical. Look for it to widen further.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    The more hands the ASE goes thru, the more the end buyer will pay. And having an eBay store, being a power seller and getting 20% of FVF's is still rape, but derryb hit it on the head. At least you get seller protection.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭
    Look at the other way. Selling on BST.

    Lets say 2013 rolls are going for $730-$760 on eBay, avg is $745.

    If you use auction AND start at .99 AND get %20 AND its your store front.

    your roll closes at $745, you net $685. (assuming you also asked for shipping or its $6 less than that).

    OR you come on BST and ask $710-$720 shipped via non fee payment.

    I know the route I would take. I always try BST first.


    Loves me some shiny!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The more hands the ASE goes thru, the more the end buyer will pay. And having an eBay store, being a power seller and getting 20% of FVF's is still rape, but derryb hit it on the head. At least you get seller protection. >>



    Not necessarily true. I've bought ASE's on the secondary market at or very near melt.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So the cellar netted 32.50. Which just happens to be pretty close to the spot .price
    So who is stupid the guy selling, or the buyer paying a 5 dollar premium >>



    Both. The guy paying the high premium and the other guy squandering the premium by giving half of it to eBay/PP.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Anybody paying a $5 premium for ASE is nuts. Yes they bring a premium but 15% over melt? Not from me. >>


    Keep in mind the mint sells to only a handful of authorized resellers at a premium who have to add more premium (for profit) before reselling to the public. $3-5 retail premium is the new normal. Spot price (with no premium) will buy you a paper promise. Paper carries counterparty risk, ASEs do not. Removing counterparty risk with a physical purchase will cost you the premium. As paper promise counterparty risk increases so will demand and premiums for physical ASEs. Rising premiums are nothing more than a growing separation between paper and physical. Look for it to widen further. >>



    Some of the premium for ASE appears to be due to "they're pretty" and "they have this or that year on them" or because they're United States legal tender (non-circulating) silver dollars.

    Ugly scrap sells for spot (or less)

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ugly scrap will always sell for spot or less. there's a reason why ASEs hold their premium

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • s4nys4ny Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭
    The premiums for ASEs have held well. They are attractive coins in a simple 1 ounce size.
    50 years ago the 1 ounce of silver was worth $1 or less. Some day the $5 premium per coin
    will seem small.

    These power sellers do not pay the same fees for Ebay and Paypal.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The premiums for ASEs have held well. They are attractive coins in a simple 1 ounce size.
    50 years ago the 1 ounce of silver was worth $1 or less. Some day the $5 premium per coin
    will seem small.

    These power sellers do not pay the same fees for Ebay and Paypal. >>



    I agree a $5 premium on ASE will seem small someday. Today is not that day though. At least for me.

    That said, eBay buyers regularly pay a $5 premium today and I have paid a $3 premium. $3 over melt is the most I've paid - so far. image
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    I generally don't pay over $1 to $2 over spot on ASEs. I usually buy secondary, and sometimes get BU and sometimes junky so it evens out. sort of...

    Humm, the premium could better be thought of as a % right?
    Because if silver went up to $100 spot, the ASE premium would go up 3 times as well. Instead of $2+ now, $6+ then, eh? But who knows..
    COA
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ASE premiums over spot don't normally maintain a steady percentage with a rising spot price. While the premium over spot can easily be calculated, the competitive market to sell ASEs dictates that premiums not increase as spot price increases. Premiums are more an indicator of demand and product desireability and usually only rise with increased demand or with a premium price increase from the initial source, the US Mint. Not sure what premium the authorized resellers pay to the US Mint, but I would guess it is currently $1.00-2.00 per ASE. Any additional premium is the profit margin for these resellers. Unless you are buying directly from an authorized reseller, the premium sees further increases as each additional seller tacks on his profit before the coin gets to you.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure if this is still correct

    "On October 1, 2010, the United States Mint increased the premium charged to their network of authorized purchasers for American Silver Eagles from $1.50 to $2.00 per coin."

    If so, buying your 2013 Eagles for $3 - $5 above spot, depending on the number you purchased, appears to be the norm.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭✭


    The key here is no one is getting 2013 ASE's from anywhere for under 32$ the lowest silver has been is $30 in the last 2 months . You could say a pawn shop might buy an ASE for $10 and sell it for $35 but there hasn't been time to get a 2013 that way.


    Some people pre ordered 2013's from APMEX or whoever but they paid $35 each or more in early december.


    If you have been sitting on ASE's you bought at $12 each and sell those for $35 you are doing ok. There is no reason for a buyer to pay a premium for a 2013 as they could very well wind up the highest mintage to date.

    buying 2013's at spot +3 or more for immediate resale is not to bright


  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>buying 2013's at spot +3 or more for immediate resale is not to bright >>



    Agree, if it's for immediate resale and by your statement, you have little faith that silver will turn around any time soon. I've been doing exactly that, buying rolls over the last 10 years when first released, but for long term investments ( I consider my self a temporary stacker until a decent profit can be made - not so for rolls purchased since 2011 though). On the other hand, if silver does an unexpected immediate turnaround, you'd earn bragging rights from our forum PM bulls and it may even elevate you to a PM guru.image
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>buying 2013's at spot +3 or more for immediate resale is not to bright >>



    Agree, if it's for immediate resale and by your statement, you have little faith that silver will turn around any time soon. I've been doing exactly that, buying rolls over the last 10 years when first released, but for long term investments ( I consider my self a temporary stacker until a decent profit can be made - not so for rolls purchased since 2011 though). On the other hand, if silver does an unexpected immediate turnaround, you'd earn bragging rights from our forum PM bulls and it may even elevate you to a PM guru.image >>




    I don't want silver to go up , if it will mean I can buy lessimage I buy silver week in week out , if it goes up to $40 it doesn't help me any. I want metal not paper

    I like the idea of flipping certain things but you have to make more than 15% or its silly. If I snag an old panda or kook at melt and get $60 for it on ebay I'm all for it but I'm not buying ASE's to make 2$ each a week later . I have a small pile of oddball stuff like that that I trickle out with the truck parts I sell.









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