I got no problem with any athlete thinking he is the best however the problem here is one of the reasons Randy is not statistically the best WR ever is because of himself. The guy left alot of numbers on the table over the years by taking plays off and what not, also the fact that he had such a piss poor attitude doesnt help his cause any.
Sure fire HOF no question about it.
In their primes I say Moss was better but overall career package Rice is the better choice.
The plays he took off were the ones where he wasn't getting the ball. Not saying I condone that attitude, but it didn't contribute to a drop in his numbers. If you want to use it as an reason for putting Rice over him, I'm OK with that.
His last year for each team (when he displayed a piss-poor attitude) is what really kept his numbers down. He'd have another 50-60 catches (putting him well over 1,000), another 10-12 TDs, and another 800-1000 yards receiving if he acted like a professional instead of wearing out his welcome in MIN, OAK, and NE.
His physical abilities (speed, athleticism) dwarfed Rice's. Rice just played in a great system with 2 of the top 3 or 4 QBs of all time, and kept himself in great shape for a really long time. From a talent perspective, his claim of being the best ever is probably accurate (although Megatron or Fitz may be even more talented). But Rice was so consistent for so long, it's hard to put anyone above him.
"The plays he took of were the ones he wasn't getting the ball"
As a long suffering Vikings fan, I call B.S. on that comment. He took a lot of plays off when he saw double coverage and he took plays off when Quarterback was in trouble. He also left the game early at least once because he was "tired".
Moss was truely great his first few years, after Criss Carter retired Moss didn't listen to anyone. He became a selfish player and a quitter.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
So Jerry Rice, who had 2 Hall of Famers throwing him the ball, is calling out Moss? He calls out Moss for not winning championships? Last time I checked, when Moss had a QB on the level that Rice had for the better part of his career, Moss was unstoppable. Imagine the numbers he would have had if he had spent his entire career with Brady?
When I think of all time great receivers, Randy Moss just doesn't register with me. Too much baggage. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>The plays he took off were the ones where he wasn't getting the ball. Not saying I condone that attitude, but it didn't contribute to a drop in his numbers. If you want to use it as an reason for putting Rice over him, I'm OK with that.
His last year for each team (when he displayed a piss-poor attitude) is what really kept his numbers down. He'd have another 50-60 catches (putting him well over 1,000), another 10-12 TDs, and another 800-1000 yards receiving if he acted like a professional instead of wearing out his welcome in MIN, OAK, and NE.
His physical abilities (speed, athleticism) dwarfed Rice's. Rice just played in a great system with 2 of the top 3 or 4 QBs of all time, and kept himself in great shape for a really long time. From a talent perspective, his claim of being the best ever is probably accurate (although Megatron or Fitz may be even more talented). But Rice was so consistent for so long, it's hard to put anyone above him. >>
I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but...
<< <i>I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but... >>
Steve Young is the best I've ever seen.
Tabe >>
A matter of opinion but without question in my mind a definate top 5 >>
This. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Moss ain't even in the same league as Jerry Rice. Not even close. No even some what close. >>
Can you explain why you think this?
At the top of both their games Moss was superior to Rice physically and athleticaly, to say its not even close then reinforcing it with not even some what close baffles me.
<< <i>Moss ain't even in the same league as Jerry Rice. Not even close. No even some what close. >>
You're either a Rice fan or someone who despises Moss. To suggest he's not in the same league suggests you're one or the other. Rice benefited from having two hall of fame QBs to play with, and a 49er team loaded with perennial all pros.
In their respective primes, there was no more dangerous receiver than Randy Moss (and I was never a fan of his), but to suggest he wasn't in the same league is to willfully look past the truth that is there.
Rice was a tremendous receiver but definitely had the benefit of playing with two of the greatest QBS tro ever play the game. Put Moss in that position and Rice in Moss' and the numbers would likely be reversed. You cannot discount the impact of the guy feeding you the ball on your career numbers. Personally, I like Rice better as a team player, but to say that Moss is nowhere even close to being as good as Rice was is shortsighted and simply not taking the entire picture into context.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If Moss plays with the likes of Montana/Young he dwarfs the numbers Rice put up. Kinda like if Sanders played behind the line Smith played behind, Sanders would be in the stratosphere compared to anyone else.
Coming in late, but I completely agree with the assertion that Rice benefitted much more from his QB's than Moss did on the whole. Moss gave Cunningham his greatest season as a QB, he helped make a name for Culpepper. Rice played with 2 of the all time greats for the better part of his career. And, when he went to Oakland, it happened to be when Gannon was the #2 rated passer 2 years in a row. Check out Rice's numbers in San Fran after Young went down, for good, in week 3 of 1999. Obviously an argument can be made that Rice is the greatest of all time, based mainly on his stats. He was consistent, disciiplined and without any real weakness. However, anyone trying to say that Moss does not belong in the same breath is, as previously suggested, a Moss hater, a Rice lover, or simply did not watch the 2 of them play.
Emmitt Smith has 3 rings, the rushing record and rushing TD's record along with many other career marks. Does that make him slam dunk better than Sanders, Payton, Simpson or Brown. I'm a huge Cowboy's fan, but even I know that's not the case.
<< <i>Coming in late, but I completely agree with the assertion that Rice benefitted much more from his QB's than Moss did on the whole. Moss gave Cunningham his greatest season as a QB, he helped make a name for Culpepper. Rice played with 2 of the all time greats for the better part of his career. And, when he went to Oakland, it happened to be when Gannon was the #2 rated passer 2 years in a row. Check out Rice's numbers in San Fran after Young went down, for good, in week 3 of 1999. Obviously an argument can be made that Rice is the greatest of all time, based mainly on his stats. He was consistent, disciiplined and without any real weakness. However, anyone trying to say that Moss does not belong in the same breath is, as previously suggested, a Moss hater, a Rice lover, or simply did not watch the 2 of them play.
Emmitt Smith has 3 rings, the rushing record and rushing TD's record along with many other career marks. Does that make him slam dunk better than Sanders, Payton, Simpson or Brown. I'm a huge Cowboy's fan, but even I know that's not the case.
Stats only tell part of the story. >>
Well put and completely accurate...I didn't know Cowboy fans had the ability to be objective, either..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I didn't know Cowboy fans had the ability to be objective, either..
It wasnt always easy to be objective when discussing my 'Boys. However, since the post Aikman period began, a degree of humility has been inevitably shoved down my throat
I disagree with the Sanders Smith comparison. Not because I am a Cowboy fan, but this. The line had nothing to do with Sanders' running. He wasn't a tackle to tackle power runner like Smith. He ran around like a chicken with his head cut off.
I disagree with the Sanders Smith comparison. Not because I am a Cowboy fan
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him.
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close.
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close. >>
Of course Rice's work ethic has a bearing here, if all we were talking about was raw talent, then yes Moss had the most, size(tallest), speed, and hands I have ever seen.
The work ethic spills over onto the field Randy simply dissapeared when the going got tough. Has nothing to do with his off-field behavior or brash statements, but his clubhouse behavior does come into play, it was obvious several of the Vikings key players couldn't stand him. When the going got tough Randy was a quitter. Time and time again.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close. >>
Would Jerry Rice give a half-a$$ed effort in a Super Bowl game...see interception to Reed last night.
You know the baseball statistic "late and close" I'll bet Moss was horrible in those siuations. He did nothing in the 2nd half of the NFC Championship game with the Vikings and he was also in two Super bowls and failed to make an impact.
I was a Moss fan when he first came to Minnesota. His first few years he was awesome. After that he just became a selfish player. How many other players have had the head coach come right out and say "he loses interest if we don't get him involved in the game early"? The RANDY RATIO!
Give me a break.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Actually Moss had one of the biggest catches in the Super Bowl last Sunday night when he went down low to make the reception on the 3rd down play during the drive SF scored their first TD. If SF had punted there, I doubt they'd have ever even made a game of it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Moss is being rated by some here as the best or second best of all time. One or two catches in a big game do not equate to this. Looking at him play AND looking at his stats are two VASTLY different things. He caught a lot of TD passes, but never led the league in any other category.
I see so many people saying if he played with so and so at quarterback he would have been better. How do you know that? In 1998 Randall Cuningham was the highest rated QB in football, In 2000 Duante Culpepper was rated #4, in 2001 Culpepper was 3rd in completion percentage, in 2003 Culpepper was #3 in passer rating and in 2004 Culpepper was #2. Looks like the quarterbacks weren't that bad, also from 1990 until 2001 Chris Carter was the "other" wide out, he might have been a little help as well.
I will admit Moss had two great years in a row where he was the second best WR; 2002 where Marvin Harrison was better and 2003 where Moss was almost as good as Torry Holt.
My point will continue to be Randy was never the player who was able or willing to lead his team, especially in big games in the 2nd half. The truely great ones did.
I for one would like to have seen Randy Moss play for Bud Grant! Bud would not have put up with "Randy being Randy". You might have seen Randy become the best ever!
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
"Randy being Randy" sounds alot like "Manny being Manny" and at the end of the day both guys are idiots who were very talented in their primes, Moss will always be one of the greatest it just depends on how you personally rate your greatest WR's,.
Personally I think Sterling Sharpe was one of the best and not many people will agree with me and it makes no difference whatsoever.
Perk, you wont get any flak from me other that statement.
I was watching some old (i.e. 90's) Packers highlights the other day. No one could cover him. For most of his career they really didnt have anyone else on the other side. The rolled a S over the top all the time and he still beat it. They put him in motion on the goal line and everyone in the stands knew what was coming and he would score. Could make guys miss, drag people along and go deep. Too bad he had the neck injury. Even with that I think he should get some stronger consideration for the HOF. When he was playing he was only second fiddle in the league to one on other WR, and that was Jerry Rice in his prime.
Not many of the WRs that are looking at going in now can even say that.
As for Moss and the HOF. Yes he will get in, but with the way he played or didnt at times in games I woudnt mind seeing the voters pass him over on the first ballot. Who knows they might.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
The people suggesting that Randy isn't in the conversation for best ever seem to take personally his apparent lack of effort, or didn't like his personality. The numbers don't lie - he's clearly in the conversation of the best of all time.
Great players in all sports make the players around them better. Stat builders do not always qualify as great players. I believe Jerry Rice's GREATNESS speaks for itself and I am a diehard Cowboys fan.
<< <i>The people suggesting that Randy isn't in the conversation for best ever seem to take personally his apparent lack of effort, or didn't like his personality. The numbers don't lie - he's clearly in the conversation of the best of all time. >>
Yeah, he never had alligator arms, always gave full effort on plays, never gave up on his teammates, and when he got released from teams, it was *clearly* the GMs' fault.
Randy Moss always has been and always will be the best, of the best, of the best. Period.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Randy Moss was great when he wanted to be great, but no one could bring out the greatness at any cost when they needed him just to be a decoy or heaven forbid block somebody. He was great like Allen Iverson. Unbelievable talent for both and great stats, but like Ray Lewis said " we don't play the game on paper. Allen Iverson maybe Top 25 greatest scores ever, but not top 1000 greatest players in my book. He is like some of the so-called greats, but more like the "BIG C" as a team player. Big C is term for cancer for those who have been fortunate enough not to have a family member diagnosed. T Owens also makes this team, and he thinks he is the greatest receiver of all time. WOW
<< <i>Great players in all sports make the players around them better. >>
Based on the 1998 Vikings and 2007 Patriots, Moss definitely qualifies >>
Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
<< <i>When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
But his play was nothing short of absolutely spectacular while leading the Raiders and Titans.
Oh, wait...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Don't forget his spectacular second stint with the Vikings! >>
Oh yeah. Guess I forgot since he was released a month later.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about
<< <i>Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about >>
So the chicken definitely came first?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about >>
If this were true Moss would have at least two, if not three Super Bowl victories. The fact is Randy Moss is a LOSER! A loser with an incredible amount of physical talent and a resume that includes a lot of yards and touchdowns, but a loser none the less.
"Winners never quit, quitters never win"
Randy Moss = loser.
Joe
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
CNote
Posts: 2,070 ✭
Comments
Sure fire HOF no question about it.
In their primes I say Moss was better but overall career package Rice is the better choice.
His last year for each team (when he displayed a piss-poor attitude) is what really kept his numbers down. He'd have another 50-60 catches (putting him well over 1,000), another 10-12 TDs, and another 800-1000 yards receiving if he acted like a professional instead of wearing out his welcome in MIN, OAK, and NE.
His physical abilities (speed, athleticism) dwarfed Rice's. Rice just played in a great system with 2 of the top 3 or 4 QBs of all time, and kept himself in great shape for a really long time. From a talent perspective, his claim of being the best ever is probably accurate (although Megatron or Fitz may be even more talented). But Rice was so consistent for so long, it's hard to put anyone above him.
As a long suffering Vikings fan, I call B.S. on that comment. He took a lot of plays off when he saw double coverage and he took plays off when Quarterback was in trouble. He also left the game early at least once because he was "tired".
Moss was truely great his first few years, after Criss Carter retired Moss didn't listen to anyone. He became a selfish player and a quitter.
Joe
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Son, you be hard workin' man
And momma she once told me
Son, you do the best you can
Then one day I met a man
He came to me and said
Hard work good and hard work fine
But first take care of head.
<< <i>The plays he took off were the ones where he wasn't getting the ball. Not saying I condone that attitude, but it didn't contribute to a drop in his numbers. If you want to use it as an reason for putting Rice over him, I'm OK with that.
His last year for each team (when he displayed a piss-poor attitude) is what really kept his numbers down. He'd have another 50-60 catches (putting him well over 1,000), another 10-12 TDs, and another 800-1000 yards receiving if he acted like a professional instead of wearing out his welcome in MIN, OAK, and NE.
His physical abilities (speed, athleticism) dwarfed Rice's. Rice just played in a great system with 2 of the top 3 or 4 QBs of all time, and kept himself in great shape for a really long time. From a talent perspective, his claim of being the best ever is probably accurate (although Megatron or Fitz may be even more talented). But Rice was so consistent for so long, it's hard to put anyone above him. >>
I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but...
<< <i>I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but... >>
Steve Young is the best I've ever seen.
Tabe
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but... >>
Steve Young is the best I've ever seen.
Tabe >>
A matter of opinion but without question in my mind a definate top 5
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wouldn't say Steve Young was one of the best 3 or 4 QBs of all time, but... >>
Steve Young is the best I've ever seen.
Tabe >>
A matter of opinion but without question in my mind a definate top 5 >>
This. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The waiting list to see Mr freud
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Moss best ever? He did have more raw talent than anyone I've seen. He just didn't put it to use all the time.
I'll leave Steve Young to another topic but Tabe is on the right track.
<< <i>Moss ain't even in the same league as Jerry Rice. Not even close. No even some what close. >>
Can you explain why you think this?
At the top of both their games Moss was superior to Rice physically and athleticaly, to say its not even close then reinforcing it with not even some what close baffles me.
<< <i>Moss ain't even in the same league as Jerry Rice. Not even close. No even some what close. >>
You're either a Rice fan or someone who despises Moss. To suggest he's not in the same league suggests you're one or the other. Rice benefited from having two hall of fame QBs to play with, and a 49er team loaded with perennial all pros.
In their respective primes, there was no more dangerous receiver than Randy Moss (and I was never a fan of his), but to suggest he wasn't in the same league is to willfully look past the truth that is there.
numbers would likely be reversed. You cannot discount the impact of the guy feeding you the ball on your career numbers. Personally, I like Rice better as a team player, but to
say that Moss is nowhere even close to being as good as Rice was is shortsighted and simply not taking the entire picture into context.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Emmitt Smith has 3 rings, the rushing record and rushing TD's record along with many other career marks. Does that make him slam dunk better than Sanders, Payton, Simpson or Brown. I'm a huge Cowboy's fan, but even I know that's not the case.
Stats only tell part of the story.
<< <i>Coming in late, but I completely agree with the assertion that Rice benefitted much more from his QB's than Moss did on the whole. Moss gave Cunningham his greatest season as a QB, he helped make a name for Culpepper. Rice played with 2 of the all time greats for the better part of his career. And, when he went to Oakland, it happened to be when Gannon was the #2 rated passer 2 years in a row. Check out Rice's numbers in San Fran after Young went down, for good, in week 3 of 1999. Obviously an argument can be made that Rice is the greatest of all time, based mainly on his stats. He was consistent, disciiplined and without any real weakness. However, anyone trying to say that Moss does not belong in the same breath is, as previously suggested, a Moss hater, a Rice lover, or simply did not watch the 2 of them play.
Emmitt Smith has 3 rings, the rushing record and rushing TD's record along with many other career marks. Does that make him slam dunk better than Sanders, Payton, Simpson or Brown. I'm a huge Cowboy's fan, but even I know that's not the case.
Stats only tell part of the story. >>
Well put and completely accurate...I didn't know Cowboy fans had the ability to be objective, either..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It wasnt always easy to be objective when discussing my 'Boys. However, since the post Aikman period began, a degree of humility has been inevitably shoved down my throat
He was just not as good as Smith....period!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close.
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close. >>
Of course Rice's work ethic has a bearing here, if all we were talking about was raw talent, then yes Moss had the most, size(tallest), speed, and hands I have ever seen.
The work ethic spills over onto the field Randy simply dissapeared when the going got tough. Has nothing to do with his off-field behavior or brash statements, but his clubhouse behavior does come into play, it was obvious several of the Vikings key players couldn't stand him. When the going got tough Randy was a quitter. Time and time again.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no comparison. Rice was known for his incredible work ethic. He was always dressed and ready hours before every game he played. He was a straight up guy, he kept his mouth shut and just played. He led by example. Randy Moss was considered a cancer on most of the teams he played on. That is why he bounced around the league. Randy also had great quarterbacks throwing to him but his attitude got in the way. Sorry but its really an insult to Jerry Rice to compare Randy to him. >>
First, Rice's work ethic has no bearing on this conversation, but suggesting that he was any more dedicated to his craft than a vast majority of pro players is as disingenuous as it gets. It's the same tired argument the talking heads have trotted out in trying to prop up Tebow. EVERY pro is prepared, EVERY pro works hard. So what if Moss talked? His game backed up his talk. Secondly, Moss had great quarterbacks throwing to him? Other than Brady (and we saw how amazing his time in NE was), what hall of fame QBs were throwing to Moss? Rice had 13 years of Hall of Fame QBs throwing to him, and three more with All Pro Jeff Garcia. That's 16 years for him to accumulate numbers.
The people suggesting that there's no comparison are people who dislike brash players - period. The numbers (and the objective eye test) will tell any real sports fan they were actually very close. >>
Would Jerry Rice give a half-a$$ed effort in a Super Bowl game...see interception to Reed last night.
I was a Moss fan when he first came to Minnesota. His first few years he was awesome. After that he just became a selfish player. How many other players have had the head coach come right out and say "he loses interest if we don't get him involved in the game early"? The RANDY RATIO!
Give me a break.
Joe
<< <i>Moss Maybe in top 10. But when was that? When he played for my raiders he was at the top of the list.
The waiting list to see Mr freud >>
When Moss was on the Raiders, he was the best player on the team
Rice is clearly the best receiver ever. The real question and much more interesting comparison is second best: Moss or Hutson
<< <i>
<< <i>Moss Maybe in top 10. But when was that? When he played for my raiders he was at the top of the list.
The waiting list to see Mr freud >>
When Moss was on the Raiders, he was the best player on the team
Rice is clearly the best receiver ever. The real question and much more interesting comparison is second best: Moss or Hutson >>
Hutson was the greatest of his Era.
Not the second best in history, I mean lets not get crazy here we already have heard some assinine comments.
during the drive SF scored their first TD. If SF had punted there, I doubt they'd have ever even made a game of it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I see so many people saying if he played with so and so at quarterback he would have been better. How do you know that? In 1998 Randall Cuningham was the highest rated QB in football, In 2000 Duante Culpepper was rated #4, in 2001 Culpepper was 3rd in completion percentage, in 2003 Culpepper was #3 in passer rating and in 2004 Culpepper was #2. Looks like the quarterbacks weren't that bad, also from 1990 until 2001 Chris Carter was the "other" wide out, he might have been a little help as well.
I will admit Moss had two great years in a row where he was the second best WR; 2002 where Marvin Harrison was better and 2003 where Moss was almost as good as Torry Holt.
My point will continue to be Randy was never the player who was able or willing to lead his team, especially in big games in the 2nd half. The truely great ones did.
I for one would like to have seen Randy Moss play for Bud Grant! Bud would not have put up with "Randy being Randy". You might have seen Randy become the best ever!
Joe
Personally I think Sterling Sharpe was one of the best and not many people will agree with me and it makes no difference whatsoever.
I was watching some old (i.e. 90's) Packers highlights the other day. No one could cover him. For most of his career they really didnt have anyone else on the other side. The rolled a S over the top all the time and he still beat it. They put him in motion on the goal line and everyone in the stands knew what was coming and he would score. Could make guys miss, drag people along and go deep. Too bad he had the neck injury. Even with that I think he should get some stronger consideration for the HOF. When he was playing he was only second fiddle in the league to one on other WR, and that was Jerry Rice in his prime.
Not many of the WRs that are looking at going in now can even say that.
As for Moss and the HOF. Yes he will get in, but with the way he played or didnt at times in games I woudnt mind seeing the voters pass him over on the first ballot. Who knows they might.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
GREATNESS speaks for itself and I am a diehard Cowboys fan.
<< <i>The people suggesting that Randy isn't in the conversation for best ever seem to take personally his apparent lack of effort, or didn't like his personality. The numbers don't lie - he's clearly in the conversation of the best of all time. >>
Yeah, he never had alligator arms, always gave full effort on plays, never gave up on his teammates, and when he got released from teams, it was *clearly* the GMs' fault.
Randy Moss always has been and always will be the best, of the best, of the best. Period.
<< <i>Great players in all sports make the players around them better. >>
Based on the 1998 Vikings and 2007 Patriots, Moss definitely qualifies
<< <i>
<< <i>Great players in all sports make the players around them better. >>
Based on the 1998 Vikings and 2007 Patriots, Moss definitely qualifies >>
Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked.
<< <i>When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
But his play was nothing short of absolutely spectacular while leading the Raiders and Titans.
Oh, wait...
<< <i>Don't forget his spectacular second stint with the Vikings! >>
Get your 84 jerseys out, LMAO
<< <i>Don't forget his spectacular second stint with the Vikings! >>
Oh yeah. Guess I forgot since he was released a month later.
<< <i>Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about
<< <i>
<< <i>Absolutely correct! When Randy was surrounded by great players his performance was much better. When he was asked to lead teams that weren't loaded he sucked. >>
And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about >>
So the chicken definitely came first?
<< <i>
<< <i>And when other great players were surrounded by Moss, their performance was much better. Very few receivers in history we can say that about >>
If this were true Moss would have at least two, if not three Super Bowl victories. The fact is Randy Moss is a LOSER! A loser with an incredible amount of physical talent and a resume that includes a lot of yards and touchdowns, but a loser none the less.
"Winners never quit, quitters never win"
Randy Moss = loser.
Joe